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TLJ Resistance X-Wing Pilots - Briefing Room (proposal)
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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: TLJ Resistance X-Wing Pilots - Briefing Room (proposal) Reply with quote

In the interest of expanding the range of troopable pilot options, Aquadrazi and I would like to propose the following standard for the stripped down version of the Resistance X-wing pilot uniform seen in the briefing room in The Last Jedi, based on the existing standard for generic TFA X-wing pilots. Supporting images will be provided in the comments section below:

1. Flightsuit:
• A red-orange/blood orange, one-piece jumpsuit in textured material similar to cordura is worn. The texture and color of the fabric should be as close to screen accurate as possible. (As with TFA generic pilots, neither Original Trilogy Rebel pilot orange nor B-Wing pilot red are acceptable for approval)
• The suit closes with a zipper running down the center front from the groin to the base of the collar. Zipper is hidden by a placket. Placket must open towards the wearer’s right.
• The suit has a standing collar made from tight pleats or ruffle elastic. The color of the pleats/ruffles may be either the same as the jumpsuit or slightly darker. Collar is approximately 2” to 2.5” in height. Collar is mandarin style, and must be capable of closing with three to four flat hooks in silver or black, but may be worn either open or closed.
• A panel of pleating or ruffle elastic runs from the neck down to the shoulder and arm, ending at the ends of the sleeves. Width and color of panel matches the collar.
• A top-stitched seam is present on the bottom of the yoke of the suit, in both the front and the back.
• The suit should have no visible zippers, snaps, velcro, or waistband. Waist seams are permitted, as are additional hidden fastenings.
• A loop is attached to the placket on the chest of the suit, at an appropriate height from which to hang the chest box. Loop should lay flat on the placket, and may be either the same color as the jumpsuit, or gray.
• The legs of the jumpsuit are covered by a chap made of the same material from the thigh down. This chap has seams on both the inseam and outseam, aligned with the pant underneath. The chap is flat on the top, and attaches partway down the hip, notably below the waist. It then curves sharply down, leaving the rear and groin of the main jumpsuit layer uncovered. In addition to being sewn to the main jumpsuit along the flat top edge, the chap may be attached along the inseam and/or in a hidden seam under the knee, which is covered by the webbing. The chap should not be attached along the curved upper seams. OPTIONAL: chap may end below the knee at the location of the webbing, provided that the lower hem of the chap is stitched down to the pant leg at this height with no visible top stitching.
• A strap of dark gray webbing approximately 1” wide runs around each leg just under the knee pockets. The ends are sewn into the inseam of the chap. Each strap has a gunmetal or silver gray webbing slider. Straps must either fit tightly to the leg or be sewn down, and must not droop. Sliders must be metallic in appearance. OPTIONAL: Sliders may show faint remnants of dark green paint.
• A strap of dark gray webbing is attached to the flight suit across the lower back, ending at the side seams. This strap is adjustable, and is closed by a black side-release buckle.
• The flight suit legs should extend to the top of the boot, and should be either straight hemmed or gathered with elastic.
• The sleeves should extend to the slightly beyond the wrist, and should give the appearance of being straight hemmed. An optional inner fitted cuff of gray ribbed knit may be present.
• The suit has a looped strap running over the pleated panel on the upper left bicep. This strap must have three loops, each about 1 inch in circumference.
• The jumpsuit has a total of five pockets, all of which are made of the same material as the jumpsuit and are attached to the chaps.
-- Pockets 1 and 2: A rectangular cargo pocket with lid is present on the right and left knee respectively.
-- Pocket 3: A larger rectangular cargo pocket, above and to the side of pocket 2, is present on the outer part of the left thigh. This pocket has no lid. Pocket 3 has a fold in the top section, and a flat rectangular loop is installed just above its opening. Pocket 3 may have a ladder-shaped embroidery detail.
-- Pocket 4: A flat, rounded pocket with a horizontal, slit-shaped opening is present directly above pocket 1 on the right thigh.
-- Pocket 5: A rectangular cargo pocket with lid overlaps with the outer flat edge of pocket 4.
• OPTIONAL: The flightsuit may be heavily weathered, including notable dirt and grease stains.

2. Flight harness:
• The belt is heavily textured medium/dark grey webbing with a screen-accurate ribbing pattern. The belt has a piped webbing border at the top and bottom edges, and a heavy metal roll-pin buckle in the front. Free end of the belt is tucked underneath the main part of the belt.
• An ejection harness made from wide gray flat webbing loops over the belt in the front on either side of the buckle and hangs down on the sides to somewhere between the knee and mid-calf. An additional strap of the webbing hangs down from the center back of the belt, where it attaches to the main strap. The shade of gray of the webbing should be matching or darker than the belt.
-- This back strap is looped at both the top and bottom
-- The loops are secured either via stitching or via one or two chicago screws.
-- The bottom loop may be flat or triangular.
-- The back strap may hang to anywhere from the bottom of the rear to the lower thigh, approximately 8-18 inches in length.
• A heavy metal roll-pin buckle is installed at the base of each of the two loops in the front, and the ends of the loops are secured with silver chicago screws or rivets.
• Small black or gray pull tabs are attached to the bottom of the roll-pin buckles on the harness.
• 2 L-shaped silver/light-grey paddle brackets hang from the top of the ejection webbing where it loops over the belt. Paddle brackets should be metallic in appearance. Brackets are attached to ejection webbing with two silver chicago screws or rivets.

3. Signal flares & leg bandoleer:
• A bandoleer of black or very dark gray webbing is worn over the jumpsuit leg. Bandoleer may be work on either the right or left leg.
• Bandoleer may be worn just above the knee pocket, directly on top of the knee pocket, or just below the knee pocket.
• Bandolier must have 4-5 loops for flares.
• 4-5 screen-accurate flares must worn in bandolier, “cap” side up. Flares should be silver in color and have a metallic appearance.
• Bandolier may either be a seperate item fastened with non-visible fasteners such as hidden velcro or snaps, or may be sewn onto the jumpsuit.

4. Boots: Screen accurate (2 Options):
OPTION 1: Very dark grey/black rubber or rubber-like boots with screen accurate ridged surface and tread details. The boots are only visible from the ankle down, so upper details may vary, but no laces, snaps, velcro, or other fasteners may be visible.
OPTION 2:
Very dark grey/black rubber with leather-or-rubber-like spats covering the front and attached to the boot with 2 straps per side.

5. OPTIONAL: Undershirt
• If collar is worn open, a plain undershirt in black, gray, or white may be visible.
• The undershirt should have a high round color and no visible ornamentation.

6. OPTIONAL: Rank bar:
• Rank bar, if worn, must be screen accurate, and must be worn on the chest of the flight suit on the left-hand side
• Dimensions are approximately 3 inches wide by 1.5 inches tall
• Base color is metallic silver
• Rank bar has five strips on its right hand side. In order from right to left, these are a thick red stripe, a narrow white stripe, a narrow red stripe, a wide white stripe, and a red pin stripe.
• Rank bar must have one of the following canonical rank insignia: General (inverted lowercase y with a dot), Colonel (inverted lowercase y without dot), Commander (upright v), Major (inverted v), Captain (vertical stripe), or lieutenant (dot).
• Rank bar markings must be army red, not navy blue.


Last edited by Baris_Alrisul () on Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:37 pm; edited 11 times in total
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Aquadrazi ()
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote












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BigFatCat (Geoff Hawley)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the references, you can also see optional life vests and chest boxes with hoses and holsters. The combat-ready pilot would then only have the helmet and gloves on top of these.

You can also see more than one pilot with a scarf inside the collar. That's no bad thing to include as it could make this costume more comfortable. Only those with life vests do appear to wear those.

If you're looking for an encompassing standard for the BR pilot, I agree with the minimum you've given but I would suggest that the TLJ BR standard also allows the extra options:

Life vest with chest box, TLJ hose and leg connector. Optional cream/tan neck scarf.
Hip or thigh holster for Glie-44.

Screen references only show red Army rank badges. The resistance Starfighter Corps would suggest as being a naval affiliation yet nothing on screen shows a pilot with a blue rank. It'd be a nice option to offer unfortunately not provable but plausible.
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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for the feedback! To address your points:

BigFatCat wrote:
Given the references, you can also see optional life vests and chest boxes with hoses and holsters. The combat-ready pilot would then only have the helmet and gloves on top of these.

You can also see more than one pilot with a scarf inside the collar. That's no bad thing to include as it could make this costume more comfortable. Only those with life vests do appear to wear those.

If you're looking for an encompassing standard for the BR pilot, I agree with the minimum you've given but I would suggest that the TLJ BR standard also allows the extra options:

Life vest with chest box, TLJ hose and leg connector. Optional cream/tan neck scarf.
Hip or thigh holster for Glie-44.


We absolutely agree those items are present in the briefing room. However, those are pretty much all the items that are required for a TLJ combat X-wing pilot. We are currently working on that standard too, but don't have a version ready to post yet, since we are still checking some of our references for details of that. Therefore, rather than include those as optional briefing room items, we suggest those be approvable under a forthcoming TLJ X-wing pilot combat standard.

BigFatCat wrote:
Screen references only show red Army rank badges. The resistance Starfighter Corps would suggest as being a naval affiliation yet nothing on screen shows a pilot with a blue rank. It'd be a nice option to offer unfortunately not provable but plausible.


We agree that only army red is approvable for X-wing pilots. That is why we specify that only army red rank bars are approvable, and not navy blue. Since the rank bar was not an element required under previous standards, we wish to make sure that folks were clear about which of the canonical rank bars was allowable.
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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A member of this detachment who contacted me on facebook pointed out that the shot that which we thought was justifying the lack of penloop and the lack of directionality about which way the zipper placket opens is actually a mirrored shot. I have therefore made the following edits to the proposed standard:
1. The pen loop strap is being moved from optional to required
2. The direction of the placket opening is now specified as being on the wearer’s right.
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that your proposal is sounding good so far, and it's definitely helpful so thank you for writing this up.

A few things I might mention:

-You might change the "red/dark orange" color description to more of a color name as it sounds like the color could be red or dark orange. Perhaps just change it to "red-orange" or something similar?

-The upward arch of the chaps should sit roughly at the side center of the costumer's leg (on the outside of the leg), and there should be a seam going down the inside and outside leg of the chap.

-The chaps should end around two or three inches below the knee. Directly below the bottom of the chap is where the 1" webbing is sewn. The ends of this strap are sewn into the inside leg seam of the pants. The slide on the front center of these chaps are silver metal slides instead of gunmetal gray, at least in the TFA version. I think that they're the same for the TLJ version as well.

-The ladder stitch on the open cargo pocket should probably be required, I think all of the suits have had them in the movies.

-You might mention that the belt in the movies is a dyed PLCE belt. It just might help a reader imagine what the belt is supposed to look like. Though a replica is definitely fine. Smile

-The ejection harness webbing should be charcoal gray in color.

-There should be a pin tuck on the front and back of the suit, a few inches below the collar.

-The "boots with spats" are actually Ranger supersized five buckle overboots with a strip of black leather or rubber running down the front, covering the metal buckles. But I mentioned that to you already. Something to note, though, is that for this style of boot the pants legs would need to be hung over the boots like in TFA, but the mucker boot style could have the legs tucked in or hung over.



Definitely a good start on these, though! Very Happy
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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for taking a look at this, Alex! Here are my thoughts on your comments.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:


-You might change the "red/dark orange" color description to more of a color name as it sounds like the color could be red or dark orange. Perhaps just change it to "red-orange" or something similar?


I agree entirely. Editing the proposal to saying red-orange/blood orange instead.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:


-The upward arch of the chaps should sit roughly at the side center of the costumer's leg (on the outside of the leg), and there should be a seam going down the inside and outside leg of the chap.



I shall add the edit about the seams. I am not sure that description of the arches makes sense, though. The flat upper edge of the chap is definitely centered over outer seam, but the arches don't really touch the center of the outer leg. Instead, the exact placement varies on the costumer, but it's closer to halfway around the hip in front and a third of the way around the hip in back.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

-The chaps should end around two or three inches below the knee. Directly below the bottom of the chap is where the 1" webbing is sewn. The ends of this strap are sewn into the inside leg seam of the pants. The slide on the front center of these chaps are silver metal slides instead of gunmetal gray, at least in the TFA version. I think that they're the same for the TLJ version as well.


Adding the part about the webbing being sewn in the seam on the inner thigh to standard.

We don't actually have evidence of the chap ending. There is one shot of Poe from TFA that shows a seam at the webbing height which may indicate an end to the chap, or may just indicate the chap is made of two pieces of fabric. Watching the chaps in motion with pilots running in both TFA and TLJ, I am inclined to believe the latter, rather than the former.

Maybe it's just the lighting, but slides really look more like gunmetal than silver to me in the shots I've seen. Maybe we can allow either silver or gunmetal?

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

-The ladder stitch on the open cargo pocket should probably be required, I think all of the suits have had them in the movies.


We thought so too, but when we went to find screen shots, we started finding a whole bunch of pilots that didn't have that stitching. Aquadrazi has been in charge of our reference image collection for this. I'll see if I can get her to post some of the ones we found who didn't have it.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

-You might mention that the belt in the movies is a dyed PLCE belt. It just might help a reader imagine what the belt is supposed to look like. Though a replica is definitely fine. Smile


I am reluctant to specify specific brands/manufacturers for things, lest an overly diligent judge in the future use that having a replica as a reason to deny an applicant later. I know the current judges would not do that, but I have seen it be a problem in other detachments.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

-The ejection harness webbing should be charcoal gray in color.


Depending on lighting, we see everything from charcoal gray to medium gray. I am inclined to allow any gray darker than the belt, for this reason.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

-There should be a pin tuck on the front and back of the suit, a few inches below the collar.


This does not seem to be universal. Some pilots (mostly human men) have it. Others do not. Aquadrazi and I felt it should not be required for this reason.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

-The "boots with spats" are actually Ranger supersized five buckle overboots with a strip of black leather or rubber running down the front, covering the metal buckles. But I mentioned that to you already. Something to note, though, is that for this style of boot the pants legs would need to be hung over the boots like in TFA, but the mucker boot style could have the legs tucked in or hung over.


Yeah, the language describing this boot option definitely needs revising. Could you suggest good language to put in for that section?
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Aquadrazi ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For clarification: see Aquadrazi's post for examples of topless cargo pockets missing the ladder stitching.
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Aquadrazi ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For clarification on the pocket pin tucking, I don't clearly see it on this example of a generic pilot from the TLJ visual dictionary. I am currently looking for more full length, on screen examples of TLJ pilots to see if this was an omission for the TLJ pilot suits versus the TFA pilot suits.
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tereshkova2001 ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks very accurate to me, and I think it's a valuable standard to have. It's not only canon, it's a very practical and mobile costume version, which makes it a good choice for convention staffing.
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that in the pictures posted that the ladder stitch is missing on some suits. You're right, optional is fine for that. And yeah, I think it would be fine to approve either silver or gunmetal buckles for the 1" leg straps, as long as they're metallic and not a flat plasticy color. Smile

Charcoal gray seems to be the most common color for the harness, and the most readily available at webbing supply shops, but yeah, as long as the straps are darker than the belt I think that it would be okay. To allow for a little wiggle room the harness could be a similar color to the belt, too, which allows for room just in case the applicant applies a little too much dye to the belt... Just as long as the harness isn't a lighter color than the belt. But maybe that's getting too complicated. Razz

As for the chaps ending, it is actually seen in references. Granted they're TFA references but the TLJ suit patterns are very similar to the TFA pattern, just with a few minor differences. And seeing as we know that the chaps end on TFA suits it's probably safe to assume that they could, or should, on TLJ suits as well.


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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:
I see that in the pictures posted that the ladder stitch is missing on some suits. You're right, optional is fine for that. And yeah, I think it would be fine to approve either silver or gunmetal buckles for the 1" leg straps, as long as they're metallic and not a flat plasticy color. Smile


Awesome, I have edited the language to require that sliders be metallic.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

Charcoal gray seems to be the most common color for the harness, and the most readily available at webbing supply shops, but yeah, as long as the straps are darker than the belt I think that it would be okay. To allow for a little wiggle room the harness could be a similar color to the belt, too, which allows for room just in case the applicant applies a little too much dye to the belt... Just as long as the harness isn't a lighter color than the belt. But maybe that's getting too complicated. Razz


I agree that it definitely should not be lighter. Updated language now states "matching or darker than" for the shade of gray.

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:

As for the chaps ending, it is actually seen in references. Granted they're TFA references but the TLJ suit patterns are very similar to the TFA pattern, just with a few minor differences. And seeing as we know that the chaps end on TFA suits it's probably safe to assume that they could, or should, on TLJ suits as well.


We definitely see that seam under the strap on Poe. Aquadrazi and I spent a long time staring at that seam, and equivalent location on other pilots. We could only ever find that seam on Poe, though. Also, I still think it's very possible, given that the knees don't seem to pull unevenly with hip movement, that the seam is just the chap continuing as a second piece of fabric, as opposed to the chap ending and being sewn down on the pant. That also makes a lot more sense in terms of construction, since the seam is not topstitched. If that is, in fact, the end of the chap, then that means, in order to create that appearance, you have to sew the bottom of the chap to to the leg before you close it, close the leg, turn the pants right side out, close the chap, pull that right side out, and then stitch the top edge on to a closed pant leg. That seems a lot less likely in a mass-produced garment than one where you sew a pants leg as normal, sew a chap as normal, and then attached the two together.

Now, I think it's reasonably to say that the chaps MAY end at the knee, as long as they are stitched down. I have edited the language of the chap standard to allow for this option.
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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After discussion with several other pilots at a troop today, I am adding the following optional items to the proposed standard:

— Jumpsuit may be heavily weathered, including notable dirt and grease staining

— If collar is open, a plain undershirt with a high, round neck may be visible. This shirt should be black, gray, or white.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this image from TFA? The hoses are tucked in the top of the chaps.



Looking over this I'm noticing the differences between TLJ briefing room Poe and the generic pilots!

On the screen used TLJ Poe flight suit at NYCC 2017, his lower leg buckle sliders were more silver than gun metal, and his leg flare belt was much more of a medium gray that dark or black.



Is anyone starting a TFA briefing room Poe draft crl? Not sure if I missed it. I'm happy to work (or help work) on that since I already did a bunch of research on that when I was working on my husband's Poe.
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