Using toys/dolls as secondary references???

[LeiaAurora ()]

So question for the judges and the LMO. Can we use dolls/action figures etc as secondary references if we are unable to get a full front/full back from a film/cartoon/comic etc?

I was discussing the FoD Pilot Padme with another member and lamented that there wasn’t a full shot from the cartoon to use as a reference. She brought up the fact that there is a doll that shows the full costume.

Would this be an acceptable reference as long as it is accompanied by what is shown in the cartoon or is this not something we should be using?

Please see reference below.


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In progress/submitted: Padme Amidala Deleted Scene/X Wing Pilot/Clone Wars Padme (maroon vest)
"This is a Rebellion, isn't it? I rebel."

[Ritin Kornas ()]

It seems to me that this costume is just AOTC padmé pilot, with 2 modifications.
http://newsite.rebellegion.com/padme-amidala-naboo-fighter-pilot-episode-ii-attack-of-the-clones/

And that the doll is actually an AOTC doll reused and not Force of Destiny, despite the title and packaging. Why do I say that, because the helmet of the doll is clearly the one she wears in AOTC and not the one from FOD.

The changes you can see between the FOD clip and the AOTC version are helmet, and gloves. She doesn't wear any in FOD.

The helmet can be seen from side in the clip (see here to find it https://www.facebook.com/StarWars/videos/1679960065388921/ ) and as such, it clearly appear to be an standard TPM naboo pilot helmet.
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/0/0a/Bravo_5.png/revision/latest?cb=20131112165220[/img]

More pics of the doll for the LCJ team



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[rab96 (Becca)]

Ritin,

I contest that it is just reused. Padmé does in fact wear gloves in the FoD short.

[img]PadmeStarfighterStunt by Becca, on Flickr[/img]

[img]Screen Shot 2018-01-21 at 10.04.36 AM by Becca, on Flickr[/img]

[img]Screen Shot 2018-01-21 at 10.04.00 AM by Becca, on Flickr[/img]

As these photos show, her hands are definitely not the color of her skin tone. So I believe she is wearing gloves.

Another giveaway to it being an FoD doll and not just a reused version of Ep2 Action Figure would be the boots.

Ep2 Action Figure

[img]Padme Pilot Action Figure by Becca, on Flickr[/img]

FoD Doll

[img]Padme Pilot FOD Doll by Becca, on Flickr[/img]

There are clear differences in the boots, one has the silver/metal looking buckles atop her feet unlike in the movie and action figure, where they are a piece of leather.

Actual Ep2 Costume Photo

[img]PadmePilot Actual Costume by Becca, on Flickr[/img]

I am also the other member she was mentioning looking into this costume.
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[Ritin Kornas ()]

Good catch for the gloves ! The brown is just so clear (on both the video and the figures) I mistook it for the skin

But don't get me wrong for the reuse. As far as I know this line of dolls don't have ep2 padmé anyway, the reuse was more in the sense they might have prepare a doll for ep2 but rebranded here last minute as FOD, because you must recognize it, the helmet is wrong for FOD but exactly the one of ep2.

Regarding the boots, they are the same model, you have the same "flaps" on the side of the tibias. The silver plate is the same than the leather one, just a different color
So, nothing from the doll is specific except colors. That's why I say it's a reuse

In the end, that could even play in your favor I would say, as all the elements can be clearly identified (with potential color change) to those of ep2 except the helmet which is regular naboo pilot ep1, it means you can get 360 of every elements into play.

Personally I would love to see this validated, specially But I'm not a judge or LMO. Also, could be an easy made standard as we would need only to copy paste the ep2 standard, and naboo pilot standard for the helmet.
The best being to merge the two standards the same way than endor leia and briefing leia, or clone wars and ep3 mon mothma given the small differences.

PS : I'm staying curious about the hairstyle.


edit : oh and I encourage you to do them would love to see them !
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[ladysolo14 ()]

Right now the LMO team is putting a hold on approving the Forces of Destiny costumes. A lot of them are simplified versions of the costumes we see in the movie. On top of that the dolls and the cartoon versions do not match and the doll versions actually have more detail than the cartoon versions. We are attempting to determine the best way to proceed with these costumes, if at all.

[LeiaAurora ()]

I can understand not using a doll as those can change and not be a match to what is seen on screen. However, if we have a full front/back/left/right from the cartoon, that should still work, correct?
Being a somewhat new member, I’m not sure how the standards were written for cartoon costume from “Clone Wars” or “Rebels”. Is it the same as a film/television costume or are other things taken in to account?
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Costume Mentor
In progress/submitted: Padme Amidala Deleted Scene/X Wing Pilot/Clone Wars Padme (maroon vest)
"This is a Rebellion, isn't it? I rebel."

[rab96 (Becca)]

It's understood that if we don't have full shots of a 360 of the character that it can't be approved, which I can see why this Pilot suit couldn't be.

But back to "simplified movie versions" of the costumes, the Clone Wars tv series uses these a lot, i.e. Padmé's Handmaiden Battle Gown from E1, Anakin and Obi-Wan's jedi wear towards the end of the series. Also in Rebels the TKs, TBs, etc are also simplified and correct me if I am wrong, are those not accepted in the 501st? And it is to my knowledge that the Clones in the 501st can only be animated now and not the realistic ones?

I am also a new member so I am not familiar with how the standards were written and/or new standards can be written.
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[Kylo Ren (Dawn Bright)]

[Ritin Kornas ()]

So given your arguments, I got 3 questions :

In what does a The Clone Wars clone trooper is not a simplified/stylized ep2 clone trooper ?

In what is an Rebel Captain from Star Wars Miniatures, not a Captain Antilles with slight color variations that we could input to the paint ?

In what is an ARC trooper from Clone Wars (miniseries) not a simplified/stylized version of the comics arc troopers (which is I guess the base for the "realistic" version of it?


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[Kylo Ren (Dawn Bright)]

[Lora Skywalker ()]

As I see it, the problem with the dolls are that they don't exactly match the FoD references. As pointed out by Thibaut the helmet is completely different. The collar height also chances. I'm sure there's other things, but I haven't studied it in detail. So that would prevent the dolls from being used as secondary references.
If you have a highly detailed figurine of a costume, and it's clear that the details match what can be seen in the primary references, then yes, that could be used as a secondary reference. That have been done before, but it have to match up. Otherwise it will end up a mess.

And I think Dawn (despite saying she doesn't know hard parts) hits the nail on the head; the armor can be stylized, but fabric can't. So you'd need proof that it's a new and different version of the costume and not just a simplified one, since we can't do that stylized style with fabric and ourselves. Would be cool if we could, but not physically possible.

I guess in the end it will most likely come down to what are new versions of the character's costumes and what is just simplified versions of the existing costumes.
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