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LeiaAurora () Active Legion Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2016 Posts: 490 Location: Brea, California Medals: None
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:22 am Post subject: Using toys/dolls as secondary references???
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So question for the judges and the LMO. Can we use dolls/action figures etc as secondary references if we are unable to get a full front/full back from a film/cartoon/comic etc?
I was discussing the FoD Pilot Padme with another member and lamented that there wasn’t a full shot from the cartoon to use as a reference. She brought up the fact that there is a doll that shows the full costume.
Would this be an acceptable reference as long as it is accompanied by what is shown in the cartoon or is this not something we should be using?
Please see reference below.
 _________________
In progress/planning: Marvel Comics Leia, Endor Leia, Tatooine Poncho Padme & Flame Handmaiden Padme
"This is a Rebellion, isn't it? I rebel." |
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Ritin Kornas () Helvetica Base CO


Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 608 Location: Switzerland Medals: None
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject:
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It seems to me that this costume is just AOTC padmé pilot, with 2 modifications.
http://newsite.rebellegion.com/padme-amidala-naboo-fighter-pilot-episode-ii-attack-of-the-clones/
And that the doll is actually an AOTC doll reused and not Force of Destiny, despite the title and packaging. Why do I say that, because the helmet of the doll is clearly the one she wears in AOTC and not the one from FOD.
The changes you can see between the FOD clip and the AOTC version are helmet, and gloves. She doesn't wear any in FOD.
The helmet can be seen from side in the clip (see here to find it https://www.facebook.com/StarWars/videos/1679960065388921/ ) and as such, it clearly appear to be an standard TPM naboo pilot helmet.
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/0/0a/Bravo_5.png/revision/latest?cb=20131112165220[/img]
More pics of the doll for the LCJ team
 _________________ CO Rebel Legion Helvetica Base (serving Switzerland)
Member of the RL Galactic Senate Council |
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rab96 () Active Legion Member

Joined: 07 Nov 2016 Posts: 119 Location: Greenville, SC Medals: None
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:32 pm Post subject:
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Ritin,
I contest that it is just reused. Padmé does in fact wear gloves in the FoD short.
[img] PadmeStarfighterStunt by Becca, on Flickr[/img]
[img] Screen Shot 2018-01-21 at 10.04.36 AM by Becca, on Flickr[/img]
[img] Screen Shot 2018-01-21 at 10.04.00 AM by Becca, on Flickr[/img]
As these photos show, her hands are definitely not the color of her skin tone. So I believe she is wearing gloves.
Another giveaway to it being an FoD doll and not just a reused version of Ep2 Action Figure would be the boots.
Ep2 Action Figure
[img] Padme Pilot Action Figure by Becca, on Flickr[/img]
FoD Doll
[img] Padme Pilot FOD Doll by Becca, on Flickr[/img]
There are clear differences in the boots, one has the silver/metal looking buckles atop her feet unlike in the movie and action figure, where they are a piece of leather.
Actual Ep2 Costume Photo
[img] PadmePilot Actual Costume by Becca, on Flickr[/img]
I am also the other member she was mentioning looking into this costume. _________________ Let All That Is Done, Be Done In Love. |
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Ritin Kornas () Helvetica Base CO


Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 608 Location: Switzerland Medals: None
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:59 am Post subject:
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Good catch for the gloves ! The brown is just so clear (on both the video and the figures) I mistook it for the skin
But don't get me wrong for the reuse. As far as I know this line of dolls don't have ep2 padmé anyway, the reuse was more in the sense they might have prepare a doll for ep2 but rebranded here last minute as FOD, because you must recognize it, the helmet is wrong for FOD but exactly the one of ep2.
Regarding the boots, they are the same model, you have the same "flaps" on the side of the tibias. The silver plate is the same than the leather one, just a different color
So, nothing from the doll is specific except colors. That's why I say it's a reuse
In the end, that could even play in your favor I would say, as all the elements can be clearly identified (with potential color change) to those of ep2 except the helmet which is regular naboo pilot ep1, it means you can get 360 of every elements into play.
Personally I would love to see this validated, specially But I'm not a judge or LMO. Also, could be an easy made standard as we would need only to copy paste the ep2 standard, and naboo pilot standard for the helmet.
The best being to merge the two standards the same way than endor leia and briefing leia, or clone wars and ep3 mon mothma given the small differences.
PS : I'm staying curious about the hairstyle.
edit : oh and I encourage you to do them would love to see them ! _________________ CO Rebel Legion Helvetica Base (serving Switzerland)
Member of the RL Galactic Senate Council |
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ladysolo14 () Legion Membership Officer


Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Posts: 664 Location: Chicago Medals: None
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject:
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Right now the LMO team is putting a hold on approving the Forces of Destiny costumes. A lot of them are simplified versions of the costumes we see in the movie. On top of that the dolls and the cartoon versions do not match and the doll versions actually have more detail than the cartoon versions. We are attempting to determine the best way to proceed with these costumes, if at all. |
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LeiaAurora () Active Legion Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2016 Posts: 490 Location: Brea, California Medals: None
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:17 am Post subject:
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I can understand not using a doll as those can change and not be a match to what is seen on screen. However, if we have a full front/back/left/right from the cartoon, that should still work, correct?
Being a somewhat new member, I’m not sure how the standards were written for cartoon costume from “Clone Wars” or “Rebels”. Is it the same as a film/television costume or are other things taken in to account? _________________
In progress/planning: Marvel Comics Leia, Endor Leia, Tatooine Poncho Padme & Flame Handmaiden Padme
"This is a Rebellion, isn't it? I rebel." |
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rab96 () Active Legion Member

Joined: 07 Nov 2016 Posts: 119 Location: Greenville, SC Medals: None
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 am Post subject:
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It's understood that if we don't have full shots of a 360 of the character that it can't be approved, which I can see why this Pilot suit couldn't be.
But back to "simplified movie versions" of the costumes, the Clone Wars tv series uses these a lot, i.e. Padmé's Handmaiden Battle Gown from E1, Anakin and Obi-Wan's jedi wear towards the end of the series. Also in Rebels the TKs, TBs, etc are also simplified and correct me if I am wrong, are those not accepted in the 501st? And it is to my knowledge that the Clones in the 501st can only be animated now and not the realistic ones?
I am also a new member so I am not familiar with how the standards were written and/or new standards can be written. _________________ Let All That Is Done, Be Done In Love. |
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Kylo Ren (Dawn Bright) Assistant Membership Officer


Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 1292 Location: Disneyland Medals: 3 (View more...)
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:48 am Post subject:
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LeiaAurora wrote: | I can understand not using a doll as those can change and not be a match to what is seen on screen. However, if we have a full front/back/left/right from the cartoon, that should still work, correct?
Being a somewhat new member, I’m not sure how the standards were written for cartoon costume from “Clone Wars” or “Rebels”. Is it the same as a film/television costume or are other things taken in to account? |
What Blair means is that Almost all the Forces of Destiny Costumes are just simple versions of already approved costumes..
Because Rebels is completely different, new characters and new people
or Clone Wars
which includes same characters but in different costumes.
Clone wars anakin for example has very very different clothing
Where as you have most of these forces of Destiny costumes that look like the same costume we already have approved.
For example the anakin on the right in this above image is just a simplified version of whats already in the film. No ones submitted as it cause its the same costume as seen in the movie
Anakin in Ep3
So as you can see its just the same costume as shown in clone wars. Its just a simple version of the costume from ep3.
Where as his earlier outfit
This one:
Is a new costume. ^^^
Hope this helps! _________________
LCJ: Senate, Jedi, Rebel Supporter -GML: So Cal Garrison - LMO 501st Legion - |
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Ritin Kornas () Helvetica Base CO


Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 608 Location: Switzerland Medals: None
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:12 am Post subject:
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So given your arguments, I got 3 questions :
In what does a The Clone Wars clone trooper is not a simplified/stylized ep2 clone trooper ?
In what is an Rebel Captain from Star Wars Miniatures, not a Captain Antilles with slight color variations that we could input to the paint ?
In what is an ARC trooper from Clone Wars (miniseries) not a simplified/stylized version of the comics arc troopers (which is I guess the base for the "realistic" version of it?
 _________________ CO Rebel Legion Helvetica Base (serving Switzerland)
Member of the RL Galactic Senate Council |
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Kylo Ren (Dawn Bright) Assistant Membership Officer


Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 1292 Location: Disneyland Medals: 3 (View more...)
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:12 pm Post subject:
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Ritin Kornas wrote: | So given your arguments, I got 3 questions :
In what does a The Clone Wars clone trooper is not a simplified/stylized ep2 clone trooper ?
In what is an Rebel Captain from Star Wars Miniatures, not a Captain Antilles with slight color variations that we could input to the paint ?
In what is an ARC trooper from Clone Wars (miniseries) not a simplified/stylized version of the comics arc troopers (which is I guess the base for the "realistic" version of it?
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I wish I could help with any of those. I am not a tk person in any way shape or form...
The only thing I can really say right off the bat that I can see is that the hard parts look super stylized?
We can't stylize cloth. When you break down these costumes and undetail them they look like cheap costumes where as the armor still looks quality and unique. Take rebels Vader for example the armor is essentially the same but the head shape is super stylized. The entire suit is stylized. We can't stylize our faces to look like cartoons unlike these sets of armor. Maybe someone else can help with this answer but yeah I'm not the right person to ask this to. I'm great with cloth, bad with armor. I'm so Sorry. :/ _________________
LCJ: Senate, Jedi, Rebel Supporter -GML: So Cal Garrison - LMO 501st Legion - |
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Lora Skywalker () Detachment XO


Joined: 24 Jul 2008 Posts: 5969
Medals: None
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject:
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As I see it, the problem with the dolls are that they don't exactly match the FoD references. As pointed out by Thibaut the helmet is completely different. The collar height also chances. I'm sure there's other things, but I haven't studied it in detail. So that would prevent the dolls from being used as secondary references.
If you have a highly detailed figurine of a costume, and it's clear that the details match what can be seen in the primary references, then yes, that could be used as a secondary reference. That have been done before, but it have to match up. Otherwise it will end up a mess.
And I think Dawn (despite saying she doesn't know hard parts) hits the nail on the head; the armor can be stylized, but fabric can't. So you'd need proof that it's a new and different version of the costume and not just a simplified one, since we can't do that stylized style with fabric and ourselves. Would be cool if we could, but not physically possible.
I guess in the end it will most likely come down to what are new versions of the character's costumes and what is just simplified versions of the existing costumes. _________________ DXO of Royalty & Senatorial detachment
Detachment website: http://www.senate.rebellegion.com/ |
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