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Y-Wing flightsuit color?
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Steveboski ()
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Y-Wing flightsuit color? Reply with quote

I'm building a y wing costume and I cannot find any vendors selling anything remotely close to the light grey coveralls as shown in the original trilogy costume book. Has anyone figured this out?

Thanks in advance for any help.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the lightest gray ones I could find...
https://www.awawork.com/cc16hb.html?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=62293577359&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyfX4upyG1wIVAWl-Ch2sYghWEAQYBSABEgLQrfD_BwE

https://www.benchmarkfr.com/fr-coveralls/fr-contractor-plus-coverall/51528

https://workingperson.com/benchmark-mens-4030fr-light-grey-no-frills-fr-coveralls.html
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Dr. Morbius (Ingo Kaiser)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Y-Wing flightsuit color? Reply with quote

Steveboski wrote:
I'm building a y wing costume and I cannot find any vendors selling anything remotely close to the light grey coveralls as shown in the original trilogy costume book. Has anyone figured this out?

Thanks in advance for any help.


Uhm...the Arlinger Star Wars Costumes book pretty much confirms that it's tan not grey.

The closest you can get to the original ones are US Vietnam era K-2B ones. They pretty much have all the seams needed (and unfortunately a few more). To get it 100% correct I found for myself (A-Wing suit) it's less work to have a tailor make a new one with all details than to have him/her change an existing one to get that done.
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rtdubz (Trey Walker)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta argue that promotional material of Nora Wexley that I believe is considered canon shows grey suits as well

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want it to be the way they were in RotJ...then tan is the way to go. If you want it to be just like in a drawing...well...whatever. People will always argue towards what their flavor is, not towards what was obviously used in the original movie.

From a pilot judge’s mouth I can tell you if you try to get a Y-Wing pilot approved that looks just like that drawing...you’ll fail. For it to become approvable it needs more sources than an action figure or a drawing.
Besides, drawings often have off colors due to shadowing etc.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The english version of the book "Star Wars Costumes - The Original Trilogy" from Brandon Alinger states that the Y-Wing flight suit in ROTJ were gray not tan. Look at the Rodis-Jamero illustration on top-right of page 218. It has the title GREY PILOT BIB. That the uniforms are gray is also mentioned in the text about the Y-Wing pilots at the bottom of page 219.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can smartass around - what we will call it - all we want. Our eyes should pretty much all see the same.
And that color (be it gray or tan) looks a lot more like tan than it does like gray.
What I'm trying to say: someone who never saw those pics and was told "the flight suit should be gray" will come up with a true gray, basically like the Nora Wexley art and I think we can agree that this does not look like anything used in RotJ.
So if you want to call it gray...it's a tanish gray or very very light gray. It is NOT a typical gray tone you have in mind when someone says "It's gray" Wink
And it's also faaaaar from the gray that was used for the Imperial jumpsuits (AT-ST Driver , Sanning crew, bridge crew).
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with you. You would be right if the book was our only reference source due to the fact that the flight suit in the picture on page 217 looks almost white. But I think the flight suit was not preserved correctly and the color has faded over the years.

If you look at screen captures of the rebel briefing you can see that the grey flight suits are indeed gray. I would say that they are at least a similar shade of gray as the imperial version. Perhaps even a little darker than them but they are not as light as they appear in the book.










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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and I wholeheartedly disagree with you! The pics in the book are the only pics we ever see of those suits with normal light conditions. It would make the A-Wing pilots on the balcony having black flightsuits because that's what you se in this pic. By your same argumentation we would still have gray Imperial officers (that were ALL olive) and white AT-AT Drivers (that were all grey). The color gray may be screen-accurate but not prop-accurate.

If you look at this pic showing two Y-Wing pilots and give the fact how dark this is in general...the flightsuits still look very very light...the few scenes where we see the pilots are really not very good for the reference of the prop.



Scott Will who was in the Lucas archive and had some of the actual suits in hand also confirmed "they were more beige than grey" when I asked him.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I have seen the ewok party photos and I still think the briefing and the cockpit photos are the better references. The lighting in the ewok village is terrible. I do not know who Scott Will is and I do not say that he is wrong. I think depending on when he went to the Lucas Film achieves and how well the flight suit that he looked at was preserved it might have looked more tan than gray to him. I think the gray flight suit in the book, which might be the one that Scott Will saw, has faded a lot. I do not think that the Y-Wing pilots where called gray pilots in ROTJ for fun. I think it was done because their flight suits were indeed gray at the time. I think the gray of the imperial flight suits would be a great starting point for future Y-Wing pilots due to the fact that that gray is a lot lighter than most coveralls and military flight suits that you can buy. They need some sort of reference for their projects.

I agree that screen captures are not the best source when you want to make a very accurate prop if you are a star wars super fan and want to get as close to the original as possible. But I also think we should not go overboard with what we do for our rebel legion costumes. Many people that see us are not diehard star wars and often only know the movies. Due to that they do not know all the tiny details. For instance, I am a big star wars fan and I think that the real RFT vest from ANH that was auctioned off a little while ago just looks wrong because I cannot see those details in the movie not even in the blue ray version. So anybody that wears one of those vests just looks weird to me. I think it would be similar for any casual star wars fan.
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rtdubz (Trey Walker)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PArmstr wrote:
I disagree with you. You would be right if the book was our only reference source due to the fact that the flight suit in the picture on page 217 looks almost white. But I think the flight suit was not preserved correctly and the color has faded over the years.

If you look at screen captures of the rebel briefing you can see that the grey flight suits are indeed gray. I would say that they are at least a similar shade of gray as the imperial version. Perhaps even a little darker than them but they are not as light as they appear in the book.











Even with color correction, this is still grey, He is standing between at least 4 different characters wearing tan colored clothing, and there is two characters above him wearing tan flight suits
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PArmstr wrote:
I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fine Smile

PArmstr wrote:
I think the gray flight suit in the book, which might be the one that Scott Will saw, has faded a lot. I do not think that the Y-Wing pilots where called gray pilots in ROTJ for fun. I think it was done because their flight suits were indeed gray at the time.

I don't know why the color of a suit would fade inside a dark box stored in a dark room...especially not when the black and orange suits that were frequently pulled out for exhibitions haven't faded at all. Oh and the grey pilots were also grey squadron, and the green pilots (A-Wings) were green squadron so there goes your argument... Wink

PArmstr wrote:
I think the gray of the imperial flight suits would be a great starting point for future Y-Wing pilots due to the fact that that gray is a lot lighter than most coveralls and military flight suits that you can buy. They need some sort of reference for their projects.

Makes no sense to me to use Imperial flightsuits for reference when not even a single seem is identical to the flightsuits used.

PArmstr wrote:
Many people that see us are not diehard star wars and often only know the movies. Due to that they do not know all the tiny details. For instance, I am a big star wars fan and I think that the real RFT vest from ANH that was auctioned off a little while ago just looks wrong because I cannot see those details in the movie not even in the blue ray version. So anybody that wears one of those vests just looks weird to me. I think it would be similar for any casual star wars fan.

Actually you can see quite a few different vest pocket configurations when you look at all the screen caps. You can also see that the helmet visors are smoke translucent black, not dark non-translucent black. But you are right, the regular observer will not notice those differences, however they won't notice the correct prop setup of the pockets either, so no, I don't think it will look weird to the casual Star Wars fan.
If we wanted to go by "yeah...that's cool, it wasn't like that in the movie, but hey...John Doe in the street won't spot the difference" we wouldn't have costume standards that we are permanently trying to update to the point of perfection.
I'm not saying grey is wrong or should be ruled out completely...a light grey as seen in the scenes we both referenced is perfectly fine for RL acceptance. A dark grey as in the promotional art would surely be debated among us pilot judges.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not good at the quote thing here in the forum so I will do it like this.

I do not know how a flight suit could fade in a dark box. I just do not have a better explanation on why the one the book so much lighter than the ones in the movie itself. I think the name of each the flight squadron does not contradict my argument. It underlines it. I always thought the color of the flight suits and the call signs were matched up on purpose. Smile

I only mean the color of the gray imperial flight suit. You are right everything else about would be incorrect. You are also right that the gray in the drawing is not correct and that it should not count as a source. I think that grey/light grey should stay in the updated CRL. Add whatever color you think the picture in the shows as another possibility. I agree that dark gray should not be an option.

The thing about the details is the reason that I like that many of the 501st legions costume have levels of accuracy. We might want to consider something like that with the rebel legion costumes.

I am only participating in this discussion because I want to make a rebel pilot from scratch. I have been doing a lot of research on different pilots for a couple of weeks now and plan to start as soon as I made up my mind which one it should be. The following pilots are the ones I am considering, A-Wing (ROTJ), B-Wing (ROTJ) or Y-Wing (ROTJ). Due to that I try to stay informed of any possible changes of the CRLs. I agree that the CRLs of the Y-Wing and A-Wing pilot need to be updated to reflect what we learned from the book. But I would also be very disappointed if I finally finished my project and then I could not get it approved because the updated CRLs does not reflect what I have created.
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Last edited by PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss) on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PArmstr wrote:
I am not good at the quote thing here in the forum so I will do it like this.

I do not know how a flight suit could fade in a dark box. I just do not have a better explanation on why the one the books so much lighter than in the movie itself. I think the name of each the flight squadron does not contradict my argument. It underlines it. I always thought the color of the flight suits and the call signs were matched up on purpose.

I only mean the color of the gray imperial flight suit. You are right everything else about would be incorrect. You are also right that the gray in the drawing is not correct and that it should not count as a source. I think that grey/light grey should stay in the updated CRL. Add whatever color you think the picture in the shows as another possibility. I agree that dark gray should not be an option.

The thing about the details is the reason that I like that many of the 501st legions costume have levels of accuracy. We might want to consider something like that with the rebel legion costumes.

I am only participating in this discussion because I want to make a rebel pilot from scratch. I have been doing a lot of research on different pilots for a couple of weeks now and plan to start as soon as I made up my mind which one it should be. The following pilots are the ones I am considering, A-Wing (ROTJ), B-Wing (ROTJ) or Y-Wing (ROTJ). Due to that I try to stay informed of any possible changes of the CRLs. I agree that the CRLs of the Y-Wing and A-Wing pilot need to be updated to reflect what we learned from the book. But I would also be very disappointed if I finally finished my project and then I could not get it approved because the updated CRLs does not reflect what I have created.


The Standards for the A- and B-Wing pilots were already updated and currently at the LMO for review and approval, they should be officially released, soon (hopefully!). They are not super strict about color, though, the most important part was to move away from X-Wing suits in different colors, because the ones used in the film had almost no mutual details with the X-Wing suits. So the new Standards will mostly reflect the details of the K-2B flightsuits that the costumes were designed after, get rid of wrong pockets and compads add the correct collars and so forth.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is great news. I look forward to reading the updated A-Wing and B-Wing CRLs. Will the Y-Wing CRL also be updated in foreseeable future?
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