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YAGJ (Yet Another Generic Jedi) WIP: CS Base Alteration
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Lora Skywalker ()
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it will look better if it is slimmer and as a bonus it will then work with the buckle you already have. Smile Good luck.
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kman ()
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lora Skywalker wrote:
I think it will look better if it is slimmer and as a bonus it will then work with the buckle you already have. Smile Good luck.


Thanks! I cut down the 1" strip to 3/4" this past weekend. Now I just have to figure out a final design for the belt, and start the real work. As a bonus for procrastinating, the buckle I ordered came in. Smile Although it's smaller than it looked on screen... I may end up using the other as a temp buckle anyway, while I hunt for something really cool.

It's tough deciding how to make a good belt that has an adjustable closure at the back. I've seen a few different ideas in the tutorials forum, but nothing that make me go YES! just yet.

Times like this I wish I was slimmer, with more stable weight, but since I tend to yo-yo a bit, I want adjustable. And I'm trying to avoid cheating by using velcro under a leather cover... I'd like either snaps or Sam Browne studs into holes, to close it up. (and then the leather cover, of course)

I've mentally committed to at least adding the edge creasing tonight. A line 1/4" from each edge on the 2.5" belt, and probably 1/8" in on the 3/4" outer belt. I haven't decided if I'll add two more lines farther in on the big belt or not.

Oh, and I got a new toy. Smile



No electronics yet, so it would just be a belt hanger, but it'll be a nice alternative for events where no blades are needed/wanted, until then, and it's sure purty. Smile
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Leroni (Leroni)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kman wrote:
.....

This fold goes right where the tabard strips pass under the obi, right?

But in that same tutorial, it recommends then tacking them together where they meet in the middle, so you end up with two tabard strips hanging directly together side by side, touching down one edge (even if they're not sewn down the whole edge):

Oh, and last question (for now!), would the same sort of pinch seam be done in the back as well, so they strips also angle across the back but hang down straight once they go under the obi in back?


Hello Smile
i will like to answer your questions.

- yes the fold is under the obi. you wont see it.

- if you are tacking them together they will always be the same length. many times i saw jedi with one longer and one shorter tabard. and if you move they will always stay on their place. special when you pose for a picture. it is only fixed with 2-3 stitches not the full length.

- yes the same pinch seam is also in the back, so you dont have to think about "am i looking fine at the back" the whole day. it will stay in place.

i always use snap fastener for tabards at the shoulder, for inner and outer tunic. you wont see them, its easier to fix and you wont see the place where you fix it.

yours
Leroni
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Cobalt-60 ()
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you could make a belt with no closure in the back at all...

the 'wide' belt just needs to overlap itself.
and the 'skinny' belt goes all the way around,
with a "functional" buckle on the front, to keep it closed.
^^ this is how the movie belts were made.

ie: the wide belt is like a leather-obi. it slides with respect to itself; it just overlaps at the back;
there's no velcro or studs or anything to keep it closed.
the skinny belt holds it all together. it's adjustable, at either side of the buckle on the front.
and the buckle itself , keeps the entire jedi belt closed.

(if that makes any sense)

this is the "Screen accurate" method. it requires a "functional" buckle at the front; not just a decorative conch.
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kman ()
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cobalt-60 wrote:
you could make a belt with no closure in the back at all...

the 'wide' belt just needs to overlap itself.
and the 'skinny' belt goes all the way around,
with a "functional" buckle on the front, to keep it closed.
^^ this is how the movie belts were made.

ie: the wide belt is like a leather-obi. it slides with respect to itself; it just overlaps at the back;
there's no velcro or studs or anything to keep it closed.
the skinny belt holds it all together. it's adjustable, at either side of the buckle on the front.
and the buckle itself , keeps the entire jedi belt closed.

(if that makes any sense)

this is the "Screen accurate" method. it requires a "functional" buckle at the front; not just a decorative conch.


This is intriguing to me. Smile

Got any links to posts with pics of this method, by chance?
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kman ()
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leroni wrote:
kman wrote:
.....

This fold goes right where the tabard strips pass under the obi, right?

But in that same tutorial, it recommends then tacking them together where they meet in the middle, so you end up with two tabard strips hanging directly together side by side, touching down one edge (even if they're not sewn down the whole edge):

Oh, and last question (for now!), would the same sort of pinch seam be done in the back as well, so they strips also angle across the back but hang down straight once they go under the obi in back?


Hello Smile
i will like to answer your questions.

- yes the fold is under the obi. you wont see it.

- if you are tacking them together they will always be the same length. many times i saw jedi with one longer and one shorter tabard. and if you move they will always stay on their place. special when you pose for a picture. it is only fixed with 2-3 stitches not the full length.

- yes the same pinch seam is also in the back, so you dont have to think about "am i looking fine at the back" the whole day. it will stay in place.

i always use snap fastener for tabards at the shoulder, for inner and outer tunic. you wont see them, its easier to fix and you wont see the place where you fix it.

yours
Leroni


Thank you. Smile I ended up doing just that, although I used Velcro instead of snaps at the shoulders.
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Cobalt-60 ()
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kman wrote:
Cobalt-60 wrote:
you could make a belt with no closure in the back at all...

the 'wide' belt just needs to overlap itself.
and the 'skinny' belt goes all the way around,
with a "functional" buckle on the front, to keep it closed.
^^ this is how the movie belts were made.

ie: the wide belt is like a leather-obi. it slides with respect to itself; it just overlaps at the back;
there's no velcro or studs or anything to keep it closed.
the skinny belt holds it all together. it's adjustable, at either side of the buckle on the front.
and the buckle itself , keeps the entire jedi belt closed.

(if that makes any sense)

this is the "Screen accurate" method. it requires a "functional" buckle at the front; not just a decorative conch.


This is intriguing to me. Smile

Got any links to posts with pics of this method, by chance?


I have no pics offhand, (I'll try to search something up).
there have been threads about it in the past,
Dave (lgtsbr) used to make them this way. ( saberbelt.com )
he could explain it better than me.
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rlobrecht ()



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hampton's Jedi Outfitters has a video showing their belts that use a variation of this technique. It's not really a how to, but it does show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRcKbFPUrZc
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JohnstonMR (Michael Johnston)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rlobrecht wrote:
Hampton's Jedi Outfitters has a video showing their belts that use a variation of this technique. It's not really a how to, but it does show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRcKbFPUrZc


I have one of their belts; it's a good system.
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kman ()
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnstonMR wrote:
rlobrecht wrote:
Hampton's Jedi Outfitters has a video showing their belts that use a variation of this technique. It's not really a how to, but it does show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRcKbFPUrZc


I have one of their belts; it's a good system.


I'm familiar with their belts, because they have a tutorial thread right here in the Tutorials forum. Smile

http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76037

I've been considering going that route, but haven't made any firm decisions yet.

Last night I grooved my belts, and with any luck I'll start dying them tonight. Shortly after that I'll need to make a final decision, but until then I can keep looking at options around the 'net.

Grooving went ok, except some minor issues due to the new tool I decided to try out (unfortunately). That thing is going directly into the trash, that's for sure! Fortunately the worst issues were at the ends, which will either be trimmed off (the big belt in particular is longer than it needs to be) or likely covered under a loop to hide (in the back) or concealed behind pouches on the sides (depending on exactly where it ends up laying on me).

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Cobalt-60 ()
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats not quite the same, since the narrow belt is 2 pieces. (and fixed to the wide belt with stitching).


I'm talking about just leaving the wide belt to overlap itself with no closure at all.
and the narrow belt is a functional belt, with a functional buckle, which goes over the wide belt, and holds everything closed.
(just as it looks).
it's not attached to the wide belt. they are two separate structures.

the wide belt (inner belt) has no closure at all, it simply overlaps itself at the back;
the narrow belt (outer belt) holds it all closed. via a functional belt strap, and a functional buckle.

for this, you need the narrow belt (outer belt) to be one long continuous strap which goes all the way around the back of your body and closes at the front with a functional buckle. (like, you know, a real belt. unto itself) Razz





think of it as 2 separate structures:

- the wide belt would fall off, with nothing to keep it closed -- it's not a functional "belt" -- it's just a strip of leather wrapped around you, with no closure at all;

- the narrow belt keeps it closed -- the narrow belt IS a functional belt, all by itself -- with a functional belt strap and a functional buckle in the front.
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kman ()
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the general concept, Cobalt, thanks. Seems like it would be a pain to put on, particularly w/r/t pouches that have to loop around the main belt.

At this point I'm kinda leaning towards a simple Velcro closure at the ends of the big inner belt, with a sewn-on outer belt, and the big keeper to cover the junction at the back. Not ideal, but it'll get the job done, and I can revisit the design optimization at a future date after I'm already approved and such.
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kman ()
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress made.

Slicked the edge of the outer belt (compared to unslicked inner belt):



Slicked the edge of the inner belt (comparison showing slicked vs. unslicked):



Dyed the two belts. Outer belt = Eco Flo Waterstain Desert Sand, Inner belt = Eco Flo Waterstain Light Brown:



I'll be putting another coat of light brown, possibly mixed with some slightly darker brown, on the big belt, to provide a little more contrast between the two. And then I'll put a top coat of Eco Flo Clear Gloss to seal it in, and I'll be applying Eco Flo Gum Trabanth to the back of both, for sealing and "shed prevention", as well as burnishing the back of the big belt some more. All in the name of keeping my Obi clean, LOL!

Once that's done, it's time to make final decisions on assembly methodology. For now, I'm sticking with the cheap "buckle" from the craptastic pleather belt, until I find something I like better. (I don't care for the one that I ordered, the actual thing was a lot smaller than it looked in photos.)

Then I get to start on pouches, and I'll finally be ready for photos!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the belts sealed, and started aging the big belt a bit. I think I'll keep the skinny belt smooth for now, and let it self-age. I need to finish sealing the and burnishing the back of the big belt tonight (gum trabanth and a big spoon, to keep it from shedding leather bits on my obi!), and I won't be able to put off deciding about how I'm going to put these two together!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, minor but important belt progress: I finished burnishing the back of the belt with gum trabanth, and then used some leather conditioner to get the belt feeling a bit less dry and brittle after all this wetting and dying. Then I put on my Jedi outfit and wrapped the belt around to be to check size, and cut off a piece at the end that's big enough to wrap around the belt as a cover piece. (about 5.5", hope that's enough because I can't spare more length from the belt!) Belt is 2.5", so that should be enough for the idea I'm working with. If not I'll have to buy some more leather and cross my fingers I can match the finish!

That (finally) brings us to assembly. No more delaying.

I'm going to give in and go with Velcro, at least this round. At some point I may change to a better, more secure, more (or less!) adjustable method, but meanwhile, I'm hoping this will suffice.

My plan is somewhat complicated, but it's the only way I can think of to make this all work, be secure, be somewhat adjustable, and yet not put all the stress on the skinny outer belt. I'll have about 3" of velcro to work with, but my "ideal fastening position" (based on my current body size) should only need about 2" of that, and it will double fastened because the outer belt ends will stick to each other, AND the wrap closure will have additional velcro of it's own to lock things in with, so there should be inadvertent velcro failures while wearing it.

This setup should allow the belt to be tightened by about 2" (from ideal) for use by someone smaller (or if I hopefully lose some weight), with no problems at all. It'll just slide farther in, and there is enough Velcro to still hold it in place. It will ALSO allow the belt to be loosened about 1" from ideal. This will expose up to an inch of velcro on the back, but it shouldn't be too much trouble to slide a pouch over that to hide it.

Excuse my handwritten and poor sketching ability, but here is what I had in mind:



Not really shown is the outer wrap, which is partially stitched in place, allowing the skinny outer belt to simply pass under it and move freely back and forth. The outer belt will close with a buckle of some sort in the front. The outer wrap will wrap over the top and bottom of the belt, closing with matching velcro that's on the inside of the big belt.

I have two areas of concern:

1) How is best to actually securely attach the Velcro to the leather belt? The regular Velcro adhesive seems like it would not bond strongly enough. Superglue? E6000? Some sort of Leather glue? Stitching? (wow what a pain that will be!)

2) This setup is going to be kind of thick. Technically there will be 4 layers of leather, PLUS the inner belt in the center (1-outer wrap, 2-belt side 1, 3-belt side 2, and 4-the wrapped top/bottom tabs from the outer wrap), with two sets of Velcro in the thickest part.

Can anyone take a look at this sketch I've done, and hopefully interpret it and let me know if it seems viable (or hopefully an actual good idea?), or if I should look into a different method? I can work the leather, but this crazy attachment business has my head spinning.
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