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Prequel Style Jedi - Costume Standard Proposal (Part II)
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Hopfot (Scott)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add on the issue of glasses.

I wear glasses due to blurred and distorted vision in 1 eye from an injury back in high school. I also pick up too much light in that eye due to nerve damage in the iris. So having them on does considerably help with my stereo vision.

Now, honestly, approval photos, you don't need to be wearing your glasses to stand in front of a camera, so take them off. But you may need them when out and about, and if you can neither afford or medically wear contacts, then yes you can wear them whilst trooping.

Also, remember too that when you say glasses, but no sunglasses. Some of us can only afford 1 pair of glasses, and they may be a nice pair of transition lenses, such as mine (to cope with the too much light I mentioned). And when they are in the sunlight, they go as dark as sunglasses. Thank the maker my health insurance paid for half of them, cause those transitions were expensive.

So my point, IF you say glasses, but no sunglasses. Remember that sometimes, glasses can look like sunglasses. And secondly, it really should be no glasses at all for approval photos (for the sake of your profile pic) but allowed under extreme circumstances for trooping.
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Mara Skywalker (Anna)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

honestly, the TOR jedi, I see and inner tunic (brown) Outer tunic (green) Tabbards (Y-shaped and decorated) and an obi (although it's very wide)

In the picture from the Jedi Path, I strongly believe there is a tabbard - the linked image isn't too good, but you can clearly see it when sitting with the book (I found the picture in my own too)

I'll try to scan my own book, see if that turns out better.

Also, there's another Jedi in the same book with a Y shaped tabbard. I'll scan that one too. Stay tuned
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Oraculo (Agustín)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone

To go short, we expose points:

-Tabard Y: Can be set as an alternative to the custome Standard. We refer in the book "The Jedi Path"

-With respect to the rings and other jewelry: we can make as an alternative item. I see no reason to remove it.

-With respect to glasses: I agree that the glasses are not used in the profile photo. Obviously, if in events, and even more so if prescribed by a doctor (includes polarized glasses). With regard to sunglasses, it is not allowed.

What do you think about this?

Best Regards!
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dannv ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oraculo wrote:
-Tabard Y: Can be set as an alternative to the custome Standard. We refer in the book "The Jedi Path"


Why? So far, you have one possible example, although the image doesn't look to have tabards. One-offs shouldn't be part of a generic standard. Further, are the pics in the book from the same era or a different one (assuming more than one reference pic?)

Quote:

-With respect to glasses: I agree that the glasses are not used in the profile photo. Obviously, if in events, and even more so if prescribed by a doctor (includes polarized glasses). With regard to sunglasses, it is not allowed.


Why don't you want a prescribed medical device in the profile photo? Are you going to make someone with an artificial limb remove it for the profile photo or require someone with braces to not smile or someone who requires a wheel chair not sit in it for the profile photo? Or are you just going to discriminate against people with glasses?
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sarah_d (sarah drummond)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the tabbards-

Creating a 'generic look' is based on seeing the same element more than once, on the same style of costume. This creates a sort of uniform look.

One-offs, one reference is not enough to add to a generic standard imo.
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Mara Skywalker (Anna)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dannv wrote:
Oraculo wrote:
-Tabard Y: Can be set as an alternative to the custome Standard. We refer in the book "The Jedi Path"


Why? So far, you have one possible example, although the image doesn't look to have tabards. One-offs shouldn't be part of a generic standard. Further, are the pics in the book from the same era or a different one (assuming more than one reference pic?)


Working on providing the photos from the book as we speak. As for the era, I am a bit unsure what "prequel" really refers to, as the rest of the speak in this topic constantly talks of this standard as the OT/IT/tabbars/obi standards. Which these costumes have. So, as far as that goes, everything is fine Razz
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Oraculo (Agustín)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dannv wrote:
Oraculo wrote:
-Tabard Y: Can be set as an alternative to the custome Standard. We refer in the book "The Jedi Path"


Why? So far, you have one possible example, although the image doesn't look to have tabards. One-offs shouldn't be part of a generic standard. Further, are the pics in the book from the same era or a different one (assuming more than one reference pic?)

Quote:

-With respect to glasses: I agree that the glasses are not used in the profile photo. Obviously, if in events, and even more so if prescribed by a doctor (includes polarized glasses). With regard to sunglasses, it is not allowed.


Why don't you want a prescribed medical device in the profile photo? Are you going to make someone with an artificial limb remove it for the profile photo or require someone with braces to not smile or someone who requires a wheel chair not sit in it for the profile photo? Or are you just going to discriminate against people with glasses?


Hello Dannv

Okay, you're right. You are not angry about that. I just wrote the idea (but because the idea is lost with so many opinions)

sarah_d wrote:
With the tabbards-

Creating a 'generic look' is based on seeing the same element more than once, on the same style of costume. This creates a sort of uniform look.

One-offs, one reference is not enough to add to a generic standard imo.


No problem Sarah. As before the Tabard "Y" was accepted, he puts it as a possible idea (and a possible reference in the book). If we can find another reference, excellent.

Thank you very much for your ideas and comments

Best Regards!
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Jaina Solo-Fel (Christina Jensen)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I don't see what in the world people have against the Y-shaped tappards. I don't pretend to be an expert on the topic of that particular tappard, nor can I come up with any references. I have however, for some years now, been trooping with Anakin Skywalker, who has the approved Jedi here with the Y-shaped tappards, that Mara Skywalker has linked to and that costume is as popular and as Jedi like as any other approved Jedi in this legion. It's not like it's a completely different costume, where it has absolutely no other traits that says it's a Jedi. It has the OT, IT, Obi and it forms a Y instead of going into two tappards at the end. When I wear my Jedi, that has the normal Anakin style tappards, they are close together at the end under the obi, that you would have to look close for line between the two, so it could just as well have been a Y-shaped tappard, and I've seen that with other Jedis too. Therefore, there is nothing at all that exactly screams "this is ABSOLUTELY NOT a jedi". Quite on the contrary.
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Anakin Skywalker ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not read the entire thread!

I just want to post some picture all of them from the jedi path

The first one has all ready been posted, but I still believe it has a single tab. I took these pictures myself.



Then I contrasted it to better show the Y tab



And then I drew some lines



Further more I found this in The Jedi Path, and this is much clearly a single Y tab below the belt



then I contrasted it



THen I drew some lines


This even seems to have the same shape as my costume.

And lastly I found this



I think this is more clear but still I contrasted it



and then yes.... I drew some lines



I think this clearly states that the Y tab is present in the era, not often but still
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Cobalt-60 ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="dannv"]
Oraculo wrote:
..are the pics in the book from the same era or a different one (assuming more than one reference pic?)


from the book itself:

"Our Historians estimate the text was set down a decade or more after the end of the New Sith Wars in 1000BBY."

the illustrations depict what Jedi Costumes looked like, some 970 years before the 'Prequel Era'.

cheers.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I have nothing against the Y tabard from the look, but I want to be sure we have reference for such an item since we're a screen/media accurate costuming group, not a custom costuming group. This standard has a lot of latitude, but we need to be sure that we have reference for the things we include. Probably a bad example, but an X-Wing flight suit with pockets in the wrong places will get rejected even though people not intimately familiar with the costume would likely ever know....

Thank you for posting these pictures. They certainly seem to be the best reference we have so far. A few quick thoughts on them...

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

Then I contrasted it to better show the Y tab




I'm not sure if the top patterned pieces are tabards or part of the OT. They appear to have the line for a collar, which makes me lean OT.

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

then I contrasted it




This is interesting since it does seem to show a single tabard below the belt, tabards that cross in the front, a very high cut OT in the front, and no obi.

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

I think this is more clear but still I contrasted it




I don't see any tabards above the belt for this Jedi.

I ended up looking at The Jedi Path as well, and, in general, I think they have an overall different feel than what we're looking at in the current standard. Quite a few images have no tabards at all, while others show hakama, super hero style capes, and bare arms. Personally, I think we'd either need to substantially expand the current standard (more than for just a Y tabard) to accommodate this book, or keep the standard more focused for this particular generic standard.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Cobalt-60"]
dannv wrote:
Oraculo wrote:
..are the pics in the book from the same era or a different one (assuming more than one reference pic?)


from the book itself:

"Our Historians estimate the text was set down a decade or more after the end of the New Sith Wars in 1000BBY."

the illustrations depict what Jedi Costumes looked like, some 970 years before the 'Prequel Era'.

cheers.


Very good point!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Cobalt-60"]
dannv wrote:
Oraculo wrote:
..are the pics in the book from the same era or a different one (assuming more than one reference pic?)


from the book itself:

"Our Historians estimate the text was set down a decade or more after the end of the New Sith Wars in 1000BBY."

the illustrations depict what Jedi Costumes looked like, some 970 years before the 'Prequel Era'.

cheers.


Thank you! That would mean a different standard or a one-off costume made to reference pics. It definitely isn't prequel era, so wouldn't be included in a prequel era standard.

As to the question of prequel era, that would be in the neighborhood of 30 to 20 BBY. (18 bby?) Anyway, we don't seem to have much for reference in the timeframe just before Epsiode 1 and anything post ROTJ would also be a different timeframe. My question would be, is that what we want to do? I believe it fits with the rest of the standards, but it would mean this standard needs to be more limited than it is now since parts of it don't fall into the prequel era.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know we had the time period discussion quite a bit in the previous thread. To me, it feels reasonable to focus on the prequel era plus some Legends material that uses a very similar style of costume. (OT/tabards/obi as the general silhouette)

While not completely time period based, it would feel needlessly cumbersome to have two nearly identical standards (e.g. One that allows black and another that doesn't though all the other components are identical), especially when we never reference what standard someone was approved against, or even what they're submitting as.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopfot wrote:
Just to add on the issue of glasses.

I wear glasses due to blurred and distorted vision in 1 eye from an injury back in high school. I also pick up too much light in that eye due to nerve damage in the iris. So having them on does considerably help with my stereo vision.

Now, honestly, approval photos, you don't need to be wearing your glasses to stand in front of a camera, so take them off. But you may need them when out and about, and if you can neither afford or medically wear contacts, then yes you can wear them whilst trooping.

Also, remember too that when you say glasses, but no sunglasses. Some of us can only afford 1 pair of glasses, and they may be a nice pair of transition lenses, such as mine (to cope with the too much light I mentioned). And when they are in the sunlight, they go as dark as sunglasses. Thank the maker my health insurance paid for half of them, cause those transitions were expensive.

So my point, IF you say glasses, but no sunglasses. Remember that sometimes, glasses can look like sunglasses. And secondly, it really should be no glasses at all for approval photos (for the sake of your profile pic) but allowed under extreme circumstances for trooping.


Again, I state that asking people to remove glasses is like asking a person in a wheelchair to stand. It is insulting. It is discrimination. I am happy that your eyes allow you to stand in front of a camera for a picture. Mine do not. I risk permanent blindness if my glasses are off and my eyes open in anything other than total darkness. I cannot tolerate the light of indoor lighting. I really cannot tolerate the lighting of outdoors. If the no glasses rule goes into effect, I will take all my approval pictures with my eyes shut - no exceptions. And I am not alone in this.

As for transiiton lenses - we ask that applicants take their photos so that the lenses are as clear as possible. since the approval photo is photoshopped by the Legion, there is no reason for approval action photos to be taken outside so the sunglass effect is avoided.

As to dannv question - this is a standard covering prequel movie jedi only. As stated before we are hoping to have Jedi for different time periods. Once they are all established the current generic Jedi will be eliminated. So this standard is not to cover all the Jedi possibilities but just those ones seen in episodes 1-3, the clone wars - movie and tv series (both animated and CGI) and the graphic novels, books and toys from those periods.
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