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[New] Prequel Jedi
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Dust ()
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shay Kenobi wrote:
" the Outer tunic should comfortably cover the butt but then may extend to any length" ?


I'd go with this, mid-thigh is too long in my opinion. Smile

I like keeping the option for black boots and belt, and I think it could work with white and gray options too if it fits the rest of the costume.
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ionicdesign (Michael)
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dust wrote:

I like keeping the option for black boots and belt, and I think it could work with white and gray options too if it fits the rest of the costume.


Yes. As noted there are examples. Asajj Ventresss (Padawan), also Zule Xiss, etc who have black elements from the prequel era.



This is a time based standard not a source based standard.
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Lora Skywalker ()
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While this proposal is very much based on the movies, it is also based on the comics of the period and thus we have tried hard not to restrict it too much.

I hear what you are saying about mid tight. We will need to look at the wording for that.

Bultar Swan (which is often referred to as a jedi with a short tunic) is about 2 inches, or close to 2 inches, below the crotch. TPM Obi-Wan around 2-3 inches below the crotch.
Or said in another way: all the short OT's are still longer than the sleeves of the tunic. If you look closely you can see that even the shortest reach the base of the thumb when the arms are hanging straight down.
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Mara Skywalker (Anna)
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Jaina Solo-Fel"]
dannv wrote:
I Think it would a bid difficult to set up a New Republic/New Jedi Order/Legacy period Jedi up (titles of the eras as Well as the subtitles for series of books that came along) because in my opinion, there are too many options to go from, to Pick in which direction it should be as a NR/NJO/Legacy standard, and that it May be better that the post-ROTJ Jedi fell under the coming new Generic Jedi category, which Sarah mentioned in the first post.

But that might be for another topic to discuss Wink


while I do like a lot of this standard, my only concern with this is that it seems that the colours here are very subdued, and I think we're missing out both New and Old republic in that way, as these eras, as you yourself is saying have a bit more colour variations Smile I think these new colours are very....well...dull.... Smile
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dannv ()
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lora Skywalker wrote:
Or said in another way: all the short OT's are still longer than the sleeves of the tunic. If you look closely you can see that even the shortest reach the base of the thumb when the arms are hanging straight down.


Ummm... Not really. Base of thumb for me is right about crotch length and will be for many people. I'm not sure I'd say the Bultar Swan tunic is 2 inches below crotch length, either. I've seen no pictures that would substantiate that claim and looking at her figure and tunic length, I'd say her tunic is just over crotch length and the tabards are another couple of inches longer.

Now, I can see requiring the skirt of the tunic to be at least as long as the sleeves, but I'm not sure that will gain much in reality.

I understand what the LCJs are trying to do but creating a standard that doesn't match screen used costumes is a bad idea, particularly when it's such an iconic costume. See my previous post for suggested wording that isn't arbitrary or open to interpretation and supporting images.
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dannv ()
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mara Skywalker wrote:
while I do like a lot of this standard, my only concern with this is that it seems that the colours here are very subdued, and I think we're missing out both New and Old republic in that way, as these eras, as you yourself is saying have a bit more colour variations Smile I think these new colours are very....well...dull.... Smile


The KOTOR/SWTOR era and the Legends Jedi Academy/New Republic era are going to have to have their own standards if there is sufficient material to create them. One standard trying to cover everything just isn't working well for anything.
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the thing is that a lot of the tunic styles from both Tales period and NJO period are pretty similar to the PT era - but the colours seem more bright

I just would really hate to see us end up back at two standards with the only real difference being the use of covertech or d-ring clip Razz Because, that was just...stupid
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dannv ()
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, the only real reason I can see is that LFL/Disney may want certain costumes for their events and those will not include Legends material in most cases. So, we need a standard that makes costumes acceptable for LFL event. That means Jedi that would blend in at Geonosis or scenes in the Jedi temple. So, lengths have to match screen used, sleeve length has to match, colors have to match, etc. We'd have more flexibility with Legends standards, but people need to understand that LFL may not want those costumes at official events.

Personally, I'd rather be able to use a hook and d-ring but they used covertecs so we're stuck. (They are a limited supply, or so I've been told. They aren't making the movie accurate versions anymore. So we may have to make some allowances there at some point, too.)
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rogue9607 (Nick)
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe this change has anything to do with Disney events. Disney's SWW requirements for Jedi are far more restrictive than even this new standard would be.

On a different note, would this prequel standard replace the current generic, or would it be a new category?
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Cobalt-60 ()
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are there any "canon" examples of prequel jedi with black belts/boots/tunics?
(not EU "legends" sources, but current disney canon?)

I would tend to agree that black boots/belts/tunics should not be allowed.
I think black is better suited to KOTOR and other eras.

Quote:

I understand what the LCJs are trying to do but creating a standard that doesn't match screen used costumes is a bad idea, particularly when it's such an iconic costume.


this.
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Cobalt-60 ()
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: OT length.

we're all about "proportional" fit. correct?

one reason Mace's tunic is so long, is because he wears his belt so low, like a gunslinger.

--> on MOST jedi: the distance from obi-to-shoulder is somewhat proportional to the distance from obi-to-hem.

if we use this as the frame of reference then all OT's will cover the buttocks.



"OT's should be of a minimum length that the distance from obi to bottom hem is roughly the same as obi to shoulder (the obi should bisect the tunic roughly at the midpoint); OT's may extend to the floor, or any length in between."

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dannv ()
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rogue9607 wrote:
I don't believe this change has anything to do with Disney events. Disney's SWW requirements for Jedi are far more restrictive than even this new standard would be.


I didn't say it was a Disney requirement. I said meeting Disney standards for canon v legends could be a reason to split it. Honestly, I have issues with some of what I've seen go by simply because it doesn't look at all Jedi like. But that's just me. It might be great for the Post ROTJ Legends, but it certainly doesn't fit the prequel costumes and wouldn't blend in if stuck into a movie scene.

Quote:
On a different note, would this prequel standard replace the current generic, or would it be a new category?


My understanding is this replaces the current standard and then additional standards need to be created for Legends items, be they Old Republic or New Republic, etc.
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dannv ()
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cobalt-60 wrote:
--> on MOST jedi: the distance from obi-to-shoulder is somewhat proportional to the distance from obi-to-hem.

if we use this as the frame of reference then all OT's will cover the buttocks.



"OT's should be of a minimum length that the distance from obi to bottom hem is roughly the same as obi to shoulder (the obi should bisect the tunic roughly at the midpoint); OT's may extend to the floor, or any length in between."


That might work for most, but definitely not all. It would depend totally on body type and build. Someone with a long body and short waste it would work great on, someone with a short body and long waste, not so much.

I still don't see the heartburn over saying it must cover the costumers crotch and buttocks plus an inch. There's nothing offensive in that language and it isn't open to interpretation. Stop trying to find wording that is overly PC and totally imprecise. It just leads to people getting bent out of shape because interpretations differ.
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Shay Kenobi ()
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of modifying the standards is to provide an accurate guide to people about to submit a costume. It is to assist in ensuring that their costume will be approved.

We have some really average costumes submitted on occasion and I can tell you overwhelmingly, the two most common reasons for denial.

1) Tunic length. Short tunics are indicative of the companies that mass produce costumes. We are not picking on these companies but the costumes are just poorly made and are well below standard. They look like a fancy dress costume. I'm not sure why we are arguing whether a tunic should cover ones butt or not. Seriously ? Who wants to actually wear a tunic that doesn't cover the butt ? If you want to submit a Bultar Swan costume, you can. That's a face character costume and should look like the references from the movie. Go right ahead, you won't be denied. The reason there were maybe another one or two in the arena scene with short tunics is that they were extras ! I doubt that their costumes were tailored and quite frankly don't look that good either. Are you really not happy with "should comfortably cover the butt" Do you seriously want approval to wear it shorter than that ? I can almost guarantee it won't look right. People will think it comes from a fancy dress store.

The second most common reason for denial are 2) loud colours that aren't representative of the Jedi.
Yes there are bright elaborate colours and designs in sources other than the movies from other eras which will be dealt with in other standards. This being Prequel Jedi however, bright, loud colours are not permitted. The Jedi of this era are humble almost monastic in their fashion choices. The colour palette provided, allows you to recreate any costume that has been seen during this era including the more colourful Jedi such as Shaak Ti or Barriss Offee ( ie Reds and purples ).

Following these standards allows a member to reproduce any Jedi they have seen in the prequels. The objective is to provide clear instructions to follow, that will result in more approvals and less denials.
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dannv ()
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shay Kenobi wrote:
1) Tunic length... I'm not sure why we are arguing whether a tunic should cover ones butt or not. Seriously ? Who wants to actually wear a tunic that doesn't cover the butt ?


No one is arguing for shorter than that. The argument is whether it should need to be mid thigh or something else longer than covering the costumers butt.

Quote:

The second most common reason for denial are 2) loud colours that aren't representative of the Jedi.
Yes there are bright elaborate colours and designs in sources other than the movies from other eras which will be dealt with in other standards. This being Prequel Jedi however, bright, loud colours are not permitted. The Jedi of this era are humble almost monastic in their fashion choices. The colour palette provided, allows you to recreate any costume that has been seen during this era including the more colourful Jedi such as Shaak Ti or Barriss Offee ( ie Reds and purples ).

Following these standards allows a member to reproduce any Jedi they have seen in the prequels. The objective is to provide clear instructions to follow, that will result in more approvals and less denials.


Agreed. I like the color palette, it's well done.
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