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[New] Prequel Jedi
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sarah_d (sarah drummond)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

personally, those styles are only seen on characters with costumes that are totally different to what this standard is proposing.

So I'd be in favour of removing the centrally located tabbard under the obi and keeping the two over the shoulder tabbards as that is what is seen with this style of costume - OT, Obi etc

But that's just my opinion.........
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the single tabard below the obi isn't part of the costume style in the standard it should be totally removed from any proposed standard for this costume, IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought the single tab below obi was meant as normal tabs over the shoulders joining into one below the obi. I thought I had seen jedi wearing that, but I'm not sure. Anyone who has pictures of that? And I agree the leather tab without any over the shoulders part should be removed, I don't see it fitting into the tunic style jedi garb we are working on here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with removal of the single tabard unless we find some new reference.

On a different note, I know we're talking about voting on standards starting tomorrow, but I'd like to at least ask the question... Does anyone feel strongly at this point that Oraculo's updated version of Lora's proposal isn't the way to go? That one has been the most revised with recent discussion.

I recognize some disconnect between the title and sources being used (which Dannv addressed in his proposal), but I think there's some way that we could phrase the title/header so that we have the single continuous standard. Ultimately, I believe Dannv's and Oraculo/Lora's standards say the same thing, just group items differently. When a costume is approved, we don't even make note of what costume it is (other than Jedi), so I'm not sure the distinction matters.

Perhaps title it "Prequel Style Jedi" and then in the initial description, which seems to commonly come from Wookieepedia, we note: "This costume standard encompasses styles seen in Episodes I-III, prequel comics, and New Republic comics/books that include a typical Jedi tunic/tabard/obi combination."

Would that solve the problem that we appear to not know what we're talking about? (related to a Prequel Jedi standard with tabard borders - for example)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone.

It seems that everyone agrees to remove the proposals the possibility of using a unique tabard.

Regarding the title, Nick propose something like this?

Main Title: Prequel Jedi Style

Home Description: "This costume encompasses standard styles seen in Episodes I-III, prequel comics, and New Republic comics / Books that include a typical Jedi tunic / tabard / obi combination."


I like the title and description.

Regarding Lora's proposals and Lora's proposed with modifications, we can merge them into one because the only difference is that some elements that were optional become mandatory. The Tabard only have to remove the two proposals.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest something similar... but changed the order of a few words. Certainly other sources could be added to the description, those were just the ones I thought of that we'd talked about.

Main Title: Prequel Style Jedi

Home Description: "This costume standard encompasses styles seen in Episodes I-III, prequel comics, and New Republic comics / Books that include a typical Jedi tunic / tabard / obi combination."


I didn't know if Dannv or Cobalt (or anyone else really) felt strongly enough in the differences with their submissions to warrant voting on it, or if we'd gotten to some kind of general compromise with the recent changes and this header. Nothing wrong with voting, I just wanted to ask to be sure there was still a need.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done!

The point of one tabard was removed from in the proposals. Also these two proposals I changed the Title by "Prequel Jedi Style" and I added the description (in the description I added videogames and animated series as The Clone Wars)

Dannv's proposal and Cobalt's neither change. If they want to modify the titles and we put the main description, I modified them too.

http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=783865#783865

Best Regards!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I will admit, none of the characters seen with the below the belt only style of tabards are wearing what could be described as the 'standard' Jedi garb of IT,OT etc. However the standards already have in them deviation from this 'standard' Jedi look. I fail to see why this slight deviation cannot also be included.

As far as I can determine, Adi Gallia is the only Jedi of the Prequel Era to have a woven belt. This belt features a different buckle and construction style than the 'standard' Jedi belt. As the new standards potentially will make the food capsules a required item, this would put a costumer who wishes to do this style of belt in the odd position of having to add to it an item, that based on screen evidence, it should not have.

Ki Adi Mundi's robe also doesn't fit the 'standard' Jedi look. Unlike any other Jedi, his robe is worn with the belt and obi over the robe, not under like the 'standard' Jedi look. It also seems to be worn without food capsules.

I am also not aware of any Jedi that uses a leather or pleather obi. All the ones I am familiar with are cloth obis.

What is it about these looks, deviations on the 'standard' Jedi look, that makes it acceptable to use them, but not the below the belt style of tabards? There are twice as many Jedi with the under the belt only style as tabards as there are with the Adi Gallia style belt, Shaak Ti and Luminara compared to just Adi Gallia.(Four times as many if you include Aalya Secura and Ashoka as well.) There are an equal mumber of examples of the Ki Adi Mundi style of robe as there are the under the belt only tabards, Ki Adi Mundi and Sarrissa Jeng to Shaak Ti and Luminara, again unless you count Aalya Secura and Ashoka.

The below the belt only tabards are seen on multiple characters from multiple races in the Prequel movies. Obviously, the costume designers thought this style was Jedi enough to include, and by appearing on multiple characters, this proves it is not just a face character one off. As we have just as many references for this style of tabard, as the other deviations from the 'standard' Jedi look, I feel it has just as much reason to be included as the deviations already in the standards.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone.

We are with an uncertainty at these points. We should do a final check to give final adjustment to the proposals.

I propose as a final solution as follows:

-The point about single front tabard: we put as an optional element with a proposal that I proposed, like that:

"A single front tabard, centrally located below the obi, is permitted.

At this point, two options are allowed:

Variant A: The Tabard style used by Luminara Unduli. It is a unique tabard that starts from the Obi with a length that reaches the ankles. No tabard or tabards from the shoulders to the Obi.

Variant B: The Tabard style used by Ayla Secura and Ahsoka Tano. It is a unique tabard that starts from Obi but very short (reaches half of the thighs (12 inches)). The Tabard has a triangle-shaped termination. No tabard or tabards from the shoulders to the Obi.

*No Food Capsules "

-The Issue of capsules of food, we put as an optional element

What do you think?

This standard is Generic Jedi. It is quite difficult to include all the elements that we see in various characters in the EU and movies.

It is my opinion Wink Wink

Best Regards!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My preference is to remove the option for a single front tabard below the belt and keep the food capsules as required.

Luminara, Ayla Secura, and Ahsoka do not come close to fitting the general tunic/obi/tabards style that we're trying to describe in this standard. They're certainly viable as face characters, but they don't fit this specific style much like TOR Jedi costumes beyond Tython aren't included in the SWTOR generic. We need to focus on costumes that share a majority of components.

Also, I just want to note that I disagree with categorizing the single front tabard as a "slight deviation". It changes the silhouette of the costume and removes a major component, which, to me, is a far more significant than any of the details we've discussed up to this point (belt styles, tabard trim, etc). These are simply different costumes.
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Oraculo (Agustin)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rogue9607 wrote:
My preference is to remove the option for a single front tabard below the belt and keep the food capsules as required.

Luminara, Ayla Secura, and Ahsoka do not come close to fitting the general tunic/obi/tabards style that we're trying to describe in this standard. They're certainly viable as face characters, but they don't fit this specific style much like TOR Jedi costumes beyond Tython aren't included in the SWTOR generic. We need to focus on costumes that share a majority of components.

Also, I just want to note that I disagree with categorizing the single front tabard as a "slight deviation". It changes the silhouette of the costume and removes a major component, which, to me, is a far more significant than any of the details we've discussed up to this point (belt styles, tabard trim, etc). These are simply different costumes.


Very good justification. If no changes until later, the proposals remain as they are currently.

Best Regards!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oraculo, that proposal is excellent, thank you for writing it up and I appreciate you considering my suggestions.

rogue9607 wrote:
My preference is to remove the option for a single front tabard below the belt and keep the food capsules as required.

Luminara, Ayla Secura, and Ahsoka do not come close to fitting the general tunic/obi/tabards style that we're trying to describe in this standard. They're certainly viable as face characters, but they don't fit this specific style much like TOR Jedi costumes beyond Tython aren't included in the SWTOR generic. We need to focus on costumes that share a majority of components.

Also, I just want to note that I disagree with categorizing the single front tabard as a "slight deviation". It changes the silhouette of the costume and removes a major component, which, to me, is a far more significant than any of the details we've discussed up to this point (belt styles, tabard trim, etc). These are simply different costumes.


Nick, yes the change of silhouette occurs, but how is that change any more significant than the difference between the change you get when wearing a robe like Ki Adi Mundi's as opposed to the more normal style of robes?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antar Bolt wrote:
What is it about these looks, deviations on the 'standard' Jedi look, that makes it acceptable to use them...


IMO, they should all go. If we're going to claim to do costumes based on something, they should be based on it. I tried to get a good deal closer, but the other option is as wrong as what we have now. Pretty sad, if you ask me for what is supposed to be the preeminent good guy costuming club.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oraculo wrote:
I propose as a final solution as follows:

-The point about single front tabard: we put as an optional element with a proposal that I proposed, like that:

(snip)

-The Issue of capsules of food, we put as an optional element

What do you think?

This standard is Generic Jedi. It is quite difficult to include all the elements that we see in various characters in the EU and movies.

It is my opinion Wink Wink

Best Regards!


IMO, this is allowing things in costumes that aren't there in any source for the style costume we're supposedly recreating. I would have hoped the RL would be better than this, but it appears not.

The Generic or prequel Jedi should be based on prequel materials. Anything else isn't a prequel costume. It really is that simple.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antar Bolt wrote:

Nick, yes the change of silhouette occurs, but how is that change any more significant than the difference between the change you get when wearing a robe like Ki Adi Mundi's as opposed to the more normal style of robes?


Honestly, I would say that Ki Adi Mundi's style is outside of this general style as well... but I know I'm on the stricter interpretation end of the spectrum. Though, he's far closer to this standard than Luminara, Aayla, or Ahsoka. He at least has a tunic and tabards... for the other three, the similarities really end after boots, lightsaber, and some form of clothing. Razz
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