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Pilot Jaina Solo - Required elements?
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Princess Liz Fett (Liz Welsh)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:53 am    Post subject: Pilot Jaina Solo - Required elements? Reply with quote

Hello all!

I know that there aren't any standards for Jaina's Pilot gear, so I was just wondering if there was a basic list of required elements. Should I just follow the standards for a generic X-wing Pilot and add the lightsaber?
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DroidWelder ()
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that this is required or anything, but I recently built a Jaina chestbox for someone, and the usable images that I based it on, resemble the Luke Visual Dictionary chest box, but with all three white square buttons.




David L.


Last edited by DroidWelder () on Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HazardThree (Jon Paulson)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're correct that there are no approved standards (mainly due to incomplete ref. pics), but here's what we've used to approve Jaina Solo pilots in the past...

- X-wing gear per ANH X-wing Costume Standard
- Loose, long brown hair (as a face character, hair must match)
- lightsaber (if bladed, must be purple blade)
- X-wing helmet in standard Luke design (minus rebel birds) or with purple mohawk stripe.

We've actually got something written down in a potential thread but I'll have to find it. Mainly it's what I have above.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm painting one for someone. Two questions...
-Where is the source for the purple stripe? I can't find anything.
-That animated statuette of Jaina just gave her Luke's helmet. Is this acceptable?

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every published image contradicts a) every other image and b) Screen Used costume items



Vest is wrong, flight suit is wrong and according to the caption on wookiepedia "Jaina Solo, pretending to be the Trickster Goddess." so it's not her normal appearance.


Nothing on this costume has ever been seen in the films. You would have to provide enough images to provide "a complete 360 degree view" and submit as a new "EU" costume.



"Artist's Impression"
Vest is completely wrong - no back to the vest at all! no gap, strap loops around the neck and does not connect to a back, side clasps are missing but since there isn't a back half to attach... - chestbox is missing buttons, boots are two different sizes, flight suit is strangely proportioned - overall about three sizes too big, it looks like if you zip up the front the collar will sit above her eyebrows, the leg pockets are as long as her upper arms, her hips are almost twice as wide as her shoulders, leg straps appear to be almost 4" wide (measured against the standard 1" chestbox button), the upper third of the leg flares and holder have been cut off, etc.
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DroidWelder ()
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just my opinion, take it however you wish.

The one thing that all three of these images has in common is that she is clearly wearing an X-wing pilot outfit that is based on what we see in the movies. There is no mistaking it for anything else.

Even knowing that the artists were wildly inaccurate with the details, we all recognize what it is. All the same components are visible. (Orange Jumpsuit, white vest, chest box, belt, harness, boot flares, gloves, arm tools, ect..)

Do you seriously expect to get a high amount of detail from an anime figure, or a comic book artist's stylized "interpretation" of the character??? I think such expectations are far too high for something that is so clearly recognizable.
The artists are not that concerned with getting every detail correct. Their job is to give something for the readers of the books to look at. These images were never meant to be scrutinized in the way you are suggesting they should be.

I don't really see any out of place components that have been added to the normal gear that we see on the pilots. (other than the lightsaber)
So I think that any approved costume for this character would be based on the cannon accurate components. And if she's a Jedi, or at least a Jedi in training, then I would think allowing the lightsaber with the costume would be appropriate.

David L.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a few Pilot Jaina Solos approved before as formal (within the last year I believe) so the costume should still be eligible for formal approval right?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DroidWelder wrote:
...The artists are not that concerned with getting every detail correct. Their job is to give something for the readers of the books to look at. These images were never meant to be scrutinized in the way you are suggesting they should be.

David L.


The RL Charter has a big loophole in Article II "or Lucasfilm Licensed Media (TV, books, games, etc.) as it would appear in those materials. "
Unfortunately, it has been taken as a literal statement to allow submission of a costume exactly duplicating the licensed source as depicted/described.

We (the judges) have had some heated disagreements with applicants, and in a few rare cases finally had to get the LMO involved.

Personally, my rule #1 is "Film trumps all". If an item has appeared on screen, that's what it needs to look like. However, that is not a written RL rule or standard.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this topic I was writing a proposition for a CRL on this costume :

Ste-Waz Sandoli wrote:
I had a look to te 17 pages of this topic, maybe I haven't got an eagle eye, but it seems there is no CRL for Jaina Solo in X-Wing pilot outfits.

I help a friend who is going to join us to make her costume, so I submit here the following CRL founded on standard X-wing pilot CRL, Jaina's pics and statues (and edited and modified after the LCJ answer to her validation) :

Jaina Solo X-Wing Pilot Costume Standards

Required Items:

1. Orange flightsuit with mandarin-style collar and pointed tab, code cylinder pocket on upper-middle left arm, rectangular pocket with a flap closure on upper-middle right arm, comm pad pocket on outside of left forearm above wrist, and thigh pockets (upper set required, lower set optional). No visible zippers or snaps.
2. Mid-calf black boots (Jack boots or engineer boots are acceptable. Leather pull-on style preferred with low heels. No laces. No ankle buckles (small buckle at top edge of boot allowable if covered by blousing). No non-black zippers. Any zipper closure must either be hidden or on the inside calf. No zippers on front or outside calf of boots. High-Calf boots are acceptable with sufficient blousing of the flighsuit legs.
3. Silver/grey leg flares in an olive drab or black leg-band holder. Maximum of 8 flares per holder. Flares should be approximately 4" long.
4. Light grey/silver grey ejection harness and web belt, all 2” wide.
5. White flak vest with accurate ribbing and clasps. Vest sizing should be proportional to the wearer.
6. Accurately sized grey chest box with accurate decoration (raised buttons (acrylic preferred, see the Pilot Forums for acceptable button color schemes), separated rocker switches, appropriate materialed greebles, pin stripes etc.). 1" - 1.75" diameter grey hose or aviation hose should attach at the left-bottom of the chestbox and connect to the suit in some screen-accurate manner (tucked up into the flak vest, attached to flightsuit, etc.). (Please note that Costumebase chestboxes will not pass the standards unmodified, however once slightly modified, they will meet standards.)
7. 3 Metallic silver Code Cylinders (Arm Tools) in left shoulder pocket. Cylinder heads showing should resemble accurate representations.
8. Black gauntlet-style gloves (flared leather or pleather preferred, cloth or rubber gloves will not meet standards).
9. Accurate Comm Pad (size, details, 3-dimensional, coloration, etc.) visible in the comm pad pocket.
10. Mi-lenght or long brown hairs (wig admitted)
11. light brown eyes (lens admitted)
12. Lightsaber hilt (not toy)
13. X-Wing helmet with character decoration. (#1 - Same paint job as Luke's but with no Rebel Birds (red and white paintjob) ; #2 - Purple stripes going down the Mohawk, no birds (purple and white paintjobs) ; #3 - (proposed statue) Luke's helmet.


Formal Requirements :
You must have at least one of the following items to be accepted:

1. Mini-flares on belt. A mix of filled and empty slots are okay.
3. Accurate belt buckle on web belt.


Optionnal :
1. If illuminated blade lightsaber the colour of the blade id purple (MR or hasbro FX Mace Windu's lightsaber is allowed)
2. white sleeveless tee-shirt (Bishoujo version)


And Mac Bragg made this very interesting proposition :

Mac Bragg wrote:
How about -

Jaina Solo X-Wing Pilot Costume Standards

Required Items:

1. X-Wing Pilot Costume described here with the following changes and additions:
a. Shoulder length brown hair (wig acceptable)
b. Light brown eyes (colored lenses acceptable)
c. Lightsaber as described in Jedi Costume Standards (Generic) described here EXCEPTION: No Double Bladed sabers are permitted with this costume.
d. REQUIRED: X-Wing helmet with your choice of the paint and marking combinations as described below (Choose one)
1. Same paint and markings as Luke "Red 5"
2. Same paint and markings as Luke "Red 5" but with no Rebel Birds (red and white paintjob)
3. Purple stripes on "Rams Horns", Yellow stripes on "Mohawk", no birds, "Sliced Onions", "V" markings, etc. (purple and white paintjobs)


Formal Requirements :
As the helmet is a REQUIRED item for this costume, you must have one of the other two items described in the X-Wing pilot standard to be accepted:

1. Mini-flares on belt. A mix of filled and empty slots are okay.
2. Accurate belt buckle on web belt.


Optionnal :
1. If illuminated, blade color is purple (MR or Hasbro FX Mace Windu's lightsaber is allowed)
2. White sleeveless tee-shirt (Bishoujo version)


Reference pics :

Source : Japanese cover of Enemy Lines I : Rebel Dream (find on wookiepedia) taken from here. CAUTION: Vest/Upper Harness as shown in this picture is not accurate. Refer to actual screen used items or X-Wing Pilot costume standards.


Source : Wookiepedia ; Star Wars Gamer 5 : The Crystal. CAUTION: Vest/Upper Harness, "Chestbox", belt, and buckle as shown in this picture are not accurate. Refer to actual screen used items or X-Wing Pilot costume standards.



The box of the Kotobukia's Bishoujo Statue Art. CAUTION: Vest/Upper Harness, "Chestbox", and Pockets on the coveralls as shown in this picture are not accurate. Refer to actual screen used items or X-Wing Pilot costume standards.


This way, the standard automatically stays current with any changes made to both the X-Wing Pilot and Jedi (Generic), without having to go back and rewrite this standard.

Since this costume is a slight variant of the X-Wing Pilot, the X-Wing standards should be applied, with the changes and exceptions listed.


It is not an official C.R.L., but I am sur it can help you to build your costume.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about considering this:

If there is no definitive, specific, canon version of the costume, then there isn't sufficient information to create a costume standard. So it would be an informal costume.

I'm all for informal costumes, think they have a valuable purpose in the club, and should be just as excellent as formal. So I'm certainly not trying to downplay the value of the costume.

The missing / conflicting references for Coran Horn XWing pilot was one of the key motivations for me proposing the amendment last year - so that no other costumes get stuck in the kind of limbo that one did.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theeviltwin wrote:
How about considering this:

If there is no definitive, specific, canon version of the costume, then there isn't sufficient information to create a costume standard. So it would be an informal costume.


Just playing Devil's Advocate here:
I think there is a canon version of the costume. Just not the character.

I think for two of the Jaina images, the artists used a copy of this image as their reference.



The helmet is the same on both and the chest box is essentially the same on the Anime image and the only difference on the more realistic image of Jaina has the missing white square included. They are clearly copied from that Luke image. No other chest box has details like that one.
Even the vest looks very similar to the Luke Image. (The vest is on backwards in the Luke image.)

I know that the pre-production Luke image has it's inaccuracies, but if the two jaina images were based off of it, It's more than an informal costume. I'm pretty sure that the Luke costume is the same one used for filming the movie. (just with details changed a bit.)

David L.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dark Side grows stronger every time that picture is referenced Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem if you want to treat those images of Jaina the same as the pre-production Luke image.

My point is that unlike other EU characters that have no actual physical costume behind them, This one actually has some basis for the costume being connected to what has already been established with the films.
The artists didn't just pull the costume out of thin air. They didn't make anything new here.
And I think that nit picking over the inconsistencies of comic book / cartoon images is really unnecessary in this case.

I really don't see why there would be an issue with making the costume formal as long as it meets the ANH pilot requirements.

If a Jaina pilot costume is shown in one of the new films at some point, then you LCJ's can fuss over what the standard should be when the time comes. Smile

Again, just my opinion.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, allowing Jaina Solo as a formal costume gives female X-wing pilots another option besides "Generic" and Dorovio Bold (who was entirely cut from ROTJ and basically exists in one still picture, so nobody's ever heard of her).



I agree that the intention of all those pictures seems to be a Luke pilot costume with a purple lightsaber, long brown hair, and some variation in the helmet.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the CRL for this to be a formal costume ever likely to be finalised? (What with upcoming films and new LFL/Disney requirements...)
Or
Is it already finalised and I just can't find the CRL?
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