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Request help with TCSS saber

 
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Skywalker2B ()
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:42 am    Post subject: Request help with TCSS saber Reply with quote

My daughter needs a blue bladed saber for her Jysella Horn costume that she'll use to join the RL (as a generic jedi of course). So, I had her go to TCSS's site and build one using their MHS Builder. Here's what she came up with:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82610186@N06/11743317545/

The problem is that I've never had a custom saber built and don't know much about it. I use a Hasbro Kit Fisto for mine. So, I could use some help/advice. Here's what she wants:

- A blue blade in the above hilt.
- Doesn't have to be dualing, but would like it to be as bright as possible without being too expensive.
- Would also like the extending/retracting effect.
- Basic sounds only such as on/off, hum, and clash.
- If the sound would add a lot of $$$, could that be added later?
- When the blade is not in the saber is there an insert/place holder to make it look solid like my Kit Fisto saber has?
- I don't really know what all to get other than the hilt pieces.

Any help with this would be appreciated.
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lgtsbr ()



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have gathered once you add light AND sound, you need a sound board, I believe TCSS sells the Petit Crouton here:

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Petit-Crouton-Sound-Module-V3-P893.aspx

My understanding is you would need a chassis of some kind in the saber body to house the board, a color extender for the actual blade color, and then a battery/power supply in the hilt. My understanding is rudimentary at best as I have a friend I turn to when I need something like this done. With a bit of research and patience you would be able to do it yourself i'm sure.

One place you might want to take a look at is FX Sabers or IRA, both places specialize in exactly what you are looking to do:

http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php

http://imperialroyalarms.com/

Of course, there are other options out there, but the price starts rising. Once you get into the Crystal Focus realm, now you are talking powerhouse Wink. I actually plan to use the Igniter Mini for a install of my own later this year.

I hope this helps a bit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice design Smile

i would recommend a PC. I've only used 2.0 but the new 3.0 looks like a good option now.

you'll need a chassis, compatible battery and 2w speaker. i'd recommend a nice powerful stick based battery, chassis and v4 speaker holder.

to join it all together you'll need some 4/40 threaded rod to cut to the right size, some nuts to fit and brass/alu tube to make it look nice.

so basic list of bits to think about

# battery
# chassis (2 x discs normally)
# sound board
# speaker sorted

# LED/luxeon - tri-star, p4, cree, etc.. - you can get led modules which include the module that fits in the bottom of the blade adapter, led, heatsink and lens.
# recharge port
# switch for power on/off
# aux switch
# power extender board - if you want FoC/flash on clash
# wiring (use small gauge multi-strand wiring. single core wire is too unforgiving when twisting and bending it around
# some soldering skills

the blade you would get the best bang for buck from would be a 1" medium thickness. nice brightness but sturdy enough to take a good whack.

my ANH luke runs the above setup. the led is a tri-star rebel BBW (the white was for FoC but I hadn't wired it up when I was testing it so its just running 2 x blue dies)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYXHS_kfOYo


the extend/retract would be hard to do with this type of blade. an led string would give a better effect but unless you're in slothfurnaces realms of wiring 00s of leds together it's not worth it just for that. plus i wouldn't have thought it would be as durable (that's just a guess)

you can however, with the PC set ramping power ons, flickering, accent leds etc.. it is very configuable so you could get a nice effect as it powers on and the light fills the blade. you can see it nicely as my saber powers off, it kind of shrinks inwards.

swing sensors, clash etc.. are all configurable as well.

blade will be just held in with a grub screw, you can remove it and stick a plug in there when carrying or storing it if you so wish.

you can also load your own saber font so it sounds like you want it to. plenty are available out there. with the PC though you can only have one at a time loaded. it has 2 free options. light meat or dark meat which sound very much like the anh luke and vader sabers.

hope that helps.
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rogue9607 (Nick)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Request help with TCSS saber Reply with quote

Skywalker2B wrote:
Here's what she wants:

- A blue blade in the above hilt.
- Doesn't have to be dualing, but would like it to be as bright as possible without being too expensive.
- Would also like the extending/retracting effect.
- Basic sounds only such as on/off, hum, and clash.
- If the sound would add a lot of $$$, could that be added later?
- When the blade is not in the saber is there an insert/place holder to make it look solid like my Kit Fisto saber has?
- I don't really know what all to get other than the hilt pieces.

Any help with this would be appreciated.


I've used the Nano Biscotte sound card with great success in a couple of builds now and suggest that as another option. It has the basic functionality that you describe while omitting some of the features of the PC or CF boards. Just for background, some of the omissions are sounds for blade lockup, force push, blaster reflection, variable ignition sounds based on hilt position, alternate color flash on clash. The NB has ignition, retraction, 8 swing sounds, and 4 (?) clash sounds. It takes the same sound fonts as the other cards too (ignoring the additional sounds). It doesn't have the constant current driver for the LED that the other cards have, but I just built a saber with a blue LED that doesn't require a driver or resistor when used with the appropriate battery. Which also reminds me, the NB has different power requirements than the PC or CF. It's designed to work off a single 3.7v battery and has a deep sleep function that eliminates the need for a kill key.

Wow, that was a lot of info in one shot. Let me know if you want me to go into more details or link specific TCSS parts.

This list is rather daunting, but I wouldn't be intimidated by it if you have any experience with electronics or a desire to learn. To accomplish what you describe, my suggestion would be a NB sound card, speaker, 18650 battery, momentary switch, Recharge port, blue LED, lens, lens holder, heat sink, wire, clear blade tube, blade cap, blade plug (for a solid hilt w/o blade), chassis rings for 18650/NB, appropriate battery chargers, set screw/thumb screw (to hold the blade in the emitter) , and thermal tape from TCSS plus some glue and clear gift wrap from a craft store, and a soldering iron/solder..

The above would give you a blue saber with light and sound that would probably be fine with any dueling short of martial arts usage. The only thing it wouldn't have is a true extend/retract effect. The light fades on/off to give a similar effect, but you'd need to wire a bunch of LEDs down the blade to get a better effect which would be much harder than the "glorified flashlight" of most custom sabers. (they do make good flashlights fwiw)

If you wanted to keep sound out of it for now, you could add it in later with a little bit of work. You'd eliminate the sound card and speaker from my list and replace the momentary switch with a latching switch.

On the design, I like it, though there're a couple of items I want to mention. I think the "grenade" section that's in the main grip has a smaller inner diameter than many of the pieces. This could preclude the use of the standard chassis disks. Just make sure there's room in there for all the parts since it gets cramped fast. Also, the Female-female connector looks to be the logical place for a switch. I'd suggest checking with Tim (TCSS owner) to see if he can drill/tap that for the type of switch you'd want to use. Also, unless you have the tooling to do it, I recommend having Tim drill/tap a hole in the emitter for the blade retention screw.

OK, so that got a lot longer than I intended. I can clarify or go into more detail on any of it and provide links to the parts I'm talking about. Also... Feel free to ignore this if not helpful Smile

It sounds complicated, but really isn't bad when you go step-by step.
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Jedi of Poker (Tim {T.J.} Balski)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Request help with TCSS saber Reply with quote

rogue9607 wrote:
I've used the Nano Biscotte sound card with great success... The NB has ignition, retraction, 8 swing sounds, and 4 (?) clash sounds... the NB has different power requirements than the PC or CF. It's designed to work off a single 3.7v battery and has a deep sleep function that eliminates the need for a kill key.

...my suggestion would be a NB sound card, speaker, 18650 battery, momentary switch, Recharge port, blue LED, lens, lens holder, heat sink, wire, clear blade tube, blade cap, blade plug (for a solid hilt w/o blade), chassis rings for 18650/NB, appropriate battery chargers, set screw/thumb screw (to hold the blade in the emitter) , and thermal tape from TCSS plus some glue and clear gift wrap from a craft store, and a soldering iron/solder..

The above would give you a blue saber with light and sound that would probably be fine with any dueling short of martial arts usage. The only thing it wouldn't have is a true extend/retract effect. The light fades on/off to give a similar effect...

On the design, I like it, though there're a couple of items I want to mention. I think the "grenade" section that's in the main grip has a smaller inner diameter than many of the pieces. This could preclude the use of the standard chassis disks. Just make sure there's room in there for all the parts since it gets cramped fast. Also, the Female-female connector looks to be the logical place for a switch. I'd suggest checking with Tim (TCSS owner) to see if he can drill/tap that for the type of switch you'd want to use. Also, unless you have the tooling to do it, I recommend having Tim drill/tap a hole in the emitter for the blade retention screw.

It sounds complicated, but really isn't bad when you go step-by step.
Wise counsel, young master... I concur with all of Nick's comments & advice.

In regard to that ribbed section- it does indeed have a thinner ID & it WILL not accept the standard TCSS chassis disc system; a custom chassis system will have to be devised for housing a NB or PC in that section. Adding an 18650 into that section will be very cramped- I will suggest devising an in-hilt recharge to eliminate any chance of battery/boards damage from battery removal.

p.s. I'm not the owner of TCSS...
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Skywalker2B ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! A lot a very good, and detailed, advice here. Awesome! That is exactly what I was hoping for. And, yes, it does sound extremely intimidating.

I will have to do some more extensive research, but it looks like, for financial reasons, will have to forgo the sound card until a later date. But, when I do, it looks like the NB is all I'll need.

Well, I'm not an electrician, and I've never soldered anything, but, fortunately, I have a dad that has and would probably love to teach me.

That stinks about the grip ID being smaller and requiring non-standard parts. *shrug* but it does look better than the other options..IMHO. And being that it's for my daughter...well...fathers, you know what I'm talking about.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skywalker2B wrote:
That stinks about the grip ID being smaller and requiring non-standard parts. *shrug* but it does look better than the other options..IMHO. And being that it's for my daughter...well...fathers, you know what I'm talking about.
All is not lost...
Experiment with a re-design and consider a different section to replace the ribbed section; you might find something even better that what you have already... don't be afraid to use your imagination...
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rogue9607 (Nick)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm back to a desktop (instead of tablet) and I'll post some better links.

There are certainly variables to consider, like the addition of sound later, but for the design you showed, here's my suggestion for the build starting with the pommel end.

It looks like you selected pommel style 6 (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MPS-Pommel-style-6-P295.aspx) which would hold insert 6 (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MPS-Insert-style-6-P263.aspx) (coincidence that the style numbers match) which has threads for a recharge port (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/21mm-Power-Jack-P37.aspx). The insert could be held in with a clip from TCSS or glue. I know it's not part of the saber, but this charger should work with this setup (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/37V-Li-ion-smart-charger-with-21mm-plug-P890.aspx).

For the grip, you have the ribbed extension (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MHS-ribbed-extension-P245.aspx) plus the 2" double female extension (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/2-Double-female-threaded-connector-P121.aspx). I'm not positive if Tim could drill/tap the 2" extension for a switch, but I suggest asking (my guess is he could). The switch would need to be a "latching" switch (toggles on/off with each press rather than "momentary" which is only on while pressed and off when released) such as this (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/SPST-Latching-Guarded-switch-with-blue-button-P259.aspx). I'd confirm the switch fitting when inquiring about the drill/tap.

The ID of the ribbed section is 1.15" instead of the standard 1.25" that the chassis disks are intended for. Thankfully, an 18650 battery is < .75", so you'd have room for wires to run along side a battery glued to the wall of the tube. I know it's not glamorous, but it works... Smile TCSS has an 18650 with wires already connected (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Panasonic-Li-Ion-18650-37V-3400mAh-PCB-Protected-Rechargeable-Battery-P853.aspx), though you'd need a matching JST connector to tie it into the rest of the wiring, or cut the connector off. Alternatively, this is essentially the same battery without the wires (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NEW-PANASONIC-NCR18650B-LI-ION-BATTERY-3400mAh-3-7v-18650-JAPAN-PCB-PROTECTED-/370964822188?), though it would require soldering to the battery which isn't the easiest solder joint.

OK, now onto the choke that looks like style 3 (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MHS-choke-style-3-P313.aspx). Initially this would be empty with the exception of wires running to the LED. If you wanted to add a Nano Biscotti later, it should fit in this section with room for wires above and below, but that would require a momentary switch and some place for a speaker... I think you could fit the speaker between the recharge port in the pommel and the battery, but it'd be *really* tight and may require some modification (speaker is 1.1" and the ribbed section is 1.15", giving 0.05" to run three wires). Anyway, I think it would be possible, but not part of the initial build.

Between the choke and the blade holder (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Screw-on-LED-blade-holder-style-24-P743.aspx), you'd have the heat sink/LED module. You could get the heat sink, LED, thermal tape, lens, lens holder, and wire it all up, or get the pre-made module that's ~$10 more (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Rebel-Star-LED-MHS-Heatsink-Module-P653.aspx) and not have to solder the LED (another tricky joint). I'd go with "Luxeon Rebel Star (Blue)" since you could avoid adding a resistor or constant current driver.

I'd suggest adding the drill/tap service for a blade retention screw, along with the screw itself.

For the blade, I suggest the clear thin walled tube (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/1-Thin-walled-Polycarbonate-40-long-P151.aspx) and add ~5' (yes, feet) of clear gift wrap rolled up and slid inside (rolling around a small dowel/rod works well). I like to get the full 40" blade and cut myself using a standard power miter saw, which gives the ability to fine tune length, but TCSS can also cut it for you. The tip can be either bullet (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Bullet-shaped-tip-for-1-thin-walled-blades-P361.aspx) or round (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Shouldered-1-thin-walled-blade-tip-with-reflective-disc-P138.aspx) based on preference.

I think that's all the parts aside from a bit of grease for the threads, wire, solder, and maybe a JST connector or two depending on preference.

I hope that helps. The TCSS forums have a ton of information, but it's hard, or at least was for me, to find information in one place.
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Skywalker2B ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, guys, for all of the info. I looked into TCSS because I thought it'd be pretty easy, but it doesn't look like that is the case. *phew* I've always thought that people that build custom sabers are really awesome and now I have an even higher respect for them!

I've only got the price the MHS shows me when I select the parts (I think it's somewhere in the upper 80's to mid 90's), and we (my daughter and I) didn't really select the pieces for function, just by how they looked. For example, the pummel, she just liked the rounded end so we just picked one. And the 2" extension is only because the "grenade" grip alone made it look too short. Her and I are short people, so she didn't want a long hilt, but also didn't want a yoda hilt either. I just am trying to explain the choices that we made in selecting the pieces.

Thank you for all of the links. I'm a visual person, so I'll need to see the parts in order to get a better idea of how it'll all fit together. I think I'll try to see if I can find a youtube video or something showing someone putting one together to give me an even better idea what to do.

Wow...I still can't get over the amount of help you guys provided here! Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skywalker2B wrote:
Thank you, guys, for all of the info. I looked into TCSS because I thought it'd be pretty easy, but it doesn't look like that is the case. *phew* I've always thought that people that build custom sabers are really awesome and now I have an even higher respect for them!

it is pretty easy once you've done it a couple of times Smile

well.. installing electronics etc.. is.

machining custom parts is what has me amazed; even if i had access to the tools i doubt i could make things as clean as they do.

a TCSS/MHS saber is as simple as buying parts and screwing them together. adding electronics requires some skill but nothing too specialised.

to keep the price down if you just want to add light you can do it with a battery pack, latching switch, led + module + thermal pad, resister or 'buckpuck' and some wire. VERY simple wiring required there.

i saw a nice simple vid on that..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s322OZ6GEtE

that'll do for a nice cheap starter version.

you can then decide to add sound via soundboard at your leisure
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of high end options being suggested here.

I'm going to go the other route. I recommend getting a Master Replicas Force FX soundboard off of ebay for like $35 and wiring it up with your basic four-AA or four-AAA battery pack. If you want to be green, use NIMH rechargables.

FX boards are incredibly easy to wire up--you bundle all the negative LED wires into a single negative lead and everything else is pretty self-explanatory. There's a ton of wiring diagrams over at TCSS:

http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?8593-MR-Hasbro-FX-Wiring-Diagrams

I've had nothing but bad luck with the so-called "high end" sound boards (save for an Ultrasound 2.1 which everyone told me wouldn't work but works flawlessly). I recently completed a Luke Skywalker ESB saber build and after multiple failed efforts to get two different NB boards to work--with no success whatsoever--I was told that I'd have to send the boards back at my own expense to have them tested. I can't speak for the PC b/c that's out of my price range. If you've got the money to burn and are concerned about doing electronics yourself, TCSS has the modular wiring system, which looks nice but I'd recommend using ALL MWS parts and not trying to wire your own JST connectors.

In any case, the nice thing about the Force FX boards is that they simply work. They have sounds straight from the films, and most of us have little real use for blade flicker, flash on clash, blade lock, or custom sound fonts. Also, Force FX boards don't need a resistor.

A chassis is probably a good idea. I generally just insulate my boards to keep them from frying, but that's definitely not the best way to go. Since I only build for myself I don't worry about it too much. Again, TCSS sells the parts to build a chassis.

As far as LEDs go, I like the Tri-Rebel Royal Blue. I generally buy the pre-done module and either wire up a JST from the FX board or, if I don't plan on ever changing out the LED, just cut off the JST and solder it. The modules are nice because they have the optics already installed and slide into the hilt neatly.

For blades I like the TCSS translucent white blades, as they don't require diffusion and provide a pretty even lighting.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.
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Skywalker2B ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was finally able to check out most of the links you all supplied, as well as watched a couple youtube vids. I now feel less intimidated about doing this and will start placing orders soon. I think I'm going to hold off on the sound card for a bit since at most troops noone can hear the sound anyway.

Thanks for all of the advice and links. I suggest that this thread be made a sticky for future saber noobies.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youve already helped one nooby Very Happy The custom sabershop is really great thanks for sharing
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a couple of other thoughts to add to this...

I took this picture to show the jewels my wife added to her blades, but it also shows two of the blade styles mentioned in this post. The top two cells show the translucent white blade and the bottom two show the clear blade with ~5' of clear gift wrap as a diffuser. When off, the white blade just looks like a white tube while the clear/gift wrap appears reflective silver. When on, they both diffuse the light well. The white blade appears more opaque while the clear/gift wrap has more of a transparent glow. As a side note, the clear/gift wrap will show any dust/crinkles in the gift wrap.



Also, on the topic of sound, my personal saber doesn't have sound and I haven't had any troops where I wished it did. It's certainly a fun feature to have, but most troops are too noisy for it to be appearant.
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