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Yet another Y-Wing-WIP
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Yet another Y-Wing-WIP Reply with quote

I found that I had a bunch of questions and didn't want to litter up Jason's build thread...
so..
I guess I am starting my own thread here...


Being that I have a LOT of pieces of the Y-Wing costume already (borrowed from other costumes)...I figure I would give the Y-Wing Pilot a go.

First of all, I checked the Costume Standard and found that the helmet is optional.

For me...this is GREAT for several reasons.

First off I sincerely doubt that I would even wear this costume much...so I don't want to spend the time and money on the helmet. Cop out? Maybe...but for now, I don't have an interest to do the helmet.
I spent copious amounts of time on my Snowspeeder Pilot (making the jacket, making gloves, underhelmet and sculpting and moulding the wrist comm twice) and have worn it exactly one time. I spent an ungodly amount of time on the Naboo Pilot...and wore that one twice.....
so...I am being realistic here and not bothering with the helmet for now. Heck, when I wear my X-Wing Pilot I seem to end up carrying that bucket around and/or leaving it laying all over the place...have forgotten it once....lol..


Anyway...
I already have the flightsuit...
using my Hoth Tech/Yavin Tech/Hoth Hangar Trooper/Endor Gunner flightsuit...









I have my X-Wing Pilot gloves (though I have since replaced the gloves with a better pair than the ones in this photo), comm pad and boots.




I also have the gaiters I used for the Rebel Vanguard and Endor Gunner...





Starting with the gaiters...though similar...the ones I made for the Endor Gunner were not really correct...so I took those and modified them.
I am sure that the Y-Wing gaiters were very similar or possibly even the same as the Endor Gunner as I am sure that those characters costumes were just a collection of pieces from other costumed characters...the scenes ended up cut out in the end.

I removed the silver strapping at the top and made fabric strapping, moved it down and added the buckle. I also shortened them around an inch.


Here are the gaiters redone and ready to go on the X-Wing/RFT boots




The ejection harness and belt with mini-flares will be easy.



The real question is the vest.

When you look at the costume standard it calls for a "belly tube"...one of the last Y-Wings approved had no belly tube but rather a belly pouch.

So...which way to go on that?

That same Y-Wing Pilot also had several "window pockets/pockets" on the vest with greeblies not really seen on previous Y-Wings. I don't think there are any photos at all that get close enough to the vest to make out what those greeblies are....
I could be wrong on that..
so I might use some of the badges/greeblies I have made for other costumes that look similar to the ones utilized by Jeff.

I have been able to procure the "Motorola Pageboy" replica for the chest box....


Hose should also not be a problem ...I have a few theories on that...

so...



I did start the vest utilizing the pattern I made up when I put together this vest for Scott (Seven Skulls)...



This is what the vest looked like completed and ready for Scott to add the rest...




You will note that his is a vest with a belly tube....


With the acceptance of Jeff's Y-Wing Pilot costume with no belly tube and the statement from Scott Will (who actually SAW a Y-Wing vest) that Jeff's was the closest so far to the "real deal"...
that leaves me with the dilemma of matching Scott or matching Jeff....

so I decided to go right down the middle.

I am utilizing the same fabric that I made Scott's out of...
but going in the direction of Jeff's.

Here is the start of the vest...I started with the exact same pattern and fabric as Scott's








started the strapping for the back of the vest and tried to beef them up with cotton strapping and plastic in that center piece to help it hold shape...











So...
again...

my questions are:


Which vest?
Belly tube or belly pouch?

What/how many/where should vest pockets and greeblies look like and go?




and then there is this:

Skaught wrote:
I had a special opportunity to have lunch at Skywalker Ranch on Friday, which was followed up with a tour of the Lucasfilm archive. I was able to wander the aisles looking at all the things on the shelves from not only all six Star Wars films, but Indy movies and other productions as well.

Before the tour I had asked about the existence of the Y-Wing costume and was told they didn't have it. That was a bummer, since seeing the Y-Wing chest box/vest has been a hunt of mine for years. Call it my own "holy grail". But I was in the archive, so it wasn't much of a bummer. On the costume side of the archive, I was shown cabinet after cabinet of costumes on racks. One row had all the pilot flightsuits hanging up, followed by the Endor commando gear. When I got to the end, I saw a B-Wing chest box on a vest. Then I looked at the odd item next to it, and it only took me a second to realize what it was -- the Y-Wing vest! LFL doesn't even know they have three of them! I guess they haven't scrutized the tiny reference material available like we have, so they don't recognize the parts.

Yes, I was able to take photographs. I took LOTS of them, with closeups and various angles. One of the rules, though, is I can't post them online. So I'm afraid I can't share them with anyone unless they look at them on my phone or computer. However, I will make a point of drawing up in great detail what was on the vest.

First, the material is the same as the X-Wing vest. That white nylon material that reminds me of a sail. It was grungey white, so it looks darker than the original material would look otherwise.

No, there is NO cylinder or tube at the bottom. The whole vest is padded...even stuffed...and the bottom section especially, so it's a thick part which makes it bulge outwards.

There is no black strap across the front. What is creating that dark area are four greeblies. Electronics parts. The first on the far left is a oval shaped piece with three connection points where it would plug into something. I'll have to research this piece. The second is a Bendix connector with four prins, with a rectangular plate around it. Something close to this: http://www.eternalrollerz.com/TechArticles/Adex%20Dumps/AdelConnector.JPG . Next are two indetical square black pieces with I believe "Chenky" embossed on the. Hard to tell for sure. These have a protrusion at the top that is hard to describe. I'll have to draw it.

The black box at the top we've seen on screen, at least the top portion. However, one of the boxes is differently detailed. I think maybe this is the opposite side of the box, so it's just flipped over.

A pocket is sewn on the front right (the vest's right, when wearing it). Inside this pocket is inserted some kind of black object. One of them was in (I believe) backwards, which revealed a clip with a Motoroloa logo on it. It was a narrow piece.

On the pocket is a square circuit board. I have a theory about all these electronic parts, the Motorola object and the top black box. It reminds me of a radio. I wonder if the electronic parts came from it? Also, when I was Googling "Bendix Motorola", I got some interest results, including some that showed a radio hardness worn over the chest. Maybe this is an existing item?

Above the pocket, on the right side is where the hose connects. We've seen that in the Rebel Assault II cut scene.

On the side opposite the pocket is a yellow rectangle sewn on. On the rectangle is handwritten faux script. Looks a bit like fake Japanese.

At the bottom is a flap thatis riveted/bolted on at the top corners. On top of this is a white label stitched on with more handwritten faux script. However, one of them has a person's name and address. "Bram Wiley". Odd.

There is no back panel. The straps just come together and create a triangle shape by the way they're stitched togather.

There's a lot more to this and how it's put together, so I'll really need to sketch it out.

The A-Wing box is pretty much how we've been making them, but I got a better view of the details on the top, bottom and front. The soft pouch below the box does have a vacuformed plastic triangle piece that the hose connects to. It's a very rounded triangle, though, and the bottom point is very rounded and off center, toward the left (from the wearer's perspective).

The B-Wing chest box is the most well know, but I did get some close up details of the curcuit board on it and other greebies.

I also took a lot of photos of the A and B-Wing helmets from all sides and inside.

Oh...one more thing. The Y-Wing flight suit is light TAN, not gray!


Scott




I do have a tan flightsuit too....lol...

so...
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Last edited by Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte) on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HazardThree (Jon Paulson)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: the vest -- Go with the belly pouch, NOT the tube. I too have confimation from an eye witness that Birgie's is the closest to factual. Standards will be changing to reflect it as soon as we can figure out how to write up all the details.

Also, we've confirmation that the Motorola Pageboy is spot on accurate, so you're good there.
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tube is a tricky thing. The vest should definitely have the pouch, but in Return of the Jedi there is a pilot or two who has the tube as well as the pouch. I think one pilot has it attached to his vest and the other has it sitting next to him on the bench, if I remember correctly. I've even seen some pictures where you can see the tube on or with the pilot(s).
I'm not sure why all of the Y-wing pilots don't have that tube... I guess the prop-makers didn't make enough or something?

If anything, when the standards are rewritten, I'd say that the pouch is required but the tube is optional. But that's just me.

As for the flightsuit, I'm still not convinced that it's tan. It's never looked tan in any of the screen shots I've seen, not anywhere close to tan. And besides, if the flak vest is tan (or off-white, perhaps), too, it seems like the vest would just disappear into the flightsuit... You wouldn't really be able to see it because they'd both be relatively the same color... >>;;
Even in Rebel Assault II, where you get a pretty good up-close picture of a Y-wing pilot, his flightsuit is definitely gray.

I'm wondering if when the tan flightsuit was seen if it was just a trick of the lighting, or maybe fading or dirt, or maybe the flightsuit had gotten mixed up and switched around with another suit. Didn't the Yavin crew or something like that have tan coveralls? Maybe they got mixed up somehow in the archives?
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Outlaw10 (Jeff Harris)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex is right about the tube. There is one fuzzy picture where one pilot has a tube on his lap (not sure if it's attached) and the other has it sitting next to him. This is the only picture where I've ever seen a tube. Every other pilot seems to not have one. Until we know for certain what those tubes where, I say to not have them as part of the standards.
I also agree with Alex that the flight suits are gray. Every screen cap clearly shows a medium gray suit, as well as the film itself. But I think I can say with certainty what Skaught saw: Y-Wing costumes from Rebel Assault 2. In that game, the Y-Wing pilots were clearly wearing off-white/light-tan suits, probably the rebel tech suits used by the Yavin base crew. Considering every pilot costume was mismatched in that game, it stands to reason that the costumers pulled the wrong suit for the Y-Wings. I say keep the standard a gray suit.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok...
tube is out...

flightsuit.....
lol...

well...as someone who has endured through the gray vs tan thing for
Yavin Techs,
Hoth Techs,
and a few other Hoth costumes...
looking at photos and screen captures to determine color is pretty meaningless...

that I can assure you....
I honestly don't care who presents what photo....
gray can look like tan...
and tan can look like gray
depending on the shot...
the lighting...
and a dozen other factors...


For the Hoth Tech and Hangar Trooper I went to the "source" and asked one of the actors who wore the costume what color the flightsuit/jumpsuit was because in some photos it looked tan...
and in others it looked gray...
he answered that the jumpsuit he wore in ESB on Hoth was gray....

so....
honestly...
if Scott says that he saw it in person and it was tan...
I would have to go with that...

either way...
I have both color flightsuits because since the discussion about Yavin Techs was so "lively"
I did both colors....
lol...


I also have both white sport nylon fabric
and
beige/tan bottom weight twill for the vest...
either or....
doesn't make a difference to me since I have both fabrics in my stash....

to be honest...
I have a complete X-Wing flack vest cut out of the sport nylon and the one pattern piece is an awful lot like the top portion of the Y-Wing flak vest so I can use that and modify it...

I do thank all who do stop by to weigh in....
it does help a lot...
and I do value everyone's opinion
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Commander Cody (Jason R.)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not adding new to this discussion, but Phyllis is right when it comes to what appears on the screen and what the prop actually might be in the archives. ESB is a good example of how the camera work/editing of a film can change hues/tones, thus altering the colors.

Anyway, good to see another Y-Wing pilot in the works. The vest looks good so far, Phyllis.

Do you have enough 2" whit strapping? I might have some left-over after I make mine. Just waiting for my gray flightsuit to arrive Smile
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commander Cody wrote:


Do you have enough 2" whit strapping? I might have some left-over after I make mine. Just waiting for my gray flightsuit to arrive Smile


I think I am good....I got a bunch of white strapping left over from when I made Scott's belt and ejection harness...


Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason, I might need some of that strapping if you have enough left over. Let me know when you're done with it. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen the photos of an archived vest, its a pouch from the looks of it.

Just my 2 credits.

Can't wait to see it finished Phyllis.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I'm trying to argue about it, but if lighting and/or photography was turning a tan flightsuit gray, wouldn't it turn the gaiters and flak vest gray as well? The gaiters are definitely tan, and the flak vest seems to be a tan or off-white... If lighting is affecting the color of the flightsuit, why wouldn't it affect the color of everything else? Razz

And it seems like, with all of the different screen shots out there of Y-wing pilots, there would be a hint of a tan flightsuit in at least one of them. Granted most of the pictures are pretty crappy, but most of the pictures are taken in different lighting, different locations, different positions... and in all of them the flightsuit looks gray.

But that's just me. I don't want to start an argument about it or anything... Just sayin'... Smile


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HazardThree wrote:
Jason, I might need some of that strapping if you have enough left over. Let me know when you're done with it. Wink


Will do, Jon!
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:


But that's just me. I don't want to start an argument about it or anything...


lol...
I never consider this stuff an argument..more of a discussion...
even the nap on a fabric can have a profound impact on what color it renders...
if
say for example
the vest has no nap in the fabric
and the gaiters do...

the same color can shift into two directions...

sheen on a fabric...or lack of sheen can also shift color...

so...it is really anyone's guess...

Very Happy

so...

the guy on the left...
what color is his flightsuit?


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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok....
so...
I did and about face and am going in another direction.

I have read through many of the other threads and what not about this costume and
well...
I think my head is going to explode at this point.

Those photos showing the Y-Wing and X-Wing and other pilots take in 1987 were awesome...but ...as noted...
what were they really?

anyway...

preface this by my saying I am not sure if it is right or wrong...it is simply the way I am headed...


I headed in the direction of white sport nylon....
the fabric from hell...
it frays
it slips
it slides
it is a nightmare to work with...
but...
has the right sheen and other properties....

two layers of white sport nylon (available in the "utility" fabric area of Joanne fabrics) with a layer of batting in between ....





Before I fully assemble that top part of the vest I started to work on some of the other pieces...

Like the ribbed pieces at the shoulder straps where the buckles attach...



















I also started to look at the strapping for the upper vest....
I cut a piece of ABS to add to the inside of that 5 sided back center piece...it gives it more stability....and positioned the hook and loop tape to the back piece of the vest..
I wanted to sew those pieces on before I fully stitched together the front and back of the vest...that way you will not see the stitches on the front of the vest...








and..then there is the whole belly piece thing..

I took Jeff's drawing to the local FedEx office and blew it up 367% so that the part marked "back" was 22" so that I might try to make that piece using a full sized pattern...
actually ....
this is too large as I am making my vest with a bottom hem on the top piece of the vest about 19" because I am short and my chest is not as large as Jeff's .


I gotta tell you ....the pattern looks HUGE





I am not sure how this is going to work out...
but I also scanned this pattern into a full side PDF so others could eventually take the PDF on a thumb drive and print it out at some place like Fed Ex office with a large size printer/scanner/copier (one that does blueprints).


dunno....

I have worked on a lot of costumes and mostly don't know what I am doing ever....
but for some reason...
I really feel "lost" on this project...
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't surprise me that you feel lost. I definitely was. I was making things up as I went along, because the source material is terrible, and one certainly ends up staring at fuzzy pictures saying, "Huh?" I went through several versions of the belly pouch before I found that pattern. But, I also used the white nylon, as that was what Skaught says it was made of. But I also backed it with the tan material I used for making my gaiters to help give it an off white look. That, plus dirtying it up a lot gives it that tan-ish color seen in the screen-caps. It also beefs it up a bit, but you should still add batting inside the vest. The vests are stuffed, not flat like the X-wing's, according to Skaught. I also added 1"x3" foam extending the width of the vest at the bottom of the upper part. It is squared at the bottom and tappers at the top. This helps create the ridge on the bottom where the four little greeblies go. It also creates the phantom black strap we used to think was on the vest under certain lighting.
Keep it up, it's looking good!
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I am the president of the "You can add but you can't take away" society...
I used two layers of white sport nylon instead of the white backed with tan approach...

but...that does sound like a good idea...


where I always appreciate the ability of those who know how to weather...
I am sadly not really one of those people who does weathering well....
I feel that it really does take an "artists eye" to weather something effectively...
and that is something that can be left to last..


but...

anyway..
here is where we are this morning...with all of the webbing just pinned on for now...

and..

just to drive you all crazy...
I put the pieces with the tan jumpsuit..

yeah...
I am a Rebel...

Razz










and...
pondering greeblie choices











Obviously...I still have work to do on the top part of the vest...
but am still pondering the "belly" portion....it will be stuffed with fiber fill for sure...
and...

I took the un-blown up pattern and made a tiny belly pouch out of some scrap tan fabric.......

dunno...






don't know about that yet...
am pondering some other ideas...

today I won't have much time to work on things though...

so
plenty of time to "ponder"

Very Happy
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