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KotOR-Inspired Generic Jedi
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Fyr Mureys ()
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks amazing, Jenna. We need more KOTOR characters, I love their robes. Thanks for helping blaze the way! Wink

And with those colours, Blazing is the right term! Looking great... Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is quite an inspiration to see anyone who can accurately do the reverse cross on the tunic. Congratulations there!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it!


*looks at pile of stuff to do...must get back to my own KOTOR outfit...*
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been forever, but I swear I've been making progress. I've got all the closures done except those on the skirt, as I had to go out and buy some hooks and bars. (Awesome thing about Japan is that department stores sometimes have a sewing section.) I also need pants that match. My little machine here can't handle thick fabric or zippers, so I left the pieces at home with my mother to put together, but she got confused, so I'm shipping them off to the lovely Lisa to assemble and send my way next month.



My parents came to visit and brought with them the food capsules that I had ordered but arrived 2 days after I left for Japan, as well as the belt and pouches that Lisa made for me. I don't have a photo of it yet, but it's the one in her shop: http://www.etsy.com/listing/169894634/prequel-style-leather-jedi-belt?ref=shop_home_active

So while I'm waiting on pants, I decided to make another one of these, this time for my boyfriend, who clearly needs to come join us in the Rebel Legion. This is going to be a Christmas present, though I plan to leave off the closures until I have a chance to try it on him. I stole the measurements off of one of his uniforms, so I want to be more certain of exactly how it fits him.

These are the fabrics I've been collecting this fall:



The colors are partially inspired by the blue robes in KotOR as well as by how nice my mockup looked. Haha. It does also help that blue is his favorite color, but I found that out after I'd already bought the collar fabric. I included the tan dickie so that he can wear a pair of his own kackies with the costume.

Blue robes in the game:



The tunic fabric appears to be a heavier cotton gauze, but it seems to be a synthetic-cotton blend. The faux-under collar is completely synthetic but has a nice texture. The dickie appears to be mostly natural fibers, but I'm not sure what. My Japanese fabric vocabulary is a bit weak. Haha. The collar is a sweater knit of some kind that has a bit of stretch to it. I suspect it is also a cotton-poly blend.

For reference, for a 5'6"/5/8" person, the tunic/obi/skirt take 3 meters almost exactly, so I kind of wish I had gotten a bit more. The collar takes up the whole diagonal of a meter of fabric, and the dickie is pretty much exactly 1/2m. I opted for a faux under-tunic with collar only for him, to save on fabric and not fight with knit fabric on my machine.

I made the patterns on Thursday and decided to see just how much I could get done of this on Friday. The results were more than I expected yesterday:



That's all the machine sewing on the tunic, obi, faux under-tunic, dickie collar, and under-tabbard. Not pictured is a bunch of bias tape and the beginning of the skirt. I need to do gathering by hand because my machine has exactly one, tiny, stitch length, so assembling the skirt needs to wait on that.

Since I keep talking about what it can and can't do, here's my traveling sewing station including the mighty Mini Rex sewing machine.



Since I travel a lot, I have a mini travel machine. Rex has one stitch length, two speeds, and it just goes forward. It's operated by an on-off button, not a foot pedal, so that takes some getting used to, but for simple projects on light, non-knit fabrics it works pretty well.

Anyway, the thought is that I will provide the Jedi tunic, he has his own pants, and then he'll have to collect the belt, pouches, food capsules, boots, and lightsaber himself.

There's basically one major event in my part of Japan, outside of Tokyo, each year and that's later this spring, so we've both got time to finish this up.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the boyfriend's Jedi tunic is "finished"!



Laid out with a pair of my own kackies for color comparison. I'm pretty sure his are darker than the ones I own.

I left the back half of all of the closures off because I want to do a fitting on him before I finish all of that, so there's still that. I may wind up shortening the tunic too, depending on fit, but longer to start is easier to fix than too short.

It will be up to him to get his own belt, boots, food capsules, pouches, and lightsaber.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tunics look really beautifully made.
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SongofAmazon (Jenna)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

Question for the LCJs here as I am getting this all wrapped up: I know that my boyfriend's blue robes fit neatly into the allowed colors, but mine are a bit iffy, even though they are based on a generic Jedi in canon. (There are a couple of NPC Jedi named only as "Jedi" wandering around the Jedi Temple in KotOR wearing these robs that I could pull 360 turn-arounds of, if need be.) So, with regard to my color scheme, given that I have all of the requirements for formal: pouches, food capsules, inner tunic, if the color is deemed unsuitable, could this costume be accepted as informal?

On the other hand, if I backed off on my want to bring the KotOR design into our generic Jedi standards, and added the shoulder pads and wrist guards that appear in the KotOR robes while removing the tabbard, would that be acceptable as formal? These robes also appear in the KotOR comics.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently there are no generic EU Jedi, though this is something that will happen eventually. A few things needs to fall into place first, but I'm not at liberty to discuss that. Patience Wink

So, any generic Jedi needs to conform to the Generic Jedi Costume Standards.

One of the elements in the current rendition of the GJCS that has had some confusion is the "single tabard below the obi". A single tabard below the obi is permitted, but...the tabards above the obi are still required. In other words, over the shoulder (or around the neck) tabards coming together on the front and extending below the obi as one strip of fabric is okay.

The only other thing I'd mention is that I do believe the orange of your OT is too bright (provided the picture provided is representative of the true color of the fabric). The GJCS are rather specific on that point.

But, face characters are the exception to any generic costume standard.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SongofAmazon wrote:
I know that my boyfriend's blue robes fit neatly into the allowed colors, but mine are a bit iffy, even though they are based on a generic Jedi in canon. (There are a couple of NPC Jedi named only as "Jedi" wandering around the Jedi Temple in KotOR wearing these robs that I could pull 360 turn-arounds of, if need be.) So, with regard to my color scheme, given that I have all of the requirements for formal: pouches, food capsules, inner tunic, if the color is deemed unsuitable, could this costume be accepted as informal?


I'm not an LCJ, but this is what the charter states and how it has worked in the past. As long as you copy the character directly from the game, you shouldn't need any of the other items that the Generic Jedi CRL requires. The CRL is meant for Genosis-style generic Jedi, not Jedi from other media sources (such as KOTOR). All you should need to do is to copy the character as best as possible with your costume and provide the screenshots of the in-game character. The screenshots need to be a 360 view (so front, sides, back).

The Charter states the following with regards to your costume idea (emphasis mine):

Article II: Costuming Standards

Formal: Formal is defined as a costume from one of the six Star Wars films, Expanded Universe, or Lucasfilm Licensed Media (TV, books, games, etc.) as it would appear in those materials. Costumes must be complete, containing all the parts in good working order and appearance. All costume submissions must meet the Costume Requirements (CRL’s) listed Costume Standards Master List on the Rebel Legion website.

Applicants submitting costumes for any Expanded Universe costume must submit with their application two or more images from two or more LFL licensed sources for the character/costume that clearly depict the character in detail and from head to toe in order for it to be considered Formal. For characters from video games, a full 360 head-to-toe turn around may be substituted for these reference images. Note that player generated/edited costumes, for game characters, are not eligible for consideration for Formal designations.
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SongofAmazon (Jenna)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for popping in Roger. May I point out that this thread has been in existence for 6 months looking for comments from Jedi LCJ and have gotten none. I realize I am an LCJ myself, but this is not my category, so I lack expertise on the standards, and it would have been nice to get feedback before my costume was beyond a point where I could fix it. I did ask for color and style input as early as July.

Members are told over and over that if they want to try something new, they should form a build thread to get feedback. I did so.

My attempt here was to bring an EU style into our generic standards, and I thought I was doing a reasonably good job, but I lacked official feedback until now.

I respect the standards and want to adhere to them, but creativity requires official clarification at times.

The tabbard here is done as an under-tabbard. It hangs underneath the OT, as Ki-Al-Mundi's does. Is that not permissible for a non-face character?

Rephrasing the above questions that I am still waiting for answers on and adding another:

1. Are under-tabbards permissible? There are movie canon examples of them, after all.

2. As it stands, would this costume be allowed for informal? I do not absolutely need for it to be formal, as I have several other formal costumes already.

3. Given the color scheme, which is directly taken from a common robe in KotOR, (see Jabari's thread here for good turn-arounds), if I were to give up on being generic, loose my tabbard, and add shoulder pads and gloves, that would put me into the realm of a face character. Aside from your player character (Revan) and Juhani who wears these robes (and Vrook, but I am not a man), there is a Jedi Knight in the temple who wears them as well. She has a ponytail, but I can get myself some extensions for that. (I'll track down some screenshots of her.) Another KotOR style Jedi face character was approved earlier this fall, I noticed. My question here is that, in the game pouches, lightsaber hooks, and food capsules were not used. May I include those on my costume to try and unify them with people's conception of Jedi?

Thank you for your clarification and help! I realize that I was probably way off base by trying to bring an EU style into generic standards rather than keeping it as a face character, but some feedback earlier on would have been really nice, before I made two of these.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well…first I would like to mention that anyone who doesn’t get the feedback they desire (from the LCJs) should go directly to the source and simply ask. If there is still a lack of response, then ask the LMO. The LCJ roster is posted where all can see. I know you (Jenna) know this (and I’m not meaning to be condescending), but wanted to mention this for the sake of others who may not realize or think that they can approach our LCJs. I assure everyone, our LCJs are approachable.

Also…I think LCJs tend to shy away from costumes that are customized beyond the costume standards or that may fall into the “informal” category because the definition of “informal” is really screwed up. Sadly, the term “informal” has become to refer to incomplete or inferior costumes. The issue of “informal” is going to be fixed, but I don’t know when. It is on the top of my list of things to get done…but I’m not the deciding factor for whether or not we’re going to keep the “informal” status, and…if we do, how it will be defined. But I digress…the LCJs tend to shy away from these particular costume builds because of the potential backlash that invariably shows up from some of our more passionate EU oriented members (and from non-members too). It’s just a level of drama that people want to avoid…and I understand that.

So, let’s look at the currently posted definition of “informal”:
Quote:
Informal: Informal is defined as costume from one of the six Star Wars films, Expanded Universe, Lucasfilm Licensed Media (TV, books, games, etc.) that does not contain all the elements as it appears in the source material and/or is customized as the owner desires. An Informal costume can also be something never seen in a film, EU, or LFL media material. These original and customized costumes will be considered, provided that their level of customization has some precedence in the Star Wars Universe. Informal costumes may be reproductions of film or EU costumes that do not meet the Costume Requirements (CRL’s) listed Costume Standards Master List on the Rebel Legion website, or they may be EU costumes with less then three (3) reference sources.


How do I interpret this? Basically, a costume that is informal is a costume that is either lacking required components (as listed in the costume standards) or is customized beyond that which is described in a costume standard or that which is considered “iconic” for the Star War universe.

In addition, I feel one of the big problems with the current definition of “informal” is that…an informal costume can be something that has never been seen in source material, but that for the costume to be considered (for approval) there must be some precedence in the Star Wars universe. This is an oxymoron. How can something that’s never been seen in the source material have precedence in that source material? Also consider that the phrasing of the “informal” section of the charter implies that a non mainstream costume may not be considered for approval (without precedence).

Truly, this makes my head hurt. Okay, I’ve already said too much here…and fully expect a backlash of ridicule. So be it.

I’ll address your last questions, in an attempt to help…

In my opinion, as a Rebel Legion member (and not as the LMO):

1. Are under-tabards permissible? There are movie canon examples of them, after all.

“Under-tabards” are not mainstream or iconic for Jedi. The examples of Jedi with “under-tabards” are few and the regular Star Wars fan or the general public would not see “under-tabards” as fitting with the basic Jedi costume. “Under-tabards” are not included in the Generic Jedi Costume Standards, therefore, I would believe that “under-tabards” would not be permitted for a generic Jedi.

2. As it stands, would this costume be allowed for informal? I do not absolutely need for it to be formal, as I have several other formal costumes already.

The way the current LMO and LCJs interpret the charter definition of “informal” and how they believe the concept of “informal” should be used…I would say that this costume would not be given an “informal” status. The only way to know for sure is to submit the costume. This would force a discussion on your costume design. On this, I would offer the following…

The other thing to consider is that no one Jedi LCJ has absolute power over the denial of a costume. The LMO has developed protocol such that our costumes should be judged by committee…and insists that costumes requiring modifications (or those that may be denied) be evaluated and discussed by more than one (or implied…if not all) LCJs in a given category. The LMO will also not solely rule on an appealed costume (that was denied), and I happen to know has shown the preference of having the LCJ team, as a whole, consider such appeals.

3. Given the color scheme, which is directly taken from a common robe in KotOR, (see Jabari's thread here for good turn-arounds), if I were to give up on being generic, loose my tabbard, and add shoulder pads and gloves, that would put me into the realm of a face character. Aside from your player character (Revan) and Juhani who wears these robes (and Vrook, but I am not a man), there is a Jedi Knight in the temple who wears them as well. She has a ponytail, but I can get myself some extensions for that. (I'll track down some screenshots of her.) Another KotOR style Jedi face character was approved earlier this fall, I noticed. My question here is that, in the game pouches, lightsaber hooks, and food capsules were not used. May I include those on my costume to try and unify them with people's conception of Jedi?

We do not have a category of costume for “Generic KOTOR Jedi” (or “Generic SW: TOR Jedi”, etc.), so a costume based on Jedi characters from these games would need to be modified to conform to the Generic Jedi Costume Standards. If your costume conforms to the Generic Jedi Costume Standards, it will be granted formal status.

You may create any face character you like. If there are sufficient pictorial resources, then this costume would be approved formally. If there are insufficient pictorial resources, then this costume would be given an “informal” status. THE KEY HERE is for the costumer to supply the images on which their costume is based. If they don’t…then the LCJs may go looking for the images, and the LCJs might not find the same images used by the costumer.

The bottom line is…we should have fun creating costumes. My advi: create the costume you want and one that you would be proud to wear. If it can be given a formal (or maybe informal) status with the Rebel Legion, great…if not…well, it’s not the end of the world.

There has been and is current discussion on developing an EU-Jedi category. Will it happen? Yes. When will it happen? Probably after this formal/informal issue is resolved. My guess of when an EU Jedi category be developed? Probably within the year (or not much past the debut of the next Star Wars film).

Again, these are my opinions and are not meant to be an “official” statement from the LMO (even though I currently hold that position). I am not a dictator, I do not make policy or decisions without counsel by the LCJs and CSC, and I strive to keep with the Rebel Legion Charter.
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sze-wan ()



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

an example of a character not seen in any source material, but with precedence in the SW universe, is the "generic" jedi.

these "custom" characters are not LFL characters. they are not owned by Lucasfilm. they have names and backstories which are created BY the costumer. they do not appear in LFL source material. they are not the intellectual property of LFL...
...but they DO have precedent in the SW universe.

under the charter, these costumes are meant to be considered informal, in all cases.


Quote:
Quote:

Formal: Formal is defined as a costume from one of the six Star Wars films, Expanded Universe, or Lucasfilm Licensed Media (TV, books, games, etc.) as it would appear in those materials. Costumes must be complete, containing all the parts in good working order and appearance. All costume submissions must meet the Costume Requirements (CRL’s) listed Costume Standards Master List on the Rebel Legion website.

Applicants submitting costumes for any Expanded Universe costume must submit with their application two or more images from two or more LFL licensed sources for the character/costume that clearly depict the character in detail and from head to toe in order for it to be considered Formal. For characters from video games, a full 360 head-to-toe turn around may be substituted for these reference images. Note that player generated/edited costumes, for game characters, are not eligible for consideration for Formal designations.

Informal: Informal is defined as costume from one of the six Star Wars films, Expanded Universe, Lucasfilm Licensed Media (TV, books, games, etc.) that does not contain all the elements as it appears in the source material and/or is customized as the owner desires. An Informal costume can also be something never seen in a film, EU, or LFL media material. These original and customized costumes will be considered, provided that their level of customization has some precedence in the Star Wars Universe. Informal costumes may be reproductions of film or EU costumes that do not meet the Costume Requirements (CRL’s) listed Costume Standards Master List on the Rebel Legion website, or they may be EU costumes with less then three (3) reference sources.



this translates as:

Formal: LFL-owned characters, as they appear in LFL media (including EU).
No other definition is allowed in the Charter -- "original characters" are NOT allowed.
the character MUST be the expressed "intellectual property" of LFL.

Informal: LFL-owned characters, not quite as they appear in LFL media;
LFL characters with fewer than 3 references; OR...
"original characters" with "precedent" in the SW universe.

(such as: our own "original" generic jedi characters -- let's face it here people -- these ARE "original" characters,
and there IS a provision for these "original" characters, written directly into the charter:
they are classed as "informal", BY DEFINITION).

^^this is OBVIOUSLY to protect the integrity of LFL's intellectual property, at LFL events.
(called "formal" events)
-->LFL does not want to be "formally" represented by somebody else's intellectual property



-====-



I'm not meaning to ruffle any feathers here... I know this will be unpopular to hear...

but..

looking at the specific wording of the Charter, and considering it's intended (legal)* meaning..

I would think that LFL had originally wanted their own (popular) LFL-owned characters,
to represent them at LFL events (called "formal events").

--> these LFL-owned characters were thus given "formal" status in the club. (Han Solo, Luke, etc).

LFL were (also) gracious enough to "allow" this club to make informal ("custom") characters of our own creation -- characters NOT owned by LFL -- our own "original" (generic) characters

--> these "original" characters were assigned "informal" status in the club.
(to protect the integrity of LFL's intellectual property -- to prevent these "non-LFL" characters, from showing up at "formal" LFL events).

(and also, any "incomplete" LFL character would also be INformal -- like the gloveless anakin example -- they don't want to be represented by "incomplete" face characters)
(as they currently are NOW, simply by changing the name to "Bob Skywalker", and applying under the "generic" rules! LOL!
-->an "incomplete" Anakin is EASILY granted "formal" status, under a different category)

Rolling Eyes






^^ it seems that the club formed an agreement with LFL more than ten years ago,
in order to acquire the LFL endorsement in the first place...

the spirit of this agreement was written into the Charter, and it was UPON this Charter,
that LFL gave their endorsement...

...and then, AFTERWARDS, (like a classic bait and switch) the club has now created a "back door",
whereby applicants can STILL get into the LFL "formal" events with a "non-LFL-owned" character,
(and/or a gloveless/incomplete/unapproveable anakin costume!) -- under a new "formal" category, called "generic jedi".

I do not believe that generic jedis, (and other fanciful "original" characters), were originally meant to be considered "formal" -- why? because (a) the Charter states otherwise in NO uncertain terms, and, more importantly, (b) these characters are NOT the "intellectual property" of LFL -- by allowing "original" characters to appear at "formal" events, this violates the basis of LFL's endorsement, and it places this club in ONGOING legal jeopardy.*

Sad

Quote:
the phrasing of the “informal” section of the charter implies that a non mainstream costume may not be considered for approval (without precedence).


indeed.

the "formal" section states this explicitly, in NO uncertain terms:

--> ONLY LFL-owned characters (which appear in the SW universe) can be considered Formal.
(only LFL-owned "intellectual property" is welcome at LFL events)

--> NON-LFL-owned characters (WITH precedent in the SW universe) are meant to be informal.
(this includes all "original" characters created from the costumer's imagination,
which are NOT the expressed intellectual property of LFL)

(aka. generic jedi -- let's face it, our generic jedi characters ARE "original characters" -- they HAVE been "customized" -- this situation IS addressed in plain english, in the "informal" section of the Charter, quoted above)

Sad

-=======-

Quote:
Truly, this makes my head hurt.




* legally speaking, it's really quite simple: it's all about intellectual property: who "owns" the character?
--> if LFL? then Formal, with 3 references.
--> if NOT LFL? then informal. always.
the Charter is clear. and it was UPON this charter, that LFL gave their blessing.

(the RL should be VERY careful about this, now that LFL is owned by The Mouse Wink
this ongoing practice of allowing our own custom "original" characters, to "Formally" represent LFL in public...
...could be ALL the ammunition they need, to shut down BOTH legions).

Sad

-======-

Quote:
Okay, I’ve already said too much here…and fully expect a backlash of ridicule.


you and me both Wink hehe Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to argue, but to merely clarify a couple of points (so that our RL members understand…or at least are cautious):

Quote:
it seems that the club formed an agreement with LFL more than ten years ago,
in order to acquire the LFL endorsement in the first place


Whether or not this is true, at this time, there is definitely no “agreement” between the Rebel Legion and LFL/Disney.
On the home page of the Rebel Legion:

Quote:
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans.
While it is not sponsored by Lucasfilm LLC, Lucasfilm recognizes the Rebel Legion as a premier volunteer Rebel costuming group.
Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2013Lucasfilm LLC and ™ All rights reserved.


And…

Quote:
these "custom" characters are not LFL characters. they are not owned by Lucasfilm. they have names and backstories which are created BY the costumer. they do not appear in LFL source material. they are not the intellectual property of LFL...


Well, I’m not a corporate attorney or an attorney that specializes in copyright law, but…if you want to know how far reaching the arm of LFL/Disney is with respect to intellectual rights for Star Wars costumes and props owned by anyone…just start charging for your appearance when wearing your generic Jedi costume (or any Rebel Legion approved costume, formal or informal) or set up a US based company and start making profit on making Star Wars props and costumes.

Considering LFL/Disney has (literally) billions of dollars to throw at attorneys, and I have…nothing, I’m definitely not going to chance it.






And finally (for now)…I have a feeling things are about to change.


PLEASE, let's stay on track for commenting on this WIP by Jenna. Thanks Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good, Jenna Smile

You wouldn't by chance happen to have any detail shots of how you did the skirting for the outer tunic, would you? The reason I ask is I am planning on (eventually) doing this kind of costume in the near future(I vaguely remember there being a few minor named NPCs wearing the brown robes floating around on Dantooine. I think one of them was named Brianna, or something similar. Gotta replay the game to find out for sure.)

As far as additional references to these robes: check out the official game guide as well as the Zhaynne Carrick (not sure if that's spelled right?). From my own research, these robes show up in there as well. Plus, both are officially authorized by LFL.
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Young men with their dreams.
They died before the guns in the hundreds.
A book of faded pictures, broken dreams.
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SongofAmazon (Jenna)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, never really thought of informal that way. I had been in contact Angel directly when he was still an LCJ but when he became LCO, I didn't seek out another LCJ contact person. I really aught to have sought out another LCJ contact directly at that point.

I think you're right that informal really does need to be clarified. I look forward to that discussion happening.

Thanks for that clarification Roger. I will ditch the under-tabbard idea and unify my costume to a specific KotOR face character.

As to my boyfriend's costume, because the styling and colors are not *quite* the same as the blue robes in KotOR, I will replace his under-tabbard with a proper set of tabbards, so that he can fall within the generic Jedi standards.

And yes, I will take some detail shots of how I did the skirt/reverse-wrap.
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In planning and progress:
Riyo Chuchi, Havoc Trooper, Amilyn Holdo, Lilac Handmaiden, Sache

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