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ANH Ben Kenobi Belt pictures Part 5
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Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:26 am    Post subject: ANH Ben Kenobi Belt pictures Part 5 Reply with quote

Is the belt buckle brassy or silver?

These first two are from the Magic of Myth tour pics:

[img]

[/img]

Next from the scenes in Ben's hut:

[img]

[/img]

[img]

At the game table in the Falcon:

[/img]

Sensing a disturbance in the force (Alderaan)

[img]

Finally, before the duel with Vader on the Death Star:

[/img]

[img]

Observations:

Many of the pictures show a brassy tint to the buckle, while a couple show almost all silver (the Vader duel), while some show silver that seems to be rusting.

The MoM pics indicate some curvature of the edges and corners of the buckle instead of a simple flat buckle.

The Vader duel pictures show the right side greeblie much closer to the buckle than in all of the other pictures (see also the other "Part" discussions of the ANH belt). Since the greeblie is on the permanently attached side of the buckle this can't be accounted for by tightening the belt. This seems to indicate at least two belts were used in the filming of Ben Kenobi's character.

It would seem that both silver or brassy weathered coloring would be acceptable for the belt buckle. However brassy seems to be the more common color.

Paul ˘┐˘
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lgtsbr ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there has to have been 2 belts. I have been going over it in my head for days about how the buckle position could have moved, but there is no scenario where the greeblie could have started close to the buckle and moved farther away without there being holes from where rivets were removed.

With that said, I have to think multiple buckles were used as well.

I agree there is a curvature of the edges of the buckle, all the way around. So this buckle will have depth. I haven't had a chance to go looking for buckles yet, but I will.

Dave
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lgtsbr ()



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, I just ordered up a brass buckle, lets see if it is close once it comes in.

I just realized we never got to talking about the long greeblie on the right side behind the pouch at the back of the belt

Dave
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Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgtsbr wrote:

I just realized we never got to talking about the long greeblie on the right side behind the pouch at the back of the belt
Dave


There are some pretty good shots of it in parts 4 and 5. I think your current design is OK. Some of the shots give a good view of the right and left edges and also the distance from the rear connector on the pouch. Do you need more pics?

Paul ˘┐˘
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lgtsbr ()



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we should probably break it down like we did everything else, this is going to be the ultimate belt afterall Wink

Dave
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lgtsbr ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brass Buckle is here, it is quite a bit smaller than the Tandy Blank I had been using, I think it is way too small personally. Have a look:











For size ref:

Brass - 3 1/8 x 2 1/8
Tandy - 4 x 2 5/8

The hunt continues........

Dave
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Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really nice looking buckle but - Yea - too small. Crying or Very sad
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lgtsbr ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea, I'm starting to think custom made is the only way to go.......

Dave
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Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a way to brass tint the Tandy buckle? I'm not up on metal work but it seems that may be the best way to go if possible. Maybe even brass plating the Tandy buckle. I don't think it is absolutely necessary to find a buckle that has the contoured edges like what we see in the screen grabs. Custom designing the buckle sounds expensive but it would be nice to see how much it would be.

The buckle is going to have to be weathered anyway so it doesn't have to be perfect plating or tinting.

Paul ˘┐˘
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's just raw steel as far as I know, so it could be painted brass then weathered. We can look into it both ways, painting and having a buckle made.

The reason I'm hoping we can do the brass buckle is that I can get a brass ageing solution that works real well. This way the buckle looks naturally tarnished as well as weathered.

I have to sit down and draw out the buckle size wise then have it quoted out

Dave
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Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE - regarding the size of the ANH Kenobi belt buckle.

Dave took some measurements and came up with two different buckle sizes.

The silver buckle from the fight scene with Darth Vader is 2 1/4 by 3 3/4 inches.

The brass buckle from the MOM pictures is 2 1/4 by 3 3/8 inches - 3/8 inch shorter than the silver buckle.

Since the buckles are held in place with what appears to be studs and not snaps it again seems to indicate there are two belts used in filming.

I confirmed his measurements by doing my own comparisons and came up with the same dimensions.

After independently coming up with the same dimensions we questioned the width of the belt since that was the basis for the comparisons. I went back and looked for a picture that showed Ben's lightsaber hanging from his belt trying to confirm that his belt is actually 2" wide.

This is the clearest picture I had showing the lightsaber hanging from his belt.



I got out my Master Replicas Weathered ANH saber and measured the silver section just below the grenade. It is almost exactly 2 inches. I assumed that the MR lightsaber is based on the actual prop so that gave me my "known" object for comparison. Comparing the width of the silver section to the width of the belt to the left of the buckle (as you look at Ben) it is pretty much an exact match. It doesn't appear that any part of the belt on that side is covered by any folds of the Obi so we have confirmed that the belt is 2" wide.

This also confirmed our independent measurements of the two buckles.

Paul
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lgtsbr ()



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh sure Paul, steel my thunder Razz

Just kidding - this was a interesting find for me to say the least and it makes the belt that much harder as we now have 2 known buckles which also makes me think there were multiple belts used. I had commented at 1 point that the Death Star belt looked to have the Greeblie to close to the buckle, again this seems to confirm multiple belts.

What this also confirms is that the Tandy Blank we have all been using for years is not accurate.

I'm going to send a email off today or tomorrow and see about getting a brass buckle made to the correct dimensions as well as thick, kind of like the sample I posted earlier. Once I figure out if they can do it or not, I will look into starting my prototype for this project. I don't know yet if I'm going to look into doing the silver one at this point, I still have a lot of data to pool over.

Lots of stuff to look at......

Dave
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Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Dave - didn't mean to upstage you. I did make sure to give you first credit for the find.

I thought this thread would be a good place to post your find since people would already be reading it for the brass vs silver buckle debate. Also earlier in this thread are your comments on the front greeblie distance from the buckle so it kind of all tied in.

Plus we confirmed in my mind that the belt is indeed 2" wide so it can also be used as a point of reference.

The one thing that concerns me is if indeed there are two different belts we need to be careful about placement of the other items on the belt. If the front greeblie is an example then other items could vary. We need to be sure what scene the pics come from to be sure we are talking about the "silver belt" or the "brass belt". Fortunately - beyond the front greeblie, the pouch, and the rear greeblie - the only other items are the left side hook and the saber hook so it may not be much of a concern.

One final comment before we move on - to me two critical items are the distance between the front greeblie, and the buckle (which we have seen does vary depending on the buckle), and the left side of the rear greeblie (which should be placed in the middle of the back). Everything else depending on the size of the person wearing the belt could be adjusted proportionately to make it look right. But now you are talking about custom belts instead of a generic belt. When it's all said and done - it probably won't make a difference in costume approval unless the judges get very picky about the belt (which I don't see happening).

Again - sorry about stealing your thunder.

Apologies, Paul
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no appologies, I was only kidding, hence the Razz

I want to be sure we share everything we can on this. As far as I'm concerned, this is your project, I'm just honored to be along for the ride Smile

I've been thinking all day about what to do with regards to the buckle/belts, I think I'm going to focus on the Brass one. I will look into getting the silver buckles made but, I have to caution everyone, the back attachment points on the buckle itself will need to be right in order for both the belt and the buckle to lay correctly. My guess is these won't be cheap buckles, the brass ones I already picked up were $25 a piece, so I have to imagine a custom one will be in that ball park or more.

I've also been thinking about the belt proper. I think when we are all said and done, I will offer 2 trim levels; a basic like I did before without all the extra holes and using the Tandy Buckle Blank as well as a Uber Accurate Brass Buckle version. Both will include the newly designed pouch, once we get that far of course.

I also want to caution that this won't be a quick prototype in a weekend kind of thing. I'm in the midst of both a product relaunch and a new product launch as well as working full time, so please be patient.

My goal is to make sure we get this right, once and for all, until better images come up or one of us gets out hands on the real one (ahem, Diego). I love that we are finding new details, this is the exciting part of this hobby Very Happy

Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an evidence, there is differents belts.

More than a "silver belt" and a "brass belt" is seems there is a couple of belts. When I look to the diffrents screen captures and the pics from the MOM exhibit, sometimes the brass buckle seems to be flat sometimes it seems curved. The weathering also seems different.

Maybe I am wrong and it is influenced by the light when it was filming, maybe I am right and there is more tha two belts.

What do you thing about it, you're far better than me on this subject ?
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