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Jedi's with Glasses
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JedHead (Matt Tolosa)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you don't wear your glasses on your submission and trading card photos. Wink

Someone should make Wilfred Brimley's character of Noah from The Ewok Adventure - he's the only Star Wars character to actually WEAR glasses!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JedHead wrote:
Someone should make Wilfred Brimley's character of Noah from The Ewok Adventure - he's the only Star Wars character to actually WEAR glasses!
Don't forget Saun Dann from the Holiday Special!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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JedHead (Matt Tolosa)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volund Starfire wrote:
JedHead wrote:
Someone should make Wilfred Brimley's character of Noah from The Ewok Adventure - he's the only Star Wars character to actually WEAR glasses!
Don't forget Saun Dann from the Holiday Special!



Oh yeah! Very Happy
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Magnius ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the question should be should the denial of a RL membership be based on wearing prescription eyewear , and if so should this then be placed as a formal requirement on the standards ..

And if so would the RL be concerned regarding concepts of discrimination...

Should eyeglasses be considered the same as ethnicity and medical needs ect as elements that do not effect the joining of the legion...


In my own personal opinion when one start cherry picking (beyond the costumes themselves) what aspects of a person is acceptable to become a member , a rather tricky road would we find ourselves ....



In regards to glasses .. I think people often feel that they are jsut a fashion accessory and are not really needed ... But that is not hte case.


Now I can see some of the arguement when it involves a Faces Character .. in those instances you are looking for someone that is going to be an exact copy of how the character looks on screen. (refer to the hair color discussion on other threads where the discucssion centered around Mara Jade , and the identifiablity of her hair color, vrs natural hair and jsut her costume) But as to generic characters i really do not see this as an issue as long as the costume meets the standards that have been dictated by the RL ..

thoughts people ...
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Mara Skywalker (Anna)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in my personal oppinion: I see nothing wrong with glasses. Really, I don't see why a jedi or moisture farmer wouldn't wear glasses - for facecharacters? Sure, take them off, please.

But for generic characters, I really think it fine if the roster picture represent how you're gonna look at an event. So, if you plan on wearing your glasses. Then, I'm fine with that.

Next thing we end up telling people who wear braces to please keep their mouth completely shut when they take a photo Wink
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cujo3131 (Matt Duncan)



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know for myself, I really need to wear glasses to see at distance,
being nearsighted as heck (and not being able to wear contacts).... and I will admit that I worry about wearing glasses etc and how it will affect the overall appearance. I am lucky, in that, with my Mando costume, my face and glasses are covered by my bucket... so no worries there.

With the Y-wing costume I am currently working on, I do worry about wearing my glasses as my face will be seen even with the helmet, but I would rather know that I can walk around and not kill myself. I find it simple to take them off for submission pictures and for group pictures.

Somebody has to fly this crate... and I guess it will be the half blind kid Razz


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I can see not wearing glasses for submission pics or staged, official pictures where the "model" does not have to move around and possibly trip over things, I think it's rather odd to ask people to go without the means to correct a physical defect just to be more "swarzy". I can't think of any canon Jedi that wear those bulky knee braces or any number of other medical devices that some folks need to use just to get around. Yet I doubt anyone would say anything about those being worn. Same goes for other things like being in a wheelchair. I doubt we would turn someone down who had a great costume, but was confined to one of those.

And, before anyone asks, no, I do not wear glasses anymore. Had lasik done several years ago and I wore contacts long before that (glasses actually gave me headaches whereas contacts did not). But I do see the actual need some people have (I was at a -7 or so prescription before the surgery).
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Magnius ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After writing this I see how long it was , I apologize on the length , but it was my attempt to sum up what I believe are the stances on both sides of the fence . The psychological elements that are at play in the opposing sides , and potential solutions to the problem.

Stepping back from this topic helps being a clear focus as to what is the main driving forces at work here. Let us look at the two points of view , as Old Ben said the many truths that we cling to depends on ones point of view. Talking to members , and reading past threads I shall try to sum up the concepts of this discussion. Now some star wars group deny membership right out based on glasses being worn in application photos. We all see the standards becoming stricter , and more specific since the Disney and LFL merger. That all star wars groups are getting notice form powers that be to tighten up , be as accurate as can be. These concerns I think are shaping themselves as questions upon the forums as to where the legion now and our future will stand on certain topics and ideas . I have seen recently the word Earth Like , being used a lot now , which is rather vague , and with no clearly expressed (on costume standards) expectations for medically based tools and items …

The concept in discussion : Should glasses be removed for application photos?

The Costume Judges ..
1.. On the forums themselves there are several positions on this topic ranging from there is no problem with glasses being worn , to glasses should not be worn for applications photos. .. this indicates that even amongst the judges there is no unifying concept in regards to the interpretation of glasses.

2.. Interpretation on glasses : they are accessories, and under Legion rules one can request distracting non star wars accessories to be removed for application photos.

3.. Simply put The Rebel Legion is at heart a Star Wars costume community that strives for exact detail in their costumes … It is the Job of the judges to be the safe guards of the standards , making sure the membership holds to as exact detail of costumes.

4.. It would be difficult for the Costume Judges to be prepared in their standards for every possible situation that might be brought to them in regards to giving a member a pass on certain items.
The Membership views

1.. The vagueness of some elements of the standards leads to interpretation , which can give the illusion of personal taste coming into measure when membership is judged.
- the concept a an addendum to costuming rules might indicate if medical necessity comes into play then in such situation the standard can be altered to meet the needsof the member.. I know this falls under the groups non discrimination policy , but it does once again come to interpretation.
- Sometimes to point out something some might feel is obvious , one could go in the measure of extremes … There are no earth based artificial arms in the star wars universe … We would all say it would be a level of ridiculousness to ask a person to remove their artificial arm since it falls under vague earth based tech … We can all agree that that extreme is silly , but extremes are sometimes usefull in expressing the concerns of the smaller concepts.
Ex..
1.. Sever foot problems – a person who would have to wear specialized foot wear might not actually be able to wear standard jedi boots.
2.. people with braces , should not have to avoid smiling because as the popular phrase is , it is an earth based item , and jedi don’t wear braces … ect.. not that I have seen this situation but again we are playing in potential what ifs of extremes ..
3.. the topic of today Glasses … the question .. should a member have to remove their needed eye wear , and needed eye protection in order for approval .. Now the argument on the other side is it should be no big deal because they are easy to take off (as opposed to braces that are bonded to the teeth) Should the ease of removal be the main defining characteristic of a medical device … Artificial arms are pretty easy to remove , so in that argument , artificial arms should be removed for photos

Now yes the extremes are silly , but it is meant to highlight a point . – Should it fall under the costume judges to ask the membership to remove glasses . Does that even fall under their right ? As well as creative a precedence that allows their to be a loophole of denials based on vague(earth based) elements

Now for elements of the arguments : Why are some sensitive to this topic
1.. I have heard said .. what is the big deal , loose the glasses and take the picture why be so hard headed …
2.. In part many that wear glasses , those that wear them from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed , that is a part of their appearance , in a sense who they physically are ..
- this gives the concept that a member who wears glasses does not fit into what is “normal” . Perhaps even bringing in concepts of the four eyed geek concept. So on an emotional level a denial goes beyond the concept that the Judges are not accepting them for their costume , but on their very appearance. Rational or not that is an element in consideration . That people who are born with weaker eyes , are simply not as good as their strong eyed fellow members … Rational or not that could be an element at play

3.. I know myself and others have been told (not judges but other members) to wear a veil , to attach my lenses to some other item , to buy something that looks more star warsy and attach the lenses to them , have costume made frames made so you can wear your glasses. Wear contacts , get lasik
As a response
a.. why should someone have to cover their face simply because their eyes are not equal to others – The idea that they should cover their face in many ways is insulting . Because that person does not fall under the concept of perfection they should conceal their face that the offensive element ..
b.. glasses are actually measured to meet the eyes exactly at a certain aspect of the lenses , to remove the glasses and attach the lenses to something else the alignment would be off, leading to vision issues and balance difficulties.
c.. why should a member have to spend more money on creating specialized equipment , just to be able to see normally ..
d.. not everyone can wear contacts
e.. not everyone has inclination to have surgery to appear “normal”

3.. Costume Judges role is to study the costume itself . So the question of interpretation is , is the costume itself just the clothes , or the elements of the person themselves .
- I would say that those are pro glasses feel that the judges primary job is to look only at the costume , are the physical elements of the costume meeting the standards of the legion .
- the con glasses side , through a potential denial would argue that the overall look of the person , including the “accessories” of glasses effects the whole look. Which would give them rights to judge the overall look including the membership .. .Which in extreme concepts could be a very dangerous path , not that it happened but sometimes extremes are used to point out some aspects.

4.. An element of this would be where would a line be drawn between the judging a costume and judging a person .

5.. How should the Legion Presented upon themselves .. . It was stated that our photos are part of the promotion of our organization , and we wish to present our best image front .. .So in that argument the members that have glasses on , that have approved costumes are in some ways not presenting either their best forward foot , as well that the act of wearing glass somehow reduces the image of the Legion. That those who wear glasses are in a sense are not good enough to be a representative of the legion itself.
- personally I feel that variety of the pictures show the legion in a better light then having the exact uniformed look that all types are welcomed. Someone pointed out to me that in 80 pages they do not see one person wearing glasses in their photos .. As a potential member who knows how that would enter their minds in regards to who is welcomed in the group. Again it could be an extreme, but we are looking currently at the mental view of people , and being that we are not Vulcan we might have to look at the thoughts of membership …

What would membership be interesting is seeing:
- maybe something that as stated early a means for members not to have ot be concerned if their medical need would not be a factor ..
- Perhaps ( since judges have expressed various views of the subject ) a universal stance of the Judges that will clearly state such medical elements will not come into the judging process .

Now I know this is long winded , but this topic does come up every year. So it is clearly a topic that many feel has never fully or clearly expressed on the stances of the leadership. I think if a formalized element in the costuming rules indicate that medically needed tools, devices will have no bearing on the judging of the costume .
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theeviltwin ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. One of the things every judge for every costume type looks for is any item that drags the costume out of the fantasy world of SW and into the real world. It is impossible to list every item that may do this or even qualify what these could be, as this is effectively infinite. This is one of the reasons why it is human beings making the judgments and not a computer. This is especially significant for Generic Jedi costumes as unlike almost all other costumes, there is no single hard reference (e.g. movie screen cap) to fall back on.

2. Glasses are so extremely rare in the SW visual content that for 99.9 percent of people they are never a part of the SW world. Just look at how we've had to scrape the barrel to find the handful of examples there are.

3. There is nothing generic about Jedi wearing glasses. Remember how the costume is called GENERIC Jedi, not UNIQUE Jedi? Jedi (and other SW people) are not normally, commonly, seen or associated with wearing glasses. What's next - sunglasses?

4. Everyone is expected to do their best by everyone (members, LCJs, the public, the people inviting us to their events, etc.) to try to maintain the SW illusion with their costumes and costuming.

So drag up whatever obscure character references you want, but glasses will always look too real world on a generic costume.

5. We do however live in the real world, where many (including me) need prescription glasses to see effectively. So doing your best doesn't mean you can't wear glasses at events. But doing your best does mean doing what you can to mitigate their "breaking the illusion" influence especially in official circumstances (e.g. membership roster pictures, group photos, publicity material, etc).

6. So while no one is going to suggest you walk a convention floor without being able to see, when doing static posing / photo ops - for example when you are getting your application and membership photos taken, hide your glasses out of shot (e.g. in a pocket or pouch).

As a glasses wearer I know they aren't a fashion item. But I know that where appropriate, with a mitigation strategy and in the right circumstances I can live without them - at least for as long as it take for someone to take my photo. I also know that while not jewelry, your glasses can become part of your self image and that can make a wearer reluctant to remove them. Unfortunately changing your image an event is part of what we do.

It isn't unreasonable to expect glasses wearers to remove their glasses for the short time it takes for whomever is taking their membership photo to take the shot. It is also expected that every member should want to present the best "looks like they just stepped out of the movie" appearance they can for the different conditions we troop in. Surely we shouldn't have to write "use your common sense" into the charter or costume standards..?
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Magnius ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so my question to the judges . can there be an official decision ... one way or another .... i think that is all people want at this moment . An offical statement regarding is a member will be denied membership based on application photos with glasses..

This topic comes up once a year so i think there is a curiosity on the subject ...


2.. how does an official decision get made ... and when can it be made ...
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Leia (Vera Campbell)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what you are asking, Magnius, is can a Jedi be formally approved as a glasses-wearer?

(My own personal opinion is no, that no matter how blind you are, they can be taken off for pics like submission pics, but in the real world during events you have to do what you have to do, me included)
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DarinHelton ()



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know this was such a hot topic when I posed the question. Magnus I think you hit nail on the head, some official ruling would be nice. I personally have no issues with a "Please No Glasses" rule I was mostly curious what others did with the glasses weather they found away to make them work for a costume for a "generic" Jedi or just lived without them. There has been a lot of good info on this topic though!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a nice little article about many of the bespectacled characters of the Star Wars universe. More than most people think actually.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Spectacles

The nice thing about Jedi costuming is that there is a significant amount of freedom when it comes to designing your own personal Jedi. Within the CRLs of course.

But there are more than enough canon resources to support the wearing of glasses while in costume. HOWEVER.....I personally feel glasses should be Swarsy'd out in some way. Or at the very least a monocle would be cool. Monocles are always cool and not just for steampunkers anymore ;-)

And as Jason mentioned...Plo Kloon has some pretty sweet specs!

Of course safety and comfort should be your priority. No point in tripping over a kid or your neighbors lightsaber.

Food for thought.
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