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Rookie question/clarification
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Delta5Actual ()



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Rookie question/clarification Reply with quote

I'm about to drop the "C" word....Costumebase. Razz I know the holster is inaccurrate and I would plan on making my own leather holster from one of the many tutorials found here. I bought one before and it wouldn't last 2 minutes at an actual troop! My actual question is about the pants, shirt, and vest. Whenever I do a search of the topic, I always find that they can be used with alterations. I click the link and it only tells me how to modify the pants (i.e. pintuck, riding seam, and embroidered bloodstripes). I never find any info about how or if the vest and shirt need to be modified. Is this due to the fact that they are good to go as is or are they so off the mark the should be scrapped and never used. I will sit down in the next few days and become a "stitch knot-see". I will pour over pics and descriptions to find out the actual set up of both vest and shirt(ESB and ROTJ). Through this, I may find out an answer to this question, but, in the meantime, I thought I'd throw out a question and start some dialogue. Thanks for the assistance and I look forward to the hunt! han solo
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Delta5Actual ()



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one? I know it's a common newb question , but...... Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya,

You are absolutely right, there is terrific Costumebase specific pants modification guides but not so much mod guide information for the CB shirt, vest and jacket.

There are excellent breakdowns of the actual movie costume shirts, vests and jackets in a few threads in then Fringe threads which I'm sure you'll find - let us know if there is still uncertainty. While they may not say what is specifically needed to do to CB bits, they do show what details any Han Solo shirt, vest or jacket should have.

I stress that the following answer is from a costuming / RL point of view, not an exact movie maximum accuracy replica point of view (that is covered by the break down threads and I'll leave that to those to answer):

The CB shirts are acceptable as they are. Not 100% movie accurate, not perfect, but acceptable. Obviously you need the "right" movie version shirt and it needs to fit properly.

The only costume standards that the CB shirts don't match are the "Cuffs for the sleeves of the placket shirt" in the optional formal requirements of the ROTJ Han costumes. As long as you have the other four formal requirements as well as the required items, you could still have enough for a formal approved ROTJ Han costume.

I'm not confident enough with their current vests or jackets to comment in detail on those. The ones I've seen in person are from a few years ago and may have been improved since.

Another disclaimer about the answer above, CB stuff may have changed (for better or worse) since I last looked at examples of their work. Also if you contact them, I believe CB may sell individual parts of the costume separately.

Short answer:

Pants need mods (pin tuck, riding seam and replacement blood stripes) but can be made acceptable.
Shirts can be acceptable as is.
Personally not able to comment on the vests and jacket.

I personally wouldn't consider using any of their other stuff. The vests / jackets are up there with a good blaster, gunbelt and boots as iconic pieces of the Han costumes, so I'd advise making sure they are done to a higher standard / quality than CB tend to supply.

Enjoy the research - it is fun and we are fortunate to have first class information and expertise in the Fringe threads and group. This includes comparisons of some of the sources and options available.

If you have any other questions, just keep them coming.

Greg.
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding vest / similar as with pants ... similar as with shirts ... Smile ...

For ANH version ... main modify requirement coming already from standards:

Quote:
Black twill vest with 4 channels/loops at the back yoke, 1 large back pocket and 4 front pockets; the upper right pocket must have quarter moon shape in the upper right corner, with a smaller rectangular pocket on top of the larger pocket. Vest should be waist length.


... this smaller rectangular pocket on top of the larger pocket is missing on Costumebase ANH vest ... but it is easy to fix it ...



... piece of fabric can be taken from 4 channels/loops - they are no accurate at all - but If you dissemble them and put them as they should be ... you figure out, that there is enough fabric for this one small pocket Smile ...

As I am not LCJ, I am not able to tell, if this would be only one required modification, but definitely should not be missed Wink ...
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway ... here is big Han Solo vest discussion which includes nice pictures of modified Han Solo Costumebase vests (ANH, ROTJ) ...

http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15642&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Wink
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Delta5Actual ()



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually read that thread about the vest differences and details. I found it very insightful and well put together. The only reason I'm even asking is price and availability. I don't have any, and I do mean any, skill with needle and thread. You might as well hand me a disassembled space shuttle with no instructions and tell me to reassemble it Laughing . I just saw that the pants are fixable with a modest amount of work and was curious if the shirt and vest were the same way. Just wondering if anyone else has used them with any success or feeling of satisfaction. I don't mind all the research and the combing through the threads. This place is a treasure trove of info and I plan to leave no stone unturned. Thanks for the feedback and the hunt continues..... Mr. Green
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sze-wan ()



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: the CB pants are made in the style of pleated dress pants.
They have pleats in the front, to make the pants more baggy.
But Han's pants are flat-front, non-pleated. They are not baggy at all.

The Luke Skywalker CRL lists "flat front, tight fitting" as part of the requirement.
But, for Han Solo, this does not seem to matter.
The Han Solo CRL addresses the color of pant and the size of the stripe,
but no mention of fit, or clothing style, as a factor in the judging.


Are pleated/baggy pants allowed/recommended for Han Solo? Is the style of pant relevant?
Or, does the RL require flat-front pants for Han Solo, as it does for Luke Skywalker?

Here is what I mean.

left side: costumebase style and fit; right side, Han Solo style and fit.

Are the pants in the RL judged on fit and clothing style? or just color?
Are pleated pants allowed, for characters with flat front pants?
And would this apply to Luke Skywalker as well? thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shirt and vest...maybe with some alterations.

I would go woth Cosplaysky if you are on a budget. Their pants are much better. I have them and you just need to add the pintuck.
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theeviltwin ()
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sze-wan wrote:
Question: the CB pants are made in the style of pleated dress pants.
They have pleats in the front, to make the pants more baggy.
But Han's pants are flat-front, non-pleated. They are not baggy at all.

The Luke Skywalker CRL lists "flat front, tight fitting" as part of the requirement.
But, for Han Solo, this does not seem to matter.
The Han Solo CRL addresses the color of pant and the size of the stripe,
but no mention of fit, or clothing style, as a factor in the judging.


Are pleated/baggy pants allowed/recommended for Han Solo? Is the style of pant relevant?
Or, does the RL require flat-front pants for Han Solo, as it does for Luke Skywalker?

Here is what I mean.

left side: costumebase style and fit; right side, Han Solo style and fit.

Are the pants in the RL judged on fit and clothing style? or just color?
Are pleated pants allowed, for characters with flat front pants?
And would this apply to Luke Skywalker as well? thanks.


Good questions and points. All RL costumes need to fit like they do in the movies. Obviously not everyone has the same body type as the original actors, but the costume parts will never be accurate to the wearer unless they fit proportionally to each other and to the wearer as they did the actor and costume in the movie.

The fit of a costume is often very distinctive but underestimated. They way Han's costume parts fit him are actually very important in making it look accurate. E.g. it isn't just his gunbelt that is distinctive, it is the way the front buckle is lower, the relative position of the dropped holster in relation to the top of the pants and boots, etc. Get the fit of the pieces just right and your costume will look really special. Get fit really wrong and the costume will be inaccurate, not look right and will not be approved.

Han's pants have a pin tuck down the front of each leg and a riding seam on the back. Adding these to the CB pants will take material and could be used as part of a method for removing any baggieness. I'm not recommending CB pants but keep in mind that any pants you get (including CB pants) may need extra alterations to make them fit well.

Han's pants aren't baggy but I wouldn't go as far as saying they were tight fitting like Luke's look (including the end scene of ANH). I would describe them as very fitted, but ultimately the best descriptions are the photos and screen caps from the movies.

Difficult call on the pleats. Pockets are specifically mentioned in the standards as they are very obvious inaccuracies. Assuming the costumer's body shape requires the more generous room afforded by the pleats for the pants to look fitted for that wearer, I'd have to factor in how obvious the pleats are (especially as they may be covered by the gunbelt). I don't want to give a blanket no without more research and examples because:
1. They may be necessary to give more space without making the trousers baggy around the legs for some costumers. For some they be appropriate and result in the movie fit.
2. They may not be 100% movie accurate, but does pleats on Han's pants really make a difference to the costume? Are they obvious / draw attention (e.g. like pockets)? Will anyone at events who sees the costumer care?

At the time of writing this, I'd have to judge it on an application by application basis. Perhaps someone with modded CB pants can help answer this question with detailed pictures? Best recommendation is source pants that fundamentally match the movie.

There's a note on the standards list that states that the standards are a guide yet are not an all inclusive outline of required elements. Basically the costume must look like it does in the movie and fit like it does in the movie. You could submit an application with you wearing the actual Han Solo costume Ford wore in the movie, but unless you were a similar build and height to Ford, the costume will look either too big or small and I wouldn't be able to approve it.

Wherever you source your costume, make the effort to get it to fit properly. Not only is proper fit necessary for RL approval, but it will make your costume look far better, and most importantly, will make you happier with it.
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sze-wan ()



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your discussion of "fit" makes perfect sense, but the pleats are not really a matter of fit.
They are a matter of clothing style.

No matter your body shape, it is possible to get clothes that "fit", in any number of different clothing styles.

The picture I provided shows the same model wearing 2 different pairs of pants.
Both pants "fit" the wearer, perfectly. But they are different styles.

No matter your body type, a pair of pleated pants will always look different on you,
than a pair of flat front pants on the same person.

Therefore, even on a case-by-case basis,
I cannot imagine a case where the "look" of pleated pants would be more accurate, on ANY wearer,
than a pair of flat front pants on the same person.



Would it be correct to say that we should try to emulate Han's "style" of clothing,
and not just the "fit" of Han's clothing?

And by that token, would it be correct to say that pleated pants from Costumebase are just simply the wrong "style"?
thanks.
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Nikkos Khann (Conley Nichols)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sze-wan wrote:
Your discussion of "fit" makes perfect sense, but the pleats are not really a matter of fit.
They are a matter of clothing style.

No matter your body shape, it is possible to get clothes that "fit", in any number of different clothing styles.

The picture I provided shows the same model wearing 2 different pairs of pants.
Both pants "fit" the wearer, perfectly. But they are different styles.

No matter your body type, a pair of pleated pants will always look different on you,
than a pair of flat front pants on the same person.

Therefore, even on a case-by-case basis,
I cannot imagine a case where the "look" of pleated pants would be more accurate, on ANY wearer,
than a pair of flat front pants on the same person.



Would it be correct to say that we should try to emulate Han's "style" of clothing,
and not just the "fit" of Han's clothing?

And by that token, would it be correct to say that pleated pants from Costumebase are just simply the wrong "style"?
thanks.


I would to agree that perhaps this may not be the correct "style" for Han Solo. I see no evidence at all that any of the Han Solo pants were pleated and so therefore in the interest of being accurate and looking as close to the movie costume as possible, I (myself) would not want to have pleated pants. The pleats on just about anyone makes the pants look baggy and Hans pant are definitely not baggy. So for my taste and for anyone considering the CB pants, think about how they will probably fit.
I have never modded any pants as I made mine from scratch with a pattern which I modified, but having sewn them, I would think it would be very hard to remove pleats if they do make your costume look baggy.

IMHO,
Conley
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried to look at my various costume books, etc. and as far as I can see, the Han Solo pants do not have pleats...

I think what makes them look like they have pleats is the pintuck on the front. Other than that,I don't see any other pleat type of fold on the front of the pants...

I say go with straight legged pants with no pleats...if you do make or buy them, you can always trim them in to make them fit less baggy..
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sze-wan ()



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Removing a 1-inch pleat on each side would increase the size of the waistband by 4 inches.
A size 34 pleated pant would become a size 38 flat front pant.
You would need to construct a new waistband.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would avoid patterns with pleats for sure... it will only make it more difficult.
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sze-wan ()



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patterns aside, the costumebase pants already have pleats.
This is how they are made, in the style of pleated dress pants.

When it comes to "modifying" these pleated dress pants, as recommended by the RL,
it seems like "remove pleats" and "construct new waistband" should also be included on the list.

Suddenly it doesn't seem worth it:
a size 34 costumebase pant would suddenly become a size 38 "flat front" pant.
(they won't "fit", after all that work).
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