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DRESS UNIFORM STANDARD - DISCUSSION
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HazardThree (Jon Paulson)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: DRESS UNIFORM STANDARD - DISCUSSION Reply with quote

Hello Pilots - this is a discussion that has been long overdue. Currently we have several pilots who have both formal and informal versions of the "White Coat" Dress Uniform ... and interest is growing once again. Therefore I think it's time we get this nailed down. However, before we submit this to the Costume Standards Committee, the RLSC would like to get your input.



EDIT >>> Here is the uniform description(s) from Aaron Allston's book "Star Wars: X-wing : Starfighters of Adumar."

Quote:
Pg. 39 - uniform is described as "The New Republic pilot's dress uniform wasn't too bad, but it had been designed in the depths of some government public relations department, without the input of those who would have to wear it, and many pilots just did not care for it."

Pg. 145 - "The New Republic officers' dress uniform – designed in committee long ago, [...] – was not the fashion disaster its wearers made it out to be. It started with a black sleeveless turtleneck body stocking and boots. Over it went a white jacket, a V-necked garment that fastened at about naval level and below. A broad red band ran along the left hem of the garment, up over the shoulder and at an angle down the back, with a rank designation in gold on the red band above the wearer's left breast. A gray belt over the jacket completed the outfit.

There were variations to the uniform, with Starfighter Command utilizing black body stockings and Fleet Command preferring gray for instance.
...

It was, ... the body stocking that most wearers objected to. Flight suits and pilot day uniforms were baggy things festooned with pockets. They were comfortable. The wearer could carry
his datapad, plus amusements and weapons for half a squad, in those deep pockets. The dress uniform body stocking had no pockets, and the jacket had only couple small ones - barely enough for datacards. Too, the body stocking revealed any extra weight its wearer might be carrying, a fact not at all appreciated by image-conscious officers … and pilots were the most image-conscious of all."


And here is a Draft Standard that was written by Rick Kerman on my request a while back. I've already added some points, but it needs some tweaking for several reasons listed below the standard.

Quote:
DRESS UNIFORM STANDARDS:

- Black, mock turtleneck, sleeveless unitard. Or a black mock turtleneck top and black pants of the same material or similar material of matching shade. Unitard or shirt/pants should be well-fitted.

- White, long sleeved jacket that closes and overlaps about an inch, starting just below the naval. Jacket does not have a collar and should fall below the hips. Jacket material should be be of medium weight material and should not be sheer or translucent.

- Red sash that extends from the left shoulder and follows the edge of the left side of the jacket in the front, and goes from the left shoulder down and curves to line up with the spine in the back. Sash should hang even with the hem of the jacket and be secured in place by being stitched to the jacket or attached with snaps or velcro, or some other method of attachment. Width of the sash should range between 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 inches depending on your size.

- Medium to heavyweight gray fabric belt that closes in the back. Depending on your size the width of the belt should be anywhere between 3½ to 5½ inches. This belt should not be so lightweight as to bunch up significantly.

- Black knee-high, leather looking, boots (non-wet look).. Boots should be flat or have a heel of less than 1 inch. 13" tall standard Pilot boots are acceptable in not "worn" lookingPants must be tucked into the boots.

- Fabrics recommended: a thicker material such as twill or gabardine. Highly recommend use of the same fabric for jacket, belt and sash if possible.

Rank Bar Specs:

-Gold rank bar with rank and rebel bird attached to the red sash. Rank bar should be made of plastic resin, wood or any other light material. If too heavy will pull down on jacket via the sash.

-Total length is 4-5/16 inches, total width is 2-1/4 inches, thickness is 1/4 inch. Rank bar should be the same with as the sash.

-Consists of two rectangles, 1-1/2" long by 2-1/4" wide. Upper rectangle is for the rank for Lt. to General. The tips of the rank dots painted red. The lower rectangle contains the Rebel Insignia centered in red.

-Between the rectangles is an area, 1-5/15" by 1-5/8", divided horizontally into three rows. These are for awards earned.

-Connected to the uniform by magnets, four on the badge, and two sets of strips with two magnets each.


There are several inconsistencies in the reference pics that we'll need to address in order to get a complete standard:

- Sash length (down the back or not, to the belt or further, etc.)
- Pants vs. Body Stockings
- Stripe on Pants
- Epaulets vs. none
- Boots vs. Shoes
- Rank Badge specs

And we even have to decide WHAT to call it ... Dress Uniform, Rebel Pilot Dress Uniform, Alliance Dress Uniform, New Republic Dress Uniform, Alliance/New Republic Dress Uniform (the mind boggles!)

To help with this discussion, I've included the following links to the first recently completed sections of the RLSC PILOT ARCHIVES. If you have any reference pics that are not currently included in these two sections, please email them to rlsc@rebellegion.com so that we can update the archive!

ALLIANCE DRESS UNIFORM section of the Pilot Archives:

http://s1172.beta.photobucket.com/user/RL_StarfighterCommand/library/EU%20Pilots/Alliance%20Dress%20Uniform

And here's it's sub-forum on DRESS UNIFORM RANK BADGES:

http://s1172.beta.photobucket.com/user/RL_StarfighterCommand/library/EU%20Pilots/Alliance%20Dress%20Uniform/Rank%20Badge

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on this and getting your help in nailing this Standard down.

- Fly Casual!
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Last edited by HazardThree (Jon Paulson) on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have put those standards into a translator, because it's a bit complicated to me ... but it's now more chaos.
I will ask our Base CO if he want to transelate it for me into dutch/flemish, to many words i don't know.

the inch sizes ... is this how i need to convert them:

lenght: 5.25 inch = 13.335 cm
width: 2.50 inch = 6.35 cm
rectangles: 1.5 inch = 3.75 cm / 2.50 inch = 6.35 cm
between rectangles: 1.333333... inches = 2.33333 ... cm / 1.625 inch = 4.1275 cm

must the rankbar really made in glass fider?
i'm not allowed to work with that kind of materiaal because of healthy issues.

if, please not the version that was made before, to be honest ... they are not that pretty:



- - - - - - - - - - -

1 - Sash Lenght, i think it depend what version will get the standards.
2 - Pants.
3 - Same as the sash, it depend what version will get the standards.
4 - I have doubts about it ...
5 - Same answer as 1 - 3, depend what version will get the standards.
6 - I will make tomorrow (i mean in a few hours, another version than the first one i made and put it online ...)

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Can every random member made this costume and join like this the squadron, or is this only for the Pilots as second costume .

- - - - - - - - - -

You have also written about " The tips of the rank dots painted red " , blue should also be alowed fitted by the rank of course. As rebel pilot i have the rank Lt. Col. so it will be blue dots.

- - - - - - - - - - -

' divided horizontally into three rows. These are for awards earned ' are indeed something like this, http://www.docstoc.com/docs/43976346/LEGION-OF-FRONTIERSMEN-AUSTRALIAN-DIVISION-RIBBON-CHART ... but ithey only appaers in the first versions, the last version like picture above have 5 stripes.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Sorry if i am wrong about all those above
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it helps at all, from X-wing Starfighters of Adumar (page 145-146):

"The New Republic officers' dress uniform - designed in committee long ago...."

"It started with a black sleeveless body stocking and boots. Over it went a white jacket, a V-necked garment that fastened at about navel level and below. A broad red band ran along the left hem of the garment, up over the shoulder and at an angle down the back, with a rank designation in gold on the red band above the wearer's left breast. A grey belt over the jacket completed the outfit."

"There were variations to the uniform, with Starfighter Command utilizing black body stockings and Fleet Command preferring gray, for instance."

"The dress uniform body stocking had no pockets, and the jacket had only a couple of small ones - barely large enough for datacards."
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the body stocking would be more accurate but nobody wants to see me in that. I think black dress pants.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol with my jek porkins sizes and if i find stockings stuff i will look like this

http://p90x.iamcanadian.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/michelin-man.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



i could not sleep ... i have re-read the comics i have ... i will now go cleaning the house of my parents, and than i will work on a rankbar ...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a back shot showing the "sash" going all the way to the base



There are many contradictions to this as well but it looks much better in my opinion

Here is a look at the fleet command one as well


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for opening up discussions on this. I'll watch it but I haven't made this costume & I trust you guys will hammer out the exact specifications for it & Jon, can you please PM the final draft & I'll make sure it gets updated into the costume standards.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Domino i have made my jacket like that ...

But i have add epoulets to it because i seen them in the various design ... and in various designs not ...




These are 3 prototypes of the rankbar i made, this afternoon i will try to to to the city to get some materiaal to make another version of the first one, and to look for smaller strass stones.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the epaulettes I may have to retrofit them to mine.

I have the original rank bar posted earlier but I must say I like your design also.

I agree the rank should reflect your rank at the time, I was a commander of the squadron at the time hence the 3 red dots.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well first view of the standards, this needs to change:

-Consists of two rectangles, 1-1/2" long by 2-1/4" wide. Upper rectangle is for the rank for Lt. to General. The tips of the rank dots painted red. The lower rectangle contains the Rebel Insignia centered in red.

Some ranks are designated with blue instead of red. I know the rebel rank insignia are inconsistent but we should stick with established colors like Commander in blue, etc.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rank_insignia_of_the_Rebel_Alliance

I also feel that the boot standards may be over descriptive as well. Lets not worry so much about heel sizes, does it really need to be specified like that?

I'm going to try and make some time and go over the Rogue Squadron comics and see if anything else comes to mind. Right now I'm really of a mind that the "sash" needs to be described more as a part of the jacket than it is. I feel that it possibly confusing, but I'll need to meditate on that more when I'm not as DST lagged.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sash length: seems to me there are two variations: diagonal down the back, which ends at the waist, or straight down the back, which goes all the way down the coat. I would say either is fine. I'd lean towards saying the front sash should always extend to the bottom of the jacket, since that's the majority of the reference.

In terms of body stockings versus pants, I understand that most people can't pull off a body stocking (even Starfighters of Adumar points out that the uniform is unflattering to most people, hence Wedge hates it), but as it is actually technically more accurate, it should be left in as the ideal. Pants as an option? Sure. But I wouldn't have the standards rate pants over the body stocking.

Stripe on the pants should be optional. It's not really in much of the reference, but it's there.

Epaulets seem to be present in the majority of the reference, so I say they should be a required item going forward.

Boots vs. shoes.... I'm going to stick with boots here. Comic book drawings always have to go through the lens of what is typical of Star Wars, and while (much to Jon's eternal dismay) pilot loafers are totally canon, you don't see many examples of non-boot shoes in Star Wars. Most of the reference appears to be boot-like in nature, the book specifically mentions boots, and I feel pretty comfortable with boots being the standard. I also don't think the standard is overly detailed- it's no more so than any of the princess costumes, and I think it's fair to say they should be flat boots and not heeled. This shouldn't be a problem for most people.

Those are my two cents, anyway. I'm glad to see there's finally some forward motion on standards for this costume, as I definitely want to make it at some point.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To cover the points raised above

Sash length : My preference for this is all the way to the hem at the back

Pants vs. Body Stockings : Not everybody can do lycra but the pants need to be not overly baggy, more like Solo style pants.

Stripe on Pants : Optional

Epaulets : These are in most of the pics they should be part of the CR

Boots vs. Shoes : I am also going with boots, that is the depiction in the books, I dont think there needs to be a differentiation between heeled or flat. The question here is do we allow pilot boots or do we specify riding/officer boots.

Rank Badge specs : Choose a standard and keep to it for all RLSC rank items, whether that is the page that James referenced or something that is squirreled away somewhere else.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

- Sash length = I say down the bottom of the jacket on the back .
- Pants vs. Body Stockings = I prefer pants
- Stripe on Pants  = I like the stripe , makes it look more official , optional is good.
- Epaulets vs. none = Epaulets definitely
- Boots vs. Shoes = I prefer boots
- Rank Badge specs = I leave this to the experts.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WedgeAntilles wrote:
Right now I'm really of a mind that the "sash" needs to be described more as a part of the jacket than it is.


I agree.
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