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Regarding ROTJ Pilots: A, B, and Y Wingers!
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WedgeAntilles (James Norman)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ywingfighter wrote:
I am sure this are helmets for the background actors and they are screen used.


If you're so sure you need to prove it.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing photos. Thanks for sharing them.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ywingfighter wrote:
I am sure this are helmets for the background actors and they are screen used.Here are a few more pictures I had found.


They're not. Unless they were in scenes that were deleted, but these helmets do not appear in any scene in the finished movie (though I think I've seen the A-wing helmet, with the top shield added, in a backstage picture). Granted I can't prove it, but I've never seen any helmets matching those in the movie.

The A-wing pilot helmets in the movie, for example, have the top shield. The only time I've seen an A-wing pilot helmet without the top shield is in a pre-production picture, which I wouldn't consider an accurate reference. And even that pre-production picture didn't have the Y-wing pilot helmet greeblie.

As for the B-wing pilot helmet, the greeblies are completely different to any I've ever seen pictures of. It doesn't have the Y-wing helmet greeblie, the cords are different, the screen-used B-wing pilot helmets don't have a black chin strap (it's white) or the chin cup (except in the deleted Sullustan B-wing pilot scene, but that's also a different helmet), and the paint scheme is completely different from any I've seen on-screen. The back edge is wider on the screen-used helmets, and the black "wedge" on the top is moved up farther and doesn't hang off the back, plus it's painted the same as the base color of the helmet. The helmet is also missing the painted-on "vents", which every picture of the helmet I've seen has those vents painted in.

The B-wing pilot chestbox looks sparse and unfinished, and is much simplier than any other chestbox I've seen. The greeblies are completely different than any I've seen pictures of, and even the white "dome" in the big black circle is much smaller than any I've seen. The paint scheme is completely different, too (Though I kind of like it). Actually, I don't think that that chestbox is even from the same mold, the lines on the left side don't match up with any others. The chestbox doesn't look as well-made as the screen-used chestboxes, and if I didn't know better I would say that it was fan-made...

Honestly, I think that these were prototype pieces. The writing that the B-wing pilot helmet supposedly has inside-- "too thin"-- more-or-less proves that. There were changes made between these and those screen in the movie.

Here are some examples...


The top picture is the one in the auction, the bottom is one from the movie. You can see a pilot holding the bottom helmet-- or one very similar-- in the briefing room scene. He's holding it with the back of it facing out.
Notice that the color of the chin strap is different, there is no chin cup, and the greeblies are completely different (though granted some helmets had variation in the greeblies). There's also no Y-wing helmet greeblie. The "vents" are painted in.





Again, the greeblies are completely different, as is the chin strap. The way the microphone attaches is different. "Vents" are painted in. The back edge is wider, and the black "wedge" is moved up farther and painted the same as the base color of the helmet-- it also looks to be a slightly different shape and tapers down in the back more, but I can't say for certain.
Though the round circuit board-like piece on the right side "dome" looks to the the same (but painted differently) the circle inside is filled in with a black piece.
The cords are different, and notice that these helmets have a loose cord off the back of them, which I believe is supposed to connect into the ship cockpit. There's another example of this below.




Here you can see that cord I mentioned, and there's a thing rectangular plug on the end of it. The back edge is wider, the "wedge" is completely different, is moved up farther so it doesn't hang off the abck, and is painted the base color of the helmet. And again, no Y-wing helmet greeblie.





Here again is the white chin strap without any sort of chin cup. The microphone attaches differently than the helmet in the auction, and the "vents" are painted in. No Y-wing helmet greeblie.





The paint scheme on the auction chestbox is completely different from any B-wing pilot chestbox I've seen. None have the "hazard" painting on them. The greeblies are different, the white circle/dome is larger in the screen-used chestboxes and a completely different shape, the lines along the left edge are different, the auction chestbox is missing the "B" decal on the top that every other chestbox has and it's not painted in two-tone colors on the sides, and the screen-used chestboxes just look much more finished and "techy". And the biggest give-aways of all... the auction chestbox has no place to attach the hose and no slots for the straps, so it couldn't even attach onto a pilot's flak vest to begin with.

So yeah... The auction chestboxes are most likely test models. I doubt they were ever used in the movie, or if they were they were used in scenes that were deleted.
Still, they're neat pictures, and I'm glad to see them... But I wouldn't consider them "accurate" and wouldn't use them for references.

By the way, does anyone know what that round circuit board-like greeblie on the right side of the B-wing pilot helmet is? I've been looking for something like...
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ywingfighter (Frank)



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're so sure you need to prove it.[/quote]

Why should I prove it? Can you prove the converse?

Fact is: Many helmets was product for the movie...you can´'t see B-Wing Helmets but 3 A-Wings. There are no details to see and no good reference is available. The only B-Wing Helmet is from a Star Wars book but its not sure that you see it in the movie.
A good sample are the Y-Wing Helmets...all had very differend Greeeblies why not the other helmets.
Movie used or promo helmets this are Production helmets and I am happy to see it!
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to start and argument here but, actually, there is at least one B-wing pilot helmet seen in the movie. Like I mentioned, there's a pilot in the briefing room scene holding one. I think it's Keyan Farlander, but I'd have to go back and check to make sure.
I think that there's another pilot in the same scene holding another B-wing pilot helmet. I'd need to check again, though.

Either way, I think I've already kind of proved that the helmet, at least the B-wing pilot helmet, in the auction wasn't used in the movie, and isn't an actual movie prop per se. I don't know what they are exactly, but the "too thin" note seems to give me the idea that they're test pieces. The chestbox goes along with that theory as well, considering that that it doesn't have an attachment for the hose or any way to attach the chestbox to the flak vest.
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inkwell (Charlie Vick)



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That B-Wing Auction helmet looks similar to the one that Ten Numb wore in the deleted scene on the Blue Ray. Not sure if the paint scheme matches but it definitely looks similar. The shield might possibly have been omitted to allow it to fit on the Alien costume head?

The deleted scene has Ten Numb and a Mon Calamari both in what I assume are B-Wing cockpits. They are wearing green suits but it is definite not an A-Wing cockpit. I'm not a B-Wing expert though so the helmet in the cut scene might be different than the auction one and I'm just not seeing it.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inkwell wrote:
That B-Wing Auction helmet looks similar to the one that Ten Numb wore in the deleted scene on the Blue Ray. Not sure if the paint scheme matches but it definitely looks similar. The shield might possibly have been omitted to allow it to fit on the Alien costume head?


While the Sullustan in the deleted scene is indeed a B-wing pilot and is wearing a B-wing pilot helmet, it's not the one shown in the auction... It's one that was custom-made to fit that head. The one in the auction-- the "human style"-- is much too small to fit on a Sullustan head... I have a few of the screen-accurate B-wing pilot helmet molds and they're rather small (I'm wearing one in my signature picture).
Ten Numb has a custom B-wing pilot helmet that's larger and thicker to accommodate the size of a Sullustan head.

And yeah, that Mon Calamari is supposed to be an A-wing pilot but looks to be in a B-wing cockpit... Go figure.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny this is up for auction as a while back I was offered a B-wing chest and helmet set. Unpainted. It was a preproduction cast off with similar things written inside about it being too thin.

One was put together, another was still in two halves of a shell but the price was too rich for my blood. I had contacted a couple people here and the RPF about maybe getting them as a group thing to work molds from but nothing came of it.

maybe someone bought it and painted the sucker.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfie wrote:


maybe someone bought it and painted the sucker.

If it was fan-made that would explain a few things. Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:
Wolfie wrote:


maybe someone bought it and painted the sucker.

If it was fan-made that would explain a few things. Razz


well they werent fan made but they were being touted as being production made cast offs that were not used for one reason or another. Wonder if I still have some of the pictures of those I was offered.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what the round circuit looking piece on the helmet originally is but you could make one easy enough with aluminum pop rivets.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfie wrote:
Blue Banshee Leader wrote:
Wolfie wrote:


maybe someone bought it and painted the sucker.

If it was fan-made that would explain a few things. Razz


well they werent fan made but they were being touted as being production made cast offs that were not used for one reason or another. Wonder if I still have some of the pictures of those I was offered.

Well, I meant put together and painted by a fan. Not necessarily having the helmet cast made. Guess I should have explained that better. Razz
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inkwell wrote:
I'm not sure what the round circuit looking piece on the helmet originally is but you could make one easy enough with aluminum pop rivets.

Never heard of those. I'll have to look them up...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use them all the time in metal roofing. They are how you join two pieces of thin guage metal together to form miters and detail work. But you can put a rivet in the something else just to have that look of small donut like metal pieces.

Lowes and Home Depot both sell a cheap pop rivet gun and aluminum and steel rivets. The steel or stainless steel rivets are more expensive but would look better. They would be a shiny metallic and the steel versions don't have as much issue leaving part of the head in the hole when you break them.

---

These are pop rivets. They come in different sizes. If your local Lowes or home depot only carries a the 1/8 sizes you can look at a construction specialty place like Fastenal or what ever is local to you for different sizes. Just get as short of a head as possible so you don't have much rivet shaft on the other side of the circular board that attaches to the helmet. These are painted in the example but they also come non-painted:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_45315-412-RSAW1/8IP_0__?productId=1087339&Ntt=rivets&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Drivets&facetInfo=



Here is the tool you will need to "pop" them. Just be ready to take the gun back if it won't work. I got stuck working on the road when my normal rivet gun broke and the new red handle guns that lowes and home depot carry was crap. I bought a couple before I got one that would work. Could have just been bad QC at the factory in China as the old orange handle ones they sold worked fine. You can always rooster the tool slightly to bend the nail shank on the rivet to make it bite if it gives you trouble.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_45272-412-RH200S_0__?productId=1087313&Ntt=rivet+tool&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Drivet%2Btool&facetInfo=

----

Hope it helps. Also if none of that made sense feel free to ping me via PM.


Last edited by inkwell (Charlie Vick) on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inkwell wrote:


Hope it helps. Also if none of that made sense feel free to ping me via PM.


Ah, thanks for the information! I'll have to go out and see what I can find.

I'll probably make the round piece out of clay or perhaps foam (and then cover said foam with glue and resin to harden it up), so I could probably just push the rivets in by hand without much problem. After that I'll make a rubber mother-mold of the piece and can make some resin casts of it. Paint it up and voila. Smile
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