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Wookie Skull Steps Clarification
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt, you mentioned that you use ecoflex rather than dragonskin. What shore hardness do you use and is there any issues when punching hair into this material?
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used ecoflex 00-30. I decided on this after consulting Ryan (Zaxmon) and Marty (Wookieewannabe).
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SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will admit after seeing Matt's choice for the Skin it might be the more attractive of the two products. Not having used it before, but there is a deffinate fluidity of the material that dragonskin does not have. So if the idea is to have multiple moving parts and lip snarls you might have an easier go with the eco flex.

Maybe on my 4th mask I will give that a try...lol


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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ecoflex is also less viscous in its liquid state, makking it much easier to inject via an injection gun (which you can get at Harbor Freight for $10).
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GotWookiee wrote:
Ecoflex is also less viscous in its liquid state, makking it much easier to inject via an injection gun (which you can get at Harbor Freight for $10).

Sounds great! You still go for a 1/4" or thicker mask so you can attach hair right? I'm assuming since you've successfully used it you didn't have any issues with hair.

I still like Bob's idea of 1 layer dragon skin, 1 layer DS& slacker then final layer of Dragon. Seems like the layering gives you the best of both worlds. However being a noob, and not wanting to go too complex my first time around, I think I'll try the Ecoflex. Even per Smooth-on's site, the Ecoflex has the same elasticity as Dragon Skin with Slacker mixed in.
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't punched hair into the ecoflex, yet, but 1/4" is a commonly recommended thickness in pretty much all the training material I have encountered. Bear in mind that thinner skins are weaker and likely rip and thicker skins harder to move.

It gets thinner on the back of the chin (where the chin meets the top of the neck) and the eye sockets.

Here is the injection gun I used:
Oil Suction Gun: $9.99

These will probably work, too:
Power Plunger: $5.99
Multi-Use Transfer Pump: $7.99
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Dougie Fett ()



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to throw another one in the mix...Platsil Gel 00 or 10, the numbers represent the shore value or hardness of the product.

I have found both types to be excellent for ease of use (equal mix of 2 parts by volume, can demould in 1 hour).

Generally I'd use Gel 10 in the rigid areas (from the nose upwards) and Gel 00 for the lips.
It also takes hairpunching really well.
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dougie Fett wrote:
Generally I'd use Gel 10 in the rigid areas (from the nose upwards) and Gel 00 for the lips.
It also takes hairpunching really well.

Wow! All great ideas. Wonder if you could do the same with the smooth-on versions? Use Dragon skin for the top half and ecoflex for the bottom half?

So many ideas. Well by the time I get to my head (at least the wookiee face skin) maybe Matt might have hair punched his mask and tried it out.
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GotWookiee wrote:
Here is the injection gun I used:
Oil Suction Gun: $9.99

These will probably work, too:
Power Plunger: $5.99
Multi-Use Transfer Pump: $7.99

Matt, are you using the injection gun as a form of "degassing"?

I read the following on smooth-on's site:
    For best results, Ecoflex® 00-30 should be vacuum degassed prior to pouring into the mold. This will help eliminate any bubbles from causing defects in the finished piece.
I guess this is the catch to using Ecoflex.
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never degassed my silicones. Ecoflex is pretty thin so as long as you use the bombs away method (also called long pour) you shouldn't have any problems. Basically when you pour the mixed silicone into your injection gun or mold you pour it so the stream of silicone is very thin and flat and has a long way to fall. This way most of the air bubbles will pop on the way down. I'm looking at my Chew skin right now and it is entirely free of any visible air bubbles.

An injection gun is a means of filling an already closed mold. Set the mold face down. You drill a small hole in your core mold piece at the lowest point of the mold (the inside of the chin on mine). The size of the hole is just big enough to insert the nozzle of your injection gun in.
Insert the nozzle and seal it up with some clay. Pour your silicone into the back of the injection gun, then push the plunger all the way down.
You will need to drill tiny vent holes around the edges of the eyes and the back of the skin. This allows air to escape from the otherwise airtight mold. Once silicone starts flowing out of the air vents, plug the holes with clay and continue pushing the plunger in until the mold is full or the injection gun is empty (hopefully those happen at the same time).

Ryan Rick's Blog illustrates this

This is a common method used to cast silicone and foam rubber skins and it really rocks. Every pro video I have ever purchased on the subject use this method.
I've found it to be much easier and more precise than the brush up method. With this method I can walk away as soon as the mold is filled, and the skin is always exactly the same very time, which means I can run multiple skins and be sure they will fit the underskull exactly the same way every time.
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GotWookiee wrote:
Ryan Rick's Blog illustrates this

This is a common method used to cast silicone and foam rubber skins and it really rocks. Every pro video I have ever purchased on the subject use this method.
I've found it to be much easier and more precise than the brush up method.

Wow! After going through that "how to", I feel like I just gave birth! (old Rodney Dangerfield line LOL)

I guess since I was making my lifecast of ME out of Smooth-on "bodydouble" and plaster, I was going to do the same with the wookiee head, but I guess I could make a support shell out of fiberglass (if it's compatible. with bodydouble). Or I could cast the face of the wookiee in bodydouble, then plaster, then after the plaster is cured, reinforce it with fiberglass.
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my lifecast I did gel-10 with a plaster bandage jacket. Get medical grade bandages like gypsona. Most of the art store stuff is worthless.

My Wookiee mask mold is fiberglass. I use a tooling fiberglass gel-coat for the detail layer, then layed up 3 layers of fiberglass matte with a fourth layer on the flange where the mold pieces join and bolt together.
For my core I used two layers all around to give it more flexibility (very helpful during the demold).

The final skin is ecoflex 00-30 with 10lbs. density rigid foam-it from for the skull. Dental acrylic is used for the teeth and gums.
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Kallabeccani (Angela Basinger)



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading all this I am scared lol. It doesn't seem that hard but knowing me.....
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GotWookiee wrote:
My Wookiee mask mold is fiberglass. I use a tooling fiberglass gel-coat for the detail layer, then layed up 3 layers of fiberglass matte with a fourth layer on the flange where the mold pieces join and bolt together.

On your clay wookiee head, did you use paste wax or PVA mold release to help get your fiberglass mold off? Or did you just sacrifice the clay head? I know you use monsterclay, I was wondering if it can be reused if you put wax or resin release on it.

I've made fiberglass molds before, just not of something made of clay. Usually hard items like wood or plastic. I use the wax and the PVA release on those projects.

Apologies if I'm asking redundant questions Smile I've just haven't used clay as a medium. I know doing it's the best way, but if I can learn from you guys, I might be able to minimize my mistakes. Thanks again!
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sealed my sculpture with acrylic clear coat spray and then put down two coats of PVA. No wax, though many of the videos I consulted used a spray wax as well like j-wax, and many didn't. The clay will be fine after you melt it down and skim the crap that floats to the surface. PVA as you know will peel off when dried.

Your sculpture won't survive mold making. You will end up cleaning the clay out of the mold using a solvent (I used Citris Solve) and wood sculpting tools. You want to use wooden tools as they won't scratch or damage the mold surface, unlike metal tools, which will.

When I run a skin I use a 50/50 mix of dish soap and water as a release agent. Brush it in and let it dry, then run your skin. When you are trying to demold the skin and break the vacuum seal that has formed, pour water into the cracks and it will reactivate the soap and your mold will pop apart easy cheesy.
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