Forum and Costume Controls

   FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  medals.php?sid=c9b25bf286cc33aa51428c26b16da2c2Medals   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in

       
REMINDER: Do not change your e-mail address yourself. Please read this first for why.

ANH Ben Kenobi belt pictures Part 6

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Jedi -> Obi-Wan Kenobi
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 339
Location: Houston, Texas
Medals: None

PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: ANH Ben Kenobi belt pictures Part 6 Reply with quote

As requested - a study of the large greeblie on the right rear of the belt. In going through all the screen shots I have taken of the belt I also noticed another detail about the saber hook.

First the greeblie.

I could find no clear pictures of the entire greeblie in one shot. This first pic at least shows the relative length of the greeblie and how close the left edge is to the center of Ben's back. Later shots will show the left and right ends of the greeblie in relation to other belt items.

[img]

The next shot shows the left end of the greeblie in relation to the "D" ring and the two holes in the belt.

[/img]

This next shot shows two distinct ripples on the left side and the uneven bottom edge of the greeblie.

[img]

the next one shows that the greeblie is not centered between the top and bottom edge of the belt. It is slightly closer to the bottom edge.

[/img]

The next pic shows how close the stud is to the left end of the greeblie. It also is pretty clear on how the end is cut. It is pretty squared off except for the corners that are trimmed of slightly at a 45 degree angle.

[img]

The next two pictures show the right end of the greeblie and how close it is to the rear connector to the pouch. The stud is also very close to the right edge of the greeblie. Also, the right side of the greeblie is not warped like the left end.

[/img]

[img]

Finally, the following four shots show that the studs for the saber hook appear to be silver and not antique brass.

[/img]

(Ignore the circle around the front greeblie in the next pic)

[img]

[/img]

[img]

I think that pretty much exhausts this study of the ANH Kenobi belt. Let me know if you have any other items on the belt to explore. Hopefully someone will get the chance to see the entire costume on display somewhere and be able to study all its details.

Paul ˘┐˘
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Darth Severous ()



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Chicagoland Area
Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Ben Kenobi,

After reading all your wonderful threads on the "Old Ben" Belt, I tried my hand at drawing a schematic of sorts. I started with the assumption of a two inch wide belt.

It's my second try. The first had the "banana pouch" too big. This seems better. I hope the compression and decompression from photobucket doesn't mess-up the image too much. Enjoy! Smile

Dan S

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SithariRog (Roger Allen)
Legion Membership Officer
Legion Membership Officer


Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 3163
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Medals: 2 (View more...)
Philippines Typhon Relief (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG, that is incredible, Dan!

Thanks!!!
_________________

Past Offices: Asst. LMO, Legion Costume Judge, DCO KJO, BCO Tranquility Base
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 339
Location: Houston, Texas
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dan and welcome to the forum. You flatter me by making your first post here on the forum such a great rendition of the research I did on the Ben Kenobi belt. Recently I have been writing up all the details that I want incorporated in the new belt and you have summed them up so well in a picture. The only thing I would change is the greeblie on the pouch. I believe it is more of an oval shape with a flat top and bottom rather than a football shape with pointed ends. Also - is that stitching on top of the pouch greeblie? You even have the ridge I suspect is on the small greeblie!

I'm hoping that Lgtsbr can come up with a good design for a functional pouch and we should be in business.

Thank you,

Paul ˘┐˘
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
lgtsbr ()



Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 309
Location: Syracuse, NY
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've actually been thinking about both the pouch and the buckle, I have a few ideas for the decorative greeblies Wink

Dave
_________________
www.saberbelt.com
www.facebook.com/Saberbelt
Voice of the Voiceless Without Censorship
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Master Vos (Tim)
Ryloth Base CO
Ryloth Base CO


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2363
Location: Adelaide
Medals: 1 (View more...)
Boston Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outstanding research very impressive Smile
_________________

Ryloth Base Website
Ryloth Base FB Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Darth Severous ()



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Chicagoland Area
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey SithaiRog & Ben Kenobi,

Thanks for the kind words. A little about me- I have wanted an Obi Wan lightsaber since I first saw it in '77. I recently began to acquire the stuff to build one. (I'm a little slow, I know.) This is what got me interested in your threads as it would need a belt to hang from, right?

A word about the pouch greeblie. I actually thought you would say the shape of the pouch itself was off. I made the flap oval and the pouch more "trapezoidal" (is that a word?) If we agree on the shape of the pouch, then based on this picture (Ben Kenobi's):

1) The pouch greeblie has stitching(?) on top. (See the little series of dots? I think that is the stitching. Or it might also be the design, like some shoes have all kinds of holes that serve no purpose other than decoration. Maybe not?)
2) The greeblie top shape matches the shape of the bottom of the pouch. Agree? Try cutting the greeblie shape out, flip it over and match it to the bottom. It fits pretty well- weird huh?
3) The bottom edge of the greeblie looks like it had two leather "pendants" that have been cut off. There are two "humps" along the bottom edge of the greeblie and it looks like the "pendants" have been badly cut off.

The cuts form a line that slopes from upper left to lower right in a fairly straight line- however, the original edge of the greeblie can be seen rather higher by the rivet on the far side (right side) of the greeblie (near where the other rivet probably is). Admittedly, I substituted a curve for all that so it lacks the humps and the bad cut job. I am willing to redraw what I just said if someone wants all that.

Regarding the "hexagonal" greeblie, I think the fold is generated by there still being leather under it. I'm not sure how the original looked (of course) but I think we can see another bad cut line just to the right of the "hex" greeblie's right edge where more leather was removed, like this (Ben Kenobi's again):

I'm guessing that that cut was once related to the little "ear" of leather sticking out of the left side of the "hex" greeblie. Anyway, what do you all think? I just want to make an accurate belt to hang my (some day) lightsaber on.

Dan S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SithariRog (Roger Allen)
Legion Membership Officer
Legion Membership Officer


Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 3163
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Medals: 2 (View more...)
Rebel Legion Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan....your attention to detail is spot on! I know some of the ref pics lack some detail, but decontructing a costume (or component) is key in figure out how to make it (whether we have good images or not). Granted, some folks get to see the movie props at various Star Wars exhibits (but...honeslty, I question some of the costumes that are displayed. For example, the Vader displayed at WSMI, when it was in my state, was a stunt Vader...and I swear the Anakin ROTS was a museum replicas...which wasn't a "replica").

And that last picture you show...tells me the belt connects in the front, which will be a LOT easier to put on than the "classic" Prequel belts (which almost always close in the back).

I'll be making one of these Old Ben costmes in the foreseeable future.

Do me a favor...when you start your belt, consider making pics and posting a tutorial Wink
_________________

Past Offices: Asst. LMO, Legion Costume Judge, DCO KJO, BCO Tranquility Base
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Darth Severous ()



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Chicagoland Area
Medals: None

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SithariRog wrote:
Do me a favor...when you start your belt, consider making pics and posting a tutorial Wink


Hey SithariRog,

Sure, I'll do a tutorial, but first let's agree on what's being made. Here are two additional pictures. If you copy and paste to M S Paint and zoom in you'll see it better. Scale is the same- 32 pixels per inch.

First picture: Here is what I think the pouch greeblie looks like. Instead of a stylized curve at the bottom, I put what I think I see. The bottom photo is a crop from Ben Kenobi- the top photo I have (badly) highlighted what I think I see, and the top left is my drawing based on my description in my second post above. Also, I darkened the rivet on the right so it would look more like what you are seeing in the picture. What do you think?


The second picture is my guess on what the little piece of leather looks like under the "hex" greeblie. I also noticed that the corner on the extreme left is square, not rounded as I originally drew it. It appears rounded because it has curled up I think. Also, I left the hole the size of the rivet head so you could copy and paste to see how it fits- obviously, the holes should be the size of the rivet shaft. The bottom belt picture should be used to update my old belt drawing.


Let me know what you think.

Dan S
_________________
"That's what governments are for, to get in a man's way." Capt. Mal Reynolds, Firefly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ben Kenobi (Paul Moomey)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 339
Location: Houston, Texas
Medals: None

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan - one thing I have found in reviewing these screen shots is to be cautious about hanging my hat on one picture. To support my assessment of the structure of the belt and items I have tried to get multiple shots to support what I am "seeing". On my series questioning whether the front greeblie is metal or leather I tried to see if lighting and shadows played a part in what some thought was metal. Having said that here are a couple more shots of the pouch greeblie I took.

0813a:



This first shot appears to show four holes (two pair) in the upper half of the greeblie. It also appears to me to have a fairly smooth edge on the bottom of the greeblie.

0879c:



This second shot also to me shows a fairly smooth lower edge (the lower left portion looks to me to be in a darker shadow due to Ben's shifting body positioon related to the set lighting). But it also shows apparently a different pair of "holes" in the greeblie on the right side angled from upper right to lower left in what appears to be the middle portion (top to bottom) of the greeblie.

0880c:



This last shot is I believe the same one you showed earlier. It appears to have a whole series of holes or stitches along the upper edge of the greeblie much higher that the "holes" in the first picture above, as well as the irregular edge you are proposing.

I think what is showing up in these pictures is the enhancement of the pictures is picking up lighting and shadows in the set area behind and above the camera shooting the scene. The stitches you see and the "holes" I see may be spot lights in a bank above and behind the camera. I hesitate to make a conclusion about the irregular bottom edge and the holes in the greeblie unless I can see other consistent pictures showing the same things in the same positions.

One thing I will say is I do agree with the placement of the straps holding the pouch. By that I mean I was thinking that the strap was entirely behind the pouch to allow the flap to freely open. After reviewing my pics and your rendition of the pouch straps I think you are correct in that the straps attach both behind and in front of the pouch. Assuming the front strap is only attached to the front pouch flap - it would still allow free opening of the pouch. I see that supported in several of my screen shots.

Regarding the front greeblie - My initial thoughts were what we were seeing were marks on the belt in front and behind the greeblie. I still believe the front is simply a mark on the belt but I'm not sure about what is appearing behind the greeblie. Your theory about the second layer of leather is interesting. I'm just wondering why they would construct the belt in such a way as to have a partial piece of leather under the greeblie. I understand it would be one way to explain the angular ridge near the front stud. I am of the theory it is simply a warping of somewhat thinner leather of the greeblie with age and flexing of the belt. I am going to try to get some more shots of the area behind the greeblie but it will have to wait until after Nov. 23 due to vacation between now and then.

EDIT: By the way, speaking of leather rippling you can see the rippling effect on the large greeblie on the right back portion of the belt in the pictures posted above in the initial part of this belt study. I feel it is also caused by natural aging of the leather and the flexing of the belt rather than something under the greeblie itself.

Paul ˘┐˘
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Darth Severous ()



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Chicagoland Area
Medals: None

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Ben Kenobi,

The reason I joined this forum was because of your steady reasoned approach to identifying the details of this prop. I hoped that by joining, we might enter into a discussion and arrive, not at what I thought, or what you thought, but what a few reasonable people, examining the evidence thought. To that end I say: Thanks for the futher input, I'll chew on this for awhile and I await your proposal for how some of the details might look. Have a great vacation! Smile

Besides, the only Obi Wan lightsaber parts I have at this time are the Calculator bubbles, the Graflex clamp, and the Browning booster, all repros. Also, while I'm waiting, maybe I'll make some more saber hooks. Cool

Dan S
_________________
"That's what governments are for, to get in a man's way." Capt. Mal Reynolds, Firefly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lgtsbr ()



Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 309
Location: Syracuse, NY
Medals: None

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Severous wrote:
The second picture is my guess on what the little piece of leather looks like under the "hex" greeblie. I also noticed that the corner on the extreme left is square, not rounded as I originally drew it. It appears rounded because it has curled up I think. Also, I left the hole the size of the rivet head so you could copy and paste to see how it fits- obviously, the holes should be the size of the rivet shaft. The bottom belt picture should be used to update my old belt drawing.


Let me know what you think.

Dan S


Hey Dan

I follow your logic on this but I respectfully disagree with you on multiple pieces of leather by this small greeblie. Having a total of 3 pieces of leather there would make that section much thicker in my opinion, that greeblie doesn't look much thinner than the main belt itself, so that is why I say it just doesn't look thick enough to be 3 pieces of leather. I'm not sure if we are just seeing shadows or perspective phantoms, I just wish there were more pictures of that back edge to be sure.

Just from making this belt countless times and now re-designing the whole thing, my opinion is that there is not a second piece of leather under the greeblie but the greeblie is actually covering either a larger hole or a decorative design in the base belt. I believe that is why you see the discoloration under the folded up front corner.

Of course there is another option, the belt was repaired again (poorly if that is the case) after filming and that accounts for some of the different things we see.

As far as I know, all the base belts used in the OT were re-purposed belts from previous wars and military eras. I know the reason you see the d-rings on the bottom of the belt is because the base belt was turned over and the shoulder belt was removed.

I do applaud you on all the design work you've done, bravo my friend. I think if you, Paul, and I work together on all the details, we will have the ultimate, definative Obi Belt

Once I finish up with my current project I will be going full swing into this belt as well as getting the OT Saber Hooks back into stock. So figure once Paul gets back from Vaca we can finish this up

Dave
_________________
www.saberbelt.com
www.facebook.com/Saberbelt
Voice of the Voiceless Without Censorship
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Darth Severous ()



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Chicagoland Area
Medals: None

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey lgtsbr,

I think regarding the "hex" greeblie we might agree on at least a couple things. 1) There is the base belt, the "hex" greeblie itself, and the little "ear" of leather on the left end, yes? 2) And the little "ear" of leather is a separate piece from the "hex" greeblie, and 3) It seems that must mean that we already have a stack of three pieces of leather on the left end.

Ben Kenobi mentioned in his most recent post that he felt the "hex" greeblie was "somewhat thinner leather." I am inclined to agree. If that's true (and it might not be) then: It seems that the heavy dark line in the MoM picture is a shadow. My guess was that the shadow was related to the piece of leather already present, which, I suspect, is "somewhat thinner leather" also. It could be that instead of a shadow, it's the discoloration you mention.

Now, could it be a wrinkle as BK suggests? Absolutely. There are wrinkles on the back greeblie. I definitely agree that the belt could very well be a repurposed belt, flipped as you suggest. I'm less clear on your alternative, but I'll try and draw it once I understand. I do love the friendly discussion and debate! Smile

Dan S
_________________
"That's what governments are for, to get in a man's way." Capt. Mal Reynolds, Firefly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lgtsbr ()



Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 309
Location: Syracuse, NY
Medals: None

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just can't see 3 pieces being there, the 'middle' piece would have to be very, very thin. I still think the back piece under the front greeblie is a damaged section of the main belt and maybe a piece has simply split away from age or worse........

There is a good way to check it, we can always test it with a prototype. I'm sure I can get some scrap pieces of thinner leather from Tandy next time I go over and we can try it out.

I agree, the discussion is awesome! I think we will be doing LOTS of it once this moves into physical prototype stage. My plan is going to be to go through each step to make sure I don't miss anything

Dave
_________________
www.saberbelt.com
www.facebook.com/Saberbelt
Voice of the Voiceless Without Censorship
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Jedi -> Obi-Wan Kenobi All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans. While not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred volunteer Rebel costuming group. Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2014 Lucasfilm Ltd. & ™ All rights reserved. Used under authorization.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group