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A Word on Jedi Robes
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SithariRog (Roger Allen)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: A Word on Jedi Robes Reply with quote

This is a knee-jerk response (post) to a number of Jedi Robes that the judges are seeing come through the application process...
(NOTE: While I am an LCJ and judge Jedi costumes, this post is not necessarily meant to speak for the Jedi Costume Judges, as a whole...and is meant to let you know what I look for in Jedi robes.)

The Generic Jedi Costume Standards say...regarding Jedi Robes:

Large Jedi robe or cloak, similar to canon robes/cloaks, in allowed color palette, with attached hood.

While there are some robes for named Jedi that differ in appearance from the "standard" Jedi Master's robe, these robes need to match the character's appearance for the named costume. To say this in another way, and taking an extreme approach...while Count Dooku was a Jedi at some point, we're not going to accept a Dooku style robe/cloak (it's actually a cape) as part of a Generic Jedi costume. Yet another example is...Luke's robe in ROTJ and OWK's hood in ANH are expected for those named characters, most judges are going to balk at these character's robe designs being approved for Generic Jedi.

The Jedi Robe for the Generic Jedi needs to conform to those seen worn in the movies (and more predominantly TPM, TCW and ROTS). These robes give the "classic" appearance of the Jedi Robe. The purpose of the Generic Jedi Costume Standards is to have a set of standards that gives the costumer a list of components they need to create a Jedi costume that is readily recognizable as a Jedi costume belonging to the Star Wars universe (and more specifically, the films).

The robe is no different. The three main characters, whose robes depict what is expected for our Generic Jedi, are worn by Obi-wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker and Mace Windu.

Again, I'm posting this because we see a number of robes that are too short, the sleeves are not long enough or the hood is too small...or all of the above. Here's some pictures of my robe, to give another example of what we're looking for in the robes for Generic Jedi. Please don't misunderstand me by thinking that we need all of our robes to look exactly like what is pictured. This is not the case. We ask that our costumers use some common sense about the costume standards and during the design of their costumes. Obviously, slight variations in sleeve length, hood size, whether or not to place shoulder tucks and color are welcome Very Happy






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Mihunai (Jermain Palmen)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this mean the TOR style robes will not be accepted?

I am just guessing that is what this is about...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for this, SithariRog. I had been noticing the same thing, and was hoping it would be addressed by somebody in a more "official" position. And I hope people understand that this is not in any way being unkind to people whose robes are not up to par - think of it as a polite way of addressing quality control. When your robes aren't big or long or good enough, you end up looking cheaper, but when they are rich and full and have all the qualities Roger was talking about, then it adds SO MUCH to your costume! Sure you'll need more fabric and more time and you may need to save up a little more - but the robe is the final touch to a Jedi's ensemble - make it count.

Cool
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SithariRog (Roger Allen)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mihunai wrote:
Does this mean the TOR style robes will not be accepted?

I am just guessing that is what this is about...


I would say that TOR style Jedi robes would be fine for Jedi costumes that are meant to represent TOR. We have some costumers who are already approved with these costumes.

Presently, TOR Jedi robes are acceptable for TOR costumes. These robe have a shorter length and shorter sleeves. But, the TOR robes are not representative of the robes seen in the movies.

I will add that some of the robes that we've "denied" (as a component for formal status) are very nice robes, indded...they're just not representative of the standards or what is seen in the prequel films. By the way, some of these robes are representative of TOR, while some are not (so I'm not picking on TOR, specifically).

And I will further add that the problem with costumes based on TOR is that TOR didn't become as popular a game as was expected and...the interest in doing costumes from TOR has waned...probably to the point that we're not likely to see a bunch of (or even a category for) Rebel Legion approved TOR costumes.




And Thanks, Tag, for your comments Wink
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Last edited by SithariRog (Roger Allen) on Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and I would add one more thing...(I didn't edit my last post becuase this is an important point)...


Some folks think that any costume is okay for Rebel Legion approval as long as it is the same as ANY costume that has been previously approved.

This is really not true. The Costume Standards are always in a state of flux (which they should be) because every administration (including detachment leaders and LCJs) are always wanting to devise (upgrade/clarify) costume standards that are representative of the source from which the costumes come.

In other words, the Costume Standards change from time to time. A costume approved as formal some years ago might not meet the Costume Standards today. But we're not going to inactivate a membership because of this. These quality older costumes are sort of "grandfathered" in the system.

I will also say that, during the recent rejudging for the "old frame" issue, that costumes were rejudged with the standards as they were at the time the costume was originally approved (or this was my understanding and was how I judged as a part of that system). This was a unique event and is not pertinent today.

THIS is, in part, why I encourage folks to constantly review the Costume Standards (of the costume they're making) and to post Work-in-Progress (WIP) threads to help them with their costume development BEFORE they submit for approval.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that also needs to be said here is that in many cases lately, the robe becomes a moot point...

A robe is an optional item when it comes to the generic Jedi costume standards so, in many cases the applicant has enough other optional items to render the robe a non issue...

For example...you have an applicant that has an undertunic, 4 food pellets, two pouches and a robe....

the food pellets, undertunic and pouches become the optional items for the costume and the robe is basically not taken into consideration.
So, if you are seeing skimpy robes in some of the profile photos, don't take it to mean that the judges gave said robe two thumbs up...because we probably didn't...
we just basically eliminated said robe for that applicants optional items.

Also, the new generic Jedi costume standards just went into effect at the beginning of June. Robes are being scrutinzed more thoroughly since those new standards went into effect. I now agree that if robes are not constructed without the proper volume...I will no longer accept them...
again..
if you see a robe that is skimpy and was accepted....look to the other optionals...it might be that we are not even considering the robe. And, to be honest here also, I do have a robe....I have worn my Jedi costume to events well over 100 times...and...I can count the times on one hand where I actually even had the robe with me...usually I leave it home because it is too hot at events for a wool robe...
it does come in handy though for outdoor events done in winter...

Along with Roger's robe...
this is my robe...
it is wool...
BUT not wool Melton..
it is a tropical weight wool...

You can see the oversized sleeves, hood, and the length of the robe...
this is what we mean by proper volume..
note also in the photo of the back that the hood when down goes almost to my waist....






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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I would say that TOR style Jedi robes would be fine for Jedi costumes that are meant to represent TOR. We have some costumers who are already approved with these costumes. "


Question, with the OR and NR Jedi have now merged in the costuming standards ...how does this idea wok for this idea.....


and what is the differnece between and OR robe and a NR robe.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnius wrote:
"I would say that TOR style Jedi robes would be fine for Jedi costumes that are meant to represent TOR. We have some costumers who are already approved with these costumes. "


Question, with the OR and NR Jedi have now merged in the costuming standards ...how does this idea wok for this idea.....


and what is the differnece between and OR robe and a NR robe.


He is talking about the weird looking robes from Star Wars The Old Republic. The MMO that released in December and has now all but died out.
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SithariRog (Roger Allen)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnius wrote:
"I would say that TOR style Jedi robes would be fine for Jedi costumes that are meant to represent TOR. We have some costumers who are already approved with these costumes. "

Question, with the OR and NR Jedi have now merged in the costuming standards ...how does this idea wok for this idea.....

and what is the differnece between and OR robe and a NR robe.


To rephrase what me and Phyllis have said:

TOR robes are fine with TOR costumes (with armor)...that is, those costume that are specifically representing characters from the MMO TOR.

The TOR robe design is not acceptable for Generic Jedi costumes. Why? Because the Generic Jedi are meant to represent the classic Jedi "look" as seen in the films (primarily the prequel films, The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clone and Revenge of the Sith).

As for the differences between OR and NR robes? Well...I'll say two things about that:

First, let me answer this way: let's assume, for a moment, that we only use top level canon (e.g., the films) in answering this question. If so, then there's really no appreciable difference in basic robe design from the films. Both prequel and original trilogy Jedi had hooded robes. The original trilogy robes were less full with small hoods...which are ONLY acceptable if one is doing either Luke or Old Ben costumes (that is, the Luke and Old Ben robe designs are not acceptable for Generic Jedi).

Second...well, not to sound too much like an arse, but...the question is actually mood or...meaningless since there is no longer an OR or NR Jedi for the Rebel Legion...there's just the Generic Jedi...and all of the named characters...and a few TOR costumes for those who have make them (or are intending to make them).

Therefore, the main point to carry home would be: Don't use TOR robes (or any robe design that doesn't meet the current costume standards...which me and Phyllis have spoke about in this thread) for a Generic Jedi Costume...only use the TOR robes for the TOR costumes (as stated earlier).

Hope this helps clarify Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question though, what about the other type of Jedi robes I've seen that are sleevelss? Are those appropriate or merely the one's based off TOR, Anakin, Mace, or Obi-won as you've stated so far?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The standards say;

1. Large Jedi robe or cloak, similar to movie canon robes/cloaks, in allowed color palette, with attached hood.

So are cloaks acceptable instead of robes? I was thinking of submitting a cloak of the following design, however in dark green outer/light green inner for my Corellian Jedi.



The portions look odd because I rotated the picture so the hood was upwards.



Please ignore the costume, as it was for a very early project. It's the cloak design and volume that I'd like your opinions on. Although the green Tabards below are made from the folded cloth that I intend to use as the outer for the Corellian Cloak, come to think of it!



Many thanks,

Fyr
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A robe has sleeves, a cloak doesn't. The Generic Jedi costume standards, as written, allow for either. But they must be full bodied and reach to the floor.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But as the standards also state. The robe is simply one of seven optional items to make the costume Formal. If you have three other items that meet the criteria for a Formal Jedi, the robe isn't even necessary. But I do agree, the robe should represent the film versions...with the exception of species limits like a large headed Generic Jedi needing a hood on the robe. Just looks a little goofy for a hammerhead to actually have a hood.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SithariRog wrote:
A robe has sleeves, a cloak doesn't. The Generic Jedi costume standards, as written, allow for either. But they must be full bodied and reach to the floor.


Thank you, SithariRog. I have had too many heated disputes about the difference between robes, cloaks and capes to not check before making my cloak that someone is not going to say; "You can't have that cape, it has to be a robe. And Cloak is just another way of saying robe..."

Believe me, I've heard similar said before.

Jawa wrote:
But as the standards also state. The robe is simply one of seven optional items to make the costume Formal. If you have three other items that meet the criteria for a Formal Jedi, the robe isn't even necessary. But I do agree, the robe should represent the film versions...with the exception of species limits like a large headed Generic Jedi needing a hood on the robe. Just looks a little goofy for a hammerhead to actually have a hood.


I like to cover my bases. Full inner tunic, cloak, two pouches and food capsules should make for four criteria for formality. That should make things easier for the costume judges. Wink

Thanks again, Fyr
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep...remember Anakin's cloak in ATOC. It was a cloak (no sleeves) and not a robe (with sleeves). The sides were split and his outer tunic sleeves were the same color (or very near) to his hooded and full bodied cloak...giving the appearance that it was a robe...which it wasn't.



...or so I believe Wink
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