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Can Red Guards be RL acceptable
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MothMonty (Greg)
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Can Red Guards be RL acceptable Reply with quote

In my search for a dual purpose costume I thought about the Red Guard. Obviously they are part of the empire in ROTJ but here is their 'job title' from wookie:
"The Red Guard, nicknamed Redrobes, was an elite force of bodyguards trained to protect Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, the head of state of the Galactic Republic Its first members were drawn from the ranks of the Senate Guard. Guardsmen noted for loyalty and efficiency were transferred into the Red Guard; Senate Commandos—regarded as the best and the bravest soldiers of the Senate Guard—were also assimilated into the Chancellor's private security unit.
The Red Guard served as Chancellor Palpatine's protectors before and throughout the Clone Wars, a galaxy-wide civil war between the Galactic Republic and the Confederacy of Independent Systems. After the Republic's transition into the Galactic Empire was completed by the end of the war in 19 BBY, the Red Guard was reorganized into the Imperial Royal Guard by the newly-appointed Emperor Palpatine."


From Star Wars Wiki:
The Royal Guard's origin dated to the turbulent years of the Galactic Republic before the outbreak of the Clone Wars. They came after allegations of corruption within the Senate Guard and after an attempt on Palpatine's life. They were charged with the protection of Supreme Chancellor Palpatine and were noted as being skilled combatants. Some of its members were handpicked from the militant Senate Commandos at the time.[16] During the Battle of Coruscant, the Red Guard attempted to defend Palpatine from Separatist General Grievous but failed and were killed by the cyborg.[17]

So it wasn't until after the purge that they become Imperial guards. Any thoughts?
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were also in Attack of the Clones, so yes, as protectors and bodyguards of the Chancellor, I think they would be admittable to the Rebel Legion. Please keep in mind that the Red Guards costumes in the prequels are different from those in Return of the Jedi.

The ultimate decision of admittance would fall to the Legion Membership Officer and their staff.
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Princess Sandy ()
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion should be moved to the Royalty/Senatorial section, as this would be approved as a senatorial costume, just like the blue senate guards. Smile
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Commander Cody (Jason R.)
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Princess Sandy wrote:
This discussion should be moved to the Royalty/Senatorial section, as this would be approved as a senatorial costume, just like the blue senate guards. Smile


Done.
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MothMonty (Greg)
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jason
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Crimson (Rome O.)
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think the costume is far too similar and too widely known as the ROTJ Imperial Guards, and like the clones are accepted into RL on a technicality, doing so with the Guards would just continue to dilute and blur the lines between "good guys" and "bad guys."

It almost seems like we're just trying to make up ways to add more costumes to our portfolios and essentially munchkining, to borrow a term from RPGs.

This is a personal opinion, and it does not reflect any official stance from the Legion or its subunits or administrative departments, regardless of my position as Webmaster Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same thing could be said for the Jawas, Tuskens, and other neutral parties that we accept into the Rebel Legion.

Crimson wrote:
I personally think the costume is far too similar and too widely known as the ROTJ Imperial Guards, and like the clones are accepted into RL on a technicality [. . .] This is a personal opinion, and it does not reflect any official stance from the Legion or its subunits or administrative departments, regardless of my position as Webmaster Smile


It's my personal opinion that clones prior to Order 66 are considered "good characters" because they're fighting to preserve the Republic, it's ideals, and blah blah blah, but I digress from the main question being raised. Razz
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many costumes that are approved in both legions due to that "technicality", and getting even more technical, if that were the case, then some costumes wouldnt be approved in either legion, if they were neutral parties, neither belonging to the rebellion, the republic, or the galactic empire. Palpatine himself is Rebel Legion approvable as Senator and Chancellor, before he is revealed as being a dark lord of the sith.
Anakin would no longer be approved in the RL either because he eventually becomes Darth Vader. There are certain jedi that start out good and also fall from grace and turn to the darkside in the EU, but they are still approvable here in their good state. Mara Jade and Juno Eclipse and Starkiller all start out bad and then redeem themselves and become good later, thus, making them approvable in both legions. Clones are no different.

So, speaking in technical terms, whatever side people end up on eventually, should be the side that they remain on for approval purposes, your example being clones (starting out "good" and then ending up being "bad" later). If that were the case, then Anakin/Darth Vader would only be a RL approved character, since he started out good and then turned back to the good side before dying, only having a period of time in between as a bad guy, since in the end, he ended up being a good guy killing the emperor and embracing the light side. That sounds ridiculous doesnt it? Not to have Darth Vader as a 501st costume, just because he was good before and after he was "Darth Vader"?

If we did not allow dual legion membership costumes, there would be a vortex of non-approvable costumes across the board. Wink

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I am in no way, shape or form trying to discredit or bash anyone for what they believe is right. We are all entitled to our opinions, it is what makes us free thinkers and unique. Smile

The above statements are my stance and opinion on this argument, and I hope that they are taken into consideration when a final decision is reached regarding this potential costume addition to the RL, as well as, any future potential costume additions that may come to light as time goes on. leia vader
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MothMonty (Greg)
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all of you so far have made very good points.
Yes to some of us the Imperial Guard in synonymous with ROTJ, that's when we first saw them and that's how they will be remembered. However, they started out as special guards for the Chancellor unlike the Senate Guards who were guards for the whole senate. They probably had more screen time in AOTC than in ROTJ. So really we see they more on screen when serving the Republic than the Empire. I don't really view that as a technicality I view it more as that is how it was in the star wars universe. The AOTC guard served the republic, just like the clones did. With the clones wars animated series so focused on how dedicated the clones were to the republic and the jedi, there isn't really a grey area for them either. (sadly destroying the world Karen Traviss created)
As Princess Sandy said, the costume (no matter if they 'fell' or were 'redeemed' ) needs to represent when they were 'good'. Now, the general public generally won't see the difference but we will and that it is important.
The Vader argument is difficult and I slot it in with the Luke and Solo in TK disguise area. If we go down that road the topic will be derailed really quickly.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL correct. The only reason why i brought up the whole Anakin/Vader situation, was to prove a point about a character being good and bad at different times, thus allowing them to be able to be approved in both legions. Smile
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MothMonty (Greg)
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you on the anakin I always forget that he was dubbed Darth Vader even before the Iconic Black Suit. Which kind of proves the method of thinking, or paradigm as it were, we as OT series fans have. We saw Vader first as the black clad figure not the dude with the mullet, which is in fact untrue. I agree that ROTS anakin is and should be a member of the RL
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rule of thumb for both of these clubs has always been "how were the characters portrayed?" When the Clones drop down into the arena to save the Jedi, accompanied by the pulse-pounding heroic action music of John Williams, it's pretty clear they are "good guys" as far as the film is concerned. Same when they save Obi-Wan's bacon in Episode 3 on the sink hole planet. Then Anakin turns bad, Order 66 is issued, etc.

The EU always seems to muddle things up, though. There is always that one EU author that wants to make everyone's favorite bad guy be a good guy for once, or vice versa.

I wasn't aware that Royal Guards were recruited from the senate guard/commandos. I remember when Episode II first came out the visual dictionary claimed that the guards origins and training were a secret. I guess that has been retconned.

Ah well, I don't really like the idea of Royal Guard costumes being another duel membership costume, but alas if Lucasfilm says they are the Space Secret Service then I guess that's that.

I wouldn't make it official, though. Wait until somebody submits it.

It would just be easier of this was all one big club and we didn't have to deal with this. But a dumb guy with a girls name once said "If wishes were fishes we'd all be eating steak!"
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Rome and I'm leaning toward the No side. Just because we can doesn't mean we should. Wink
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MothMonty (Greg)
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right Matt in regards to the Imperial Royal Guards they were recruited and trained in secret on Yincorr.
Like I said this is difficult costume to discern because of how it was originally depicted but I don't think it's so much a question of just because we can, I think it's more along the lines of, if they were part of the Republic than they were part of the republic and thus should be considered for RL status.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my feeling is : if there is a reference then it should be good that has been pretty much the way things have run ....

So things may be a technicality , but if an argument can be made with visual proof then it should hold..
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