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Fringe Standards; Possible Revisions?
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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Doug wrote:
so there is no excuse not to have a film-quality costume. I believe it's a question of taking pride in your costuming. The fun comes from replicating a character IMHO.


Repainted toy blaster? Should be banned, right? Wink

Not only such stuff looks wrong, light equipment has not the needed weight to make the carrying person move accurate as if he has to handle real equipment. You "move" different with some heavy stuff on your hips, on your back, or in your hand.

Heavy and exhausting on longer troops? Sure, itīs a little bit more uncomfortable, but that has to be accepted to be believable. Each soldier worldwide does the same every day under much more inconveniant circumstances.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug... I wish it was that simple.

I have been brought on charges more than 1 time because I tried to heavy hand the standards. I fought for 2 years to help get the standards to where they are. I am NOT happy with where we are with the standards, but it is a fair compromise considering the amount of people we have overseas who do not have the abilty to the materials that we have here in the states... or even in Canada.

It took me along time to accept that change comes slowly... but it does come eventually.

For kicks and giggles... here are what the standards use to be when I joined, I think we have come a long way!

...........................................................................

Han Solo Costume Standards

Han Solo (Episode IV: A New Hope)
Required Items:
1. Black vest with back ribbing, as well as back and front pockets
2. White or light yellow shirt with open collar
3. Blue, pocket-less pants with red Corellian blood-stripes
4. Tall, black boots
5. Accurate leather belt/holster with tools and droid caller


Formal Requirements:
1.DL-44 blaster (A New Hope version), unless local laws prohibit or strongly discourage carrying anything that looks like a firearm.

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BobaFuss (Doug Cottrell)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am working on a Death Star Escape Han, and as has been mentioned, I would hope the standards on that can be adjusted to not include the leather gun belt, holster and blaster, since he is not wearing those in the film, but rather the accurate TK belt, holster, and blaster.
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Havok69 ()
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lichtbringer wrote:
Repainted toy blaster? Should be banned, right? Wink


That is one thing I think the judges need to be a little tougher on. Accurate resin copies should be ok for those weight\cost conscious people, toys not. I think formal status should be the holy grail if you will, and require the most amount of effort. Perhaps we should introduce a third standard to elevate formal status further - good, better, best?

I don't really think we should be considering cost\access to parts a reason for standards. We have mail and the Internet to acquire whatever is necessary.
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havok69 wrote:
Lichtbringer wrote:
Repainted toy blaster? Should be banned, right? Wink


That is one thing I think the judges need to be a little tougher on. Accurate resin copies should be ok for those weight\cost conscious people, toys not. I think formal status should be the holy grail if you will, and require the most amount of effort. Perhaps we should introduce a third standard to elevate formal status further - good, better, best?


Based on Club Charter -> there is only one "formal" status Smile

Havok69 wrote:
I don't really think we should be considering cost\access to parts a reason for standards. We have mail and the Internet to acquire whatever is necessary.


From mine point of view -> it is good if in some way this is considered ...

ps: for example -> if somebody will propose to use only screen accurate original german black riding military boots ... it will not be so big problem for somebody from Europe ... but I think, for US, Asia, etc. ... it could be big problem to get some originals /even for big price ... and this is only one example ...

I think ... that is important to see points not only from one side ... but look on it from huge amount of angle ...
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Havok69 ()
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blair wrote:
Based on Club Charter -> there is only one "formal" status Smile


Yes, I know this. What I was attempting to say is that perhaps we have three ratings: Informal, Semi-Formal(?), Formal to further elevate the formal, harder to obtain status and allow the lower standards to admit people with less than accurate props, etc.
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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blair wrote:
ps: for example -> if somebody will propose to use only screen accurate original german black riding military boots ... it will not be so big problem for somebody from Europe ... but I think, for US, Asia, etc. ... it could be big problem to get some originals /even for big price ... and this is only one example ...

I think ... that is important to see points not only from one side ... but look on it from huge amount of angle ...


With the same argument someone could argue to not beeing able to use the correct clothes, cause itīs hard for him to sew, to find the right pattern or fabric.

You donīt imagine how hard it is to find the correct M19 for Solos blaster, or M38 for a Stormtrooper E-11 here in Germany. They were offered in ebay USA (not cheap, always several hundred $, but they are there), a ebay search finds them, but as you try to look at them - a red notice from Ebay that you are searching for a probably prohibited article (due to beeing listed as a WWII collectables), and they apologize if they are wrong, please buy something else. Same for Solos ANH Wetzlar-scopes, but they can be listed and bought without problems via Ebay Germany.

So what? Itīs harder to find, thatīs the excuse? I have these scopes, a miracle? No, i just tried it harder to find them, bought parts from other people in the community, had friends in the countries buying and sending them to me. I only have one M19 for my ESB-Hoth, yet, but i will search on and one day i have the other two needed M19 for my ESB-Bespin and my ESB-Luke.

Sometimes itīs harder to find some stuff if you are not in the origin country, but itīs doable, it just takes more time (or money for int. shipping), and more patience, and more dedication. Due to internet, paypal, and int. shipping everything is doable.

The formal status should only be given to really accurate costumes.


The basic question is more "why is worldwide a formal costume needed to be a full member, even if there are not the official Lucas Events as in the USA?" Atm. someone like me in Germany would be forced to build a easy costume as cheap as the rules allow, displaying a character that doesnīt fit my physical appearance - get my pics done (maybe even shaved and with proper hair), and then i can go to the barber to cut my hair back to its usual buzzcut, let the beard grow again, store my formal costume in the deepest dungeon in my basement after my approval - and you would never know. And then i have the informal costume according to my beard and haircut. Noone would complain, right. In short: wasted time and money, better spend on making the other (informal) costume in a way that suits a galaxy far far away.

There is whole starwarsy galaxy, with uncountable numbers of planets, and with each Movie, TV-show, comic, book, there is more to make it "live".

Stormtroopers, or aliens, are much easier - you donīt have to handle the difference between real live appearance and SW character appearance. You put on your outer "shell", and automaticly you are more or less (to a certain degree) SW. Wink

I like the idea with different levels - not to weak the standards, they should be high. But with useable standards to the various "groups", not everyone in that Galaxy is a face-charakter or a heroic soldier/trooper/rebel. For a colorfull galaxy there are more various groups needed, more water-farmers, more Coruscant-citizens, more average Joes from Dantooine, Lorrd, Rālla, Bonadan, ......

That part is neglected to much, in my opinion. There is so much more what can be made. But please, with standards to keep the fairieīs out. Wink Mr. Green


Itīs hard to explain my point, as iīm obvisiously no native english speaker (writer). No idea if itīs understandable in the way i meant it.
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havok69 wrote:
Blair wrote:
Based on Club Charter -> there is only one "formal" status Smile


Yes, I know this. What I was attempting to say is that perhaps we have three ratings: Informal, Semi-Formal(?), Formal to further elevate the formal, harder to obtain status and allow the lower standards to admit people with less than accurate props, etc.


Just info about informal status ... this status was never supposed to be status for "non accurate-non completed or low level" costumes ... it was supposed to be status for accurate costumes with 1 or 2 separate sources ... Smile
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lichtbringer wrote:
...


I don't see it as same argument ... I am talking about certain limits ...


.... yes ... I agree, that Kenner/Hasbro toy blasters could be banned ...

BUT

... for somebody will be resin blaster not enough ... he will say:

"We need it more accurate!" ... so request Denix replica? ... or original Mauser? ... etc. - where is STOP? Smile

In the end it is only about limits ... for somebody are limits current standards ... for somebody not ... somebody see issue in blaster - somebody in belt - somebody in hairs - somebody in tools - somebody in fabric, etc. Wink
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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blair wrote:
... for somebody will be resin blaster not enough ... he will say:

"We need it more accurate!" ... so request Denix replica? ... or original Mauser? ... etc. - where is STOP? Smile


Au contraire, mon ami. Very Happy

Resin should be always doable, cause there are countries that donīt allow anything looking/feeling as a real gun. But also resin should be accurate.

Basically screen accuracy is more than the material, in the first itīs a question of having the correct shape and details to LOOK right - as the stuff we have SEEN on screen. Having the right material is the next step, and using the correct original parts is the final step. And above that is only screenused. Wink

BUT - to have the right shape you need to use the correct parts as a master.

As a example, the Solo blasters:

ALL softair guns are wrong, completly. They ALL base on a different pistol with just the same basic shape as a C96 Mauser, they base on the Mauser 712, a much later model. Using it would be like reenacting a civil war cavalerist and using a Colt SAA Peacemaker instead of a Colt Dragoon Revolver.

The Denix is not the best replica of a C96, but itīs the right model and easily availble. The same is valid for casts of it.

The perfect choice would be a MGC Replica, but they are a little bit pricey, can easily run around 250 to 350$ - but they were used for many of the screenused blasters (to be more precise, all were build from that, except the few build on real Mausers, and some rubber stunts). So i see nothing wrong with a resin copy of a MGC, itīs accurate.

Off course a metal one is (in real life) much cooler, as you donīt look at it only like in the movies, you can handle it, feel it. And if no real MGC can be obtained, a Denix is valid, too. Iīm all in for real metal ones, atm i have 5 MGCs (ANH-Hero, ANH-GK, ESB-Hoth, ROTJ-V1 and one for a coming ROTJ-Stembridge), and i need some more for the still missing DL-44s and MerrSonn.

But nonetheless a good made resin blaster from the correct parts is more accurate than one build from "looks somehow like"-parts on a softair, be it metal or not. Cause the correct parts will look correct, as on screen.

All that is doable, each scope is available in resin, too. So that is no excuse to use a ugly toy. Itīs all down to research and going a extra mile - instead of taking shortcuts.

I could go that way over each detail, for hours Mr. Green



Blair wrote:

In the end it is only about limits ... for somebody are limits current standards ... for somebody not ... somebody see issue in blaster - somebody in belt - somebody in hairs - somebody in tools - somebody in fabric, etc. Wink


Correct - you could put 2 mannequins with Solo costumes in front of me, and if not one has massive (really massive) inaccuracies i couldnīt say whatīs right. Laughing

For me SW is blasters, equipment, and spaceships. The rest is some actors in clothes. The same story could be filmed with swords and other medieval/fantasy equipment - the only real difference is in the technical toys.

But if i would do a movie seen costume i know i would search for the details of this clothes things, if they exist (on a screenused one, comic and so on is a different story) - no matter that iīm not really that interested in such details. And i would do my level best to have everything accurate.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lichtbringer wrote:
...


With "resin blaster" in mine example I just mean some resin resin DL-44 which is available for public (for example from DoopyDoos ... ) ... Wink ...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand everyones zeal for accurate costumes. I strive to make the most accurate costume I can. As the standards state, 'accurate what ever blaster, weapon or prop' .

UNLESS prohibited by area laws.

So, the standards as they are written now may not be the most precise to everyone's taste, but there has to be a cut off to keep it the appearance of movie accurate and also still be reasonable for the average person to attain to.

I believe we have a good balance and think we need to be careful adding more and more restrictions to people being able to become members and have movie accurate costumes.

Remember, this is a costuming CLUB. We sometimes forget the purpose of this club and take things to such an extreme it is funny to me sometimes.

And I do not agree at all with levels of formal. It is either formal or informal.
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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blair wrote:

With "resin blaster" in mine example I just mean some resin resin DL-44 which is available for public (for example from DoopyDoos ... ) ... Wink ...


And exactly the doopyddoos stuff is on the good bright side of the force. Wink

A few seconds ago i was back on their side to have a close look - they cast from a Denix, and the most details are good also. Their ANH has a bullbarrel, something most costumers miss/forget/cant do.

I found some minor inaccuracies, only - as a wrong scribed shape under the magplate (but they refitted one, Denix forget it ), A softcontoured looking grill on the ANH, a slighly wrong scopemount knob on the ESB - and some even more tiny things only a freak would recognize. If you are really for this small details, bondo and sand the wrong scribe and do it better, a sharper grill can be cheap obtained from CE, some Bondo and sanding/scribing can fix the ESB knob - things you are already doing when building a resin-kit.

Also their Stormtrooper E-11 MK3 and their DLT-19 (better than on their pics) are top. And also their Boba Fett EE-3 looks sweet.

Not beeing made from metal is the only sad thing, but for resin they are a gift for the more interested than the toy wielder. Good accurate stuff, just communikation can be a pain, sometimes. (Thatīs what iīve heard from some, others never had problems).
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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikkos Khann wrote:


I think that point of view is funny, bud in a somehow sad way.

Insisting in keeping things separated in "formal/informal", but with such weak standards for formal is ......... "weird".

"You can have as much (maybe very good made) informal as you want, after you get approved with a cheesy formal, but within the funny weak rules."

Thatīs a joke on itīs own, donīt you think? Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael.

Formal has always been watered down as far as standards go, and always will as long as formal is a requirement for membership into the RL.

The ongoing argument over the years (an argument I have tried to fight, and lost everytime) is that we should should change membership requirments to informal instead of formal. That way way the focus on harder standards to obtain formal could be enforced. The way things are right now, that is unfortunatly something we cannot do. We must maintain a balace as Conley said so we can maintain membership numbers.

If for some reason a day comes where informal will get you membership... I will be one of the first ones to propose a higher standard for Formal.

For now the key is balance.

Bob
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