About Us Members Unit Listing Events Costuming Resources Forum Contact Us Trading Cards
 

Forum and Costume Controls

   FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  medals.php?sid=6163e0e2be9ff178f6be0b06926d831aMedals   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in

       
REMINDER: Do not change your e-mail address yourself. Please read this first for why.

Fringe Standards; Possible Revisions?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Fringe Archive
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Hurricane Sandy Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No standards can be changed till after the re-judging is done. Once the re-judging is done there will be a few changes I am sure.
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BobaFuss (Doug Cottrell)
Canadian Base CO
Canadian Base CO


Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 816

Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to suggest another change since Han is a face character. No facial hair, and proper Han Solo style hair or wig. This would be in line with the standards for Leia.
_________________

Rebel Legion Canadian Base C.O.
501st Legion Canadian Garrison G.M.L.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JediMasterMark (Mark Jones)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 1908
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Medals: 1 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Doug wrote:
I would like to suggest another change since Han is a face character. No facial hair, and proper Han Solo style hair or wig. This would be in line with the standards for Leia.


Agreed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hair color has been an issue for many years, and we have had many debates over it.

How do you suggest we handle and African American? Do we put him in a wig with the correct hairstyle? That would look just as silly as if we put anyone else in a cheap wig... very few people can pull that look off with a wig.

I am sorry I do not see Hans hair as being as Iconic to the character as leias hair buns... the buns being a key style to get the Leia look. To compare their hair requirements is missing the boat of importance when it comes to the "costume". If it's the whole package and not just the costume... then what are we to do about our members who are overweight? I weigh more than Harrison Ford ever did, and I am sure at times people consider me the "Fat" Han. Is that the next step we are reaching for? There are so many things in the standards we should try to achieve first before we focus on things like Wigs for Han.


There is no consistency in our standards… and Hans are rare enough as it is.

Obi-Wan… no hair standards
http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8876

Anakin… no hair standards
http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8970

Luke… has hairstyle required
http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8874



What makes Han an Iconic character....
Holster, boots, and blaster... the rest is gravy. With the standards all over the place over the years I do not understand how we could possible feel that Han in a wig will improve our image at events. It will only cheapen the image unless serious cash is dropped on a wig.

From my experience most Han costumers are unable or unwilling to buy a good enough wig to make them look anything other than silly.

I think you guys will do more harm than good if you go down this path.


Bob
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BobaFuss (Doug Cottrell)
Canadian Base CO
Canadian Base CO


Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 816

Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Costuming in the Legions is not an inexpensive hobby. I put together a Legion approved Boba Fett last year, so know from experience how expensive costumes are. I also recognize that when you go the extra distance in your costuming and sell the costume - in your mannerism, and in your appearance - then the magic happens. At CV, I saw some great looking Han costumes, but unfortunately when the guy has a buzz-cut or a beard, the illusion is lost, and he's just a dude in a Han Solo costume. Yes, nice wigs are not cheap. Our ROTJ Luke in the Canadian Base spent $200 on his wig, but when he puts it on, he disappears and becomes Luke Skywalker. The Leia costumers don't get accepted as Formal with cheap-looking wigs or hairpieces, and all I am suggesting is that the male costumers step up their game too - especially when it comes to the heroes.
_________________

Rebel Legion Canadian Base C.O.
501st Legion Canadian Garrison G.M.L.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Hurricane Sandy Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish more costumers could take it to the next level... but over the years I have seen how cheap some of the costumers are... there are little to no Hans in the Fringe that will spend 200+ for a good han wig. Not to mention in some parts of the world its not a viable possibility.

I have Hans who contact me all the time telling me they have a hard time getting material as it is. We need to remember not all our members are going to be able to go down to the wig store and drop 200$... which by the way, is still on the low side for a good wig.

Han costume costs are not like pilots or other costumes.

There is only 1 vendor known who makes a good holster... 450$
Good blaster... 75$-400$ easy.
Good boots... 200-500$ easy

Thats not including a good costume and you looking already at a potential 1500$ costume! I am sorry... but a wig should not be part of the standards for Han knowing what goes into the costume. I get so many comments as it is with people saying our standards are too hard, adding a manditory wig isnt going to fly very well. I can understand the no facial hair however.

I think our priorities should go towards correct bloodstrips being manditory before we start adding wigs.

Bob
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Lichtbringer ()



Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 218
Location: Germany
Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Doug wrote:
Costuming in the Legions is not an inexpensive hobby. I put together a Legion approved Boba Fett last year, so know from experience how expensive costumes are. I also recognize that when you go the extra distance in your costuming and sell the costume - in your mannerism, and in your appearance - then the magic happens. At CV, I saw some great looking Han costumes, but unfortunately when the guy has a buzz-cut or a beard, the illusion is lost, and he's just a dude in a Han Solo costume. Yes, nice wigs are not cheap. Our ROTJ Luke in the Canadian Base spent $200 on his wig, but when he puts it on, he disappears and becomes Luke Skywalker. The Leia costumers don't get accepted as Formal with cheap-looking wigs or hairpieces, and all I am suggesting is that the male costumers step up their game too - especially when it comes to the heroes.


While i´m generally with you - Bob has made a valid point. "Where to stop"?

For me there is no illusion if the haircolor is wrong, or if the person has the wrong weight, ........

That´s one of the reasons i don´t costume - i could met the legions but not my own standards. I wouldn´t shave my beard or grew my hair (and not even for the pics, later you can´t control it), nor is there a chance i will become again that skinny as in my younger years.

For me the "hardware" is a very important part too, and I´m pretty sure i could graduate maybe 90% (or more) of the RL used blasters and stuff as you did it with hair and beard. You might think that´s important, i think it´s important to have the proper equipment. I think it´s much more important than the costumes fabric, seams, stripes, collars, pockets or not, ..... cause that was the stuff that catched MY attention in 77, the cool "hardware".

But under the line we cannot decide every detail for everyone from our own point of view, people have different views, and different pockets (cashvise) - so "Where to stop"?

For example: Most of my blasters outrun Bobs given 400$ easily (most of the time they do that already at "halftime"), i could "live" with cheaper ones for trooping, but they would still be around his 400 range due to the cost of accurate parts. I wouldn´t even know where to start if i would have to build a accurate one around 75$.

But i can´t expect from everyone else to see it my way.
_________________
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.

Have a nice day,
Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Havok69 ()
Active Legion Member


Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 380

Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to agree up to a point about the hair; perhaps just no buzz cuts or facial hair, but I certainly think wigs are going too far. Guys and wigs for the most part don't mix. It's like the Shatner toupee - you can tell it's a wig almost always, and that in my mind ruins the look more than anything.

Like Bob says - get the bloodstripes right, along with a good gunbelt rig (costume base stuff should be an automatic informal), real boots (those cheap vinyl costume boots just don't work) and good fitted clothes. Even is someone is a bit on the husky side, if they have clothes that are tailored well, it does wonders for the look.

Oh, and of course, add dark brown as an option for the pants belt...

Mr. Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theeviltwin ()
Legion Costume Judge
Legion Costume Judge


Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 357

Medals: 1 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Doug wrote:
...the illusion is lost, and he's just a dude in a Han Solo costume.


I think that pretty much sums it up!

The cost debate will go on but I didn't think it applies to the controls. Surely the control bar should be set to the level where that detail has achieved the illusion?

Han Solo costumes are expensive (in time if you make it yourself, or in money if you buy it) to do well. That won't change. It is a luxury hobby. I can't afford a racing car but that doesn't mean they should lower the NASCAR racing requirements to meet my budget.

The consistency of other costume requirements is also not a reason for determining what we do. Two wrongs do not make a right. The Fringe controls need to be chosen because they correct in their own right.

There's a big difference between wearing a correct costume and costuming in a correct costume. So do we have costume controls or costuming controls?

So what does that mean for a physical requirement control? That's a tough one to answer. Whether there is a requirement or not, the questions every Han costumer needs to ask themselves (and be happy with the answer to) is can I pull off the illusion required for the event (in appearance and attitude), or will I just look like a guy in a Han costume? Does that serve the event host / sponsor and the public with the satisfactory "product" they expect and deserve? And how does that make the costumers you are costuming with feel?

That's one of the differences between wearing a costume, and costuming.

Greg.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lichtbringer ()



Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 218
Location: Germany
Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theeviltwin wrote:
That's one of the differences between wearing a costume, and costuming.

Greg.


I beg your pardon, but .....

I found a lot of nice looking costumes here to look at, but ALL have been "wearing a costume" for me, i´ve never had the illusion "THAT´s Han or Luke or Red 3 or the Rebel trooper guy from the Tantives corridor".

No matter if cheap or expensive (and i prefer accurate, as Bob does) - it always looked like a average person is having fun in wearing a costume. And i see nothing wrong with that, there is no chance for anyone to really look like the real actors. It´s kind of these Elvis-immitators, some are better than others, but none looks like the king.
_________________
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.

Have a nice day,
Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theeviltwin ()
Legion Costume Judge
Legion Costume Judge


Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 357

Medals: 1 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lichtbringer wrote:
theeviltwin wrote:
That's one of the differences between wearing a costume, and costuming.

Greg.


I beg your pardon, but .....

I found a lot of nice looking costumes here to look at, but ALL have been "wearing a costume" for me, i´ve never had the illusion "THAT´s Han or Luke or Red 3 or the Rebel trooper guy from the Tantives corridor".

No matter if cheap or expensive (and i prefer accurate, as Bob does) - it always looked like a average person is having fun in wearing a costume. And i see nothing wrong with that, there is no chance for anyone to really look like the real actors. It´s kind of these Elvis-immitators, some are better than others, but none looks like the king.


You are right, it's extremely unlikely that you will look exactly like the actor or convince people you are really the character.

But there are circumstances where there can be suspension of disbelief. And there is a point where an appearance can be close enough that it doesn't matter.

The less you resemble the character in any way (costume detail, physical appearance or behaviour), the harder it will be for the public to suspend disbelief, and the less likely that the differences won't matter.

It does vary from event to event and who you are costuming for e.g. younger children are more likely to suspend disbelief, while older fans will understand that you can only do so much with your appearance and will be happy if you are close enough.

Different events can have different responsibilities, and different fans have different expectations. Yes it is about us regular people having fun in costumes, but we do have a responsibility to give the public and the event sponsors a quality service where they get to have as much fun as is reasonably possible to have too.

Sorry this has gone a bit far from the original requirement topic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tag Aldeggon ()
Active Legion Member


Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 659
Location: Provo, UT
Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No matter how you standardize an outfit, people will still see what they want to see. For many having a buzzcut or blond hair won't detract from a good Han costume, while for others even Harrison Ford himself isn't good enough. While I have always believed in casting to look the part, we can't dictate too much or it loses the fun. And if people don't feel you look the part, what can you do? After all, Elvis entered an Elvis look-alike contest - and he didn't win!

You're going to find that many of the looks we cling to, depend greatly on our own point of view.
_________________
"Training to become a Jedi is not an easy challenge ...

... and even if you succeed, it's a hard life."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theeviltwin ()
Legion Costume Judge
Legion Costume Judge


Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 357

Medals: 1 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last points for today - sorry don't often get the chance to post regularly so I have to take advantage of it when I can.

I've posed a load of questions but not many of my actual opinions so I think I should make it clear where I stand:

I don't think there should be set requirements such as height, hair, general build.

But I do think they should be recommended in the optional items section like "scruffy-looking facial hair / beard" is in the NJO requirements.

Outside of the costume requirements, whether you are happy to costume as Han (or any other specific character) is down to your own conscience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion on where we are in the standards and in priority:

Boots... in standards... we have done well on boots.
Blaster... in standards, hardly enforced...
Holster... in standards, but a bit weak.. legion full of bad holsters
Vest.... in standards, many bad vests approved over the years, getting better though!
pants... in standards, but weak and not enforced well over the years
shirt... in standards, but weak, and not enforced well over the years
tools/ harware... hard to judge, but over all ok.
gloves... optional
Scruffy look ( hair ) think if you look up, you can see there are more important things...

Keep in mind this is not a jab to our LCJ's, over the years we have made many improvements (plus I was one of those LCJ's Laughing ).I bring this list to be viewed to show that we have a few more important things to work on before issues like hair should be worked on. If we were to remove all costumes that did not have the right blaster, improper bloodstripe, incorrect shirt or vest... we would eliminate aver half of our formal Hans. Not to mention if we ruled out improper fitted costumes, or cheap fabrics.

My point is we have a ton more to worry about than wigs...


Bob
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BobaFuss (Doug Cottrell)
Canadian Base CO
Canadian Base CO


Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 816

Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:
My point is we have a ton more to worry about than wigs...


Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but can't all of the standards be overhauled at once? Boots, vests, blood stripes, holsters, etc.

The same controversy happened in the pilots forum when someone dared to suggest that flak vests were not up to snuff last year. The reality is we have more access now to information than years ago, and there are more vendors and very talented RL members, so there is no excuse not to have a film-quality costume. I believe it's a question of taking pride in your costuming. The fun comes from replicating a character IMHO.
_________________

Rebel Legion Canadian Base C.O.
501st Legion Canadian Garrison G.M.L.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Fringe Archive All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can post calendar events in this forum
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans. While not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred volunteer Rebel costuming group. Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2014 Lucasfilm Ltd. & ™ All rights reserved. Used under authorization.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group