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B-Wing Pilot : 10.1.12 FINISHED (pg.4)
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lines on the original mold may have been a little bit wider, allowing the plastic to sink into them, which I think would probably make them a little thinner when it cools. I mean, plastic would be going into the panel lines, which would make them a little thicker there... I think, anyway, unless I'm just thinking about it all wrong...

I'm just wondering is all. Like I said, I know next to nothing about vacuum forming and when I move onto trying to vacuum form mine (the Nein/Ten style chestbox) I'm hoping I'll be able to find someone from the Kashyyyk Base or Cloud City Garrison who can help me.
I just wonder if I'll need to make my panel lines the slightest bit wider to make up for the thickness of the plastic.

When I whip up the next version of my B-Wing helmet and try to vacuum form that... that'll be a different matter entirely. ><;;
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Scorlord (David Young)



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well since I'm making a B-Wing costume for a wedding in the summer, I drew up a 3d CAD model using your pictures. I'm a Mando Merc so I'll probably use sintra, but here's what I got.



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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks pretty good to me. Though the socket for the hose shouldn't be coming out like that, it should just be a hole. It'd be kind of hard to get the hose in there otherwise... Smile

Also, at the very bottom of the chestbox there are a couple edges that seem to stop abruptly. I think that they should probably be followed all the way down the bottom of the box.
It's kind of hard to explain...
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Scorlord (David Young)



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Socket was put in according to the image on the first page. But it can be moved.
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mm, true... I never really thought of that being a "socket", I just assumed it was part of the cloth cover. Maybe not.
I suppose it could go either way, really.
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Purple Dagger (Sean Phillips)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I am to the point of getting plaster and concrete (hydrocal) or alike to make a harder, heat proof, vacuumable form. However I read some where that the chest box has been measured at about 9" x 9". I think this came about from auction photos or a post related, can't find it now. Mine is slightly larger (10"x11") and I would like to make it as accurate as possible. I have time to rework the original before the plastics get here (sat. or mon.) I was just thinking did anyone else see this post? Should I rework it?

Once I get a good idea of how the pulls can be done I will air bake some greebles and resin them, paint it up and get it posted. Still have some work to do.
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The information was right here, but it's no longer available for some reason. I guess that page was taken down.
And yeah, it said that the chestbox was 9x9. You could resize the thing if you wanted, but honestly I don't think that it will matter. My chestbox is about 10.5x10.5 and I don't think it makes much of a difference. Really, who's going to notice?

There are a couple things I noticed with your chestbox that you might want to change, though. You don't have to, it's up to you, but I thought that I would point them out anyway.

-The two corners I circled in red seem to end quite abruptly. These should probably be continued all the way down, so there's no noticeable edge where they end.
-And the part circled in blue perhaps should be down just a little bit deeper. Not a lot, but looking at the reference pictures there is a noticeable difference in thickness there.
-The very tops of your chestbox on either side should probably be a little taller. The right side of the chestbox should be taller than the rest of it.
-And lastly, the part I circled in yellow... It doesn't look like there are enough panel lines there. Judging by the picture below, anyway, it looks like there are three panels (one black between two white), with panel lining on every side. If it helps, I can post a picture of a chestbox I made for a game I'm working on, and I tried to simulate those panels on the chestbox.
Again, it's your choice what you want to do with it. But I just thought I'd point them out.


If you'd like, here's a picture of my current chestbox. It's not the same style as the one you're doing, but it may help. Sometimes it helps to see a "real" prop that someone has made. There are a couple things I didn't get correctly, but I don't think it's too bad for my first try...
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/Gankutsuou_2006/Blue%20Leader/Costume%20Projects/bwingChestbox_July30-2010_Front2.jpg
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Purple Dagger (Sean Phillips)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you got back to me quick Blue. This is the photo I kind of keep going back to, other then the first post image I had.
RED circle: Mine goes all the way down. That was the CAD drawing done, not my model exactly, just based on my model and the photo I had pictured.
BLUE circle: Yeah when I rescale the model that side is getting hacked off and I will make it a touch deeper. I figure there is a rocker toggle in the low area and it shouldn't stick above the surface.
YELLOW circle: In the different images I was on a coin flip with the step downs. Some I see it, other angles I didn't. The image above was the one that made me say no steps down, only a single. Plus the raw vacuum image I have on file didn't show it on the original pull, maybe added later though.

I want to say the auction post said "approximately 9x9" so I think I will shot for 9.5x9.5 or so. Originally 10x11, shouldn't be to hard to scale back.

Back to workin on it, wish me luck.
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Last edited by Purple Dagger (Sean Phillips) on Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True enough. Though with the angle of that picture it's hard to tell much of anything about the chestbox.
Not to mention that are about three or four versions of the chestbox (just like the helmet, which has around five versions), each with different greeblies and panel lines on them. Talk about confusing.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HUGE UPDATE: Its been some time so here goes top to bottom...


Cloth helmet. Start on X-wing style helmet.


Front on flak vest. Back of flak vest. Flak vest laying together.


Hose close up. Hose at length.


Arm tools/Belt flares/Compad. Gloves.


Gaiters (version 1 not sure if I like them).


Boots.


Chest box (version 2, resized from brown version).


Chest box in mold box.


Original in rubber, walls of box removed.


Original after rubber removed minor damage.


Rubber mold. Rubber mold in box awaiting cement.


Mold with wet cement. Mold with dry cement.


Two views of the cement version.


Vacuum table setup.


Table with plastic being vacuumed. First pull after heat gun trial.

Next up a second cement mold.
Changes :
1.) Adding 22gauge floral wire into the cement to make air holes in the areas of more detail. I ran a test and can get them pulled out before the cement gets to hard and they still stay open for air flow.
2.) I will be adding height to the mold, 2 inches roughly, to help with corner webbing issue.
3.) Depending on the height change pull I will be making the mold a 3 piece mold (left,right, and center trench). The trench will be a vacuumed reverse, so the piece can be added to hide the gap. Similar to the top of an X-wing helmet.

Cement was ultracal30, plastic was 1/32 (.0313) High Impact Styrene. I have already ordered some .06 High Impact Styrene to play with the next go around.

Thoughts? Ideas? Observations?
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Last edited by Purple Dagger (Sean Phillips) on Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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paleosilex (Robert Nelson)
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! I would mention a couple of things....

Are you going to keep the knob at the top flat? Try a AMC/Dodge/Ford Dust Cap #13975. Works perfect.

The lines on the box are wonderful! Mr. Green

What are you going to use for the greeblies?

I like the gators, look really sharp.

What is the slinky for with the hose?

Boots look good.

You used concrete, any problems with it? I was told by a buddy to use plaster.

What color are you thinking of painting it?

All in all awesome!

Here is my chestbox. I wish I had the beautiful original you do!


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paleosilex (Robert Nelson) Q&A
Quote:
Are you going to keep the knob at the top flat? Try a AMC/Dodge/Ford Dust Cap #13975. Works perfect.

Maybe not as curved at that cap. Mr Gasket 2485 and 2486 look nice. I have one image that almost makes it look like a large version of a gallon milk jug pop on cap. I am leaning toward a slightly domed knob though. Ruling out the pop top look as a shadowing play on the part.

Quote:
What are you going to use for the greeblies?

Custom sculpts using sculpty oven bake clay. Then rubber mold for resin castings. Unless I can get what I need from a local computer repair place out of the junk bin and mold those. Its almost easier to make it honestly. That way it is to scale and all. I'll get an image with some arrows pointing at the areas and some ideas later. I am waiting to get a solid pull before the scaled scultping work starts.

Quote:
What is the slinky for with the hose?

Girlfriend came up with the dollar bin Slinky Jr. idea for keeping the hose puffed out and light weight. Works great. Everyone loves a slinky!

Quote:
You used concrete, any problems with it? I was told by a buddy to use plaster.

I used ultracal30, cement yes but more like plaster. 38/100 weight mix water to ultracal30. 6,000PSI dry, lowest expansion of gypsum cements, low odor (none I noticed), low health risk, >85% plaster of paris/<10%portland cement/<5% crystalline silica, 25-30 work time(and it gets solid then),dry time 18-24+hours. Worked great for my needs.

Quote:
What color are you thinking of painting it?

White paint if it doesn't polish up nice without. Standard film version, going for the briefing room ROTJ look.
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The chestbox looks very nice so far. I wish I could do something that looked that nice. Any chance you might be interested in selling a vacuum formed one once you've got it down?
By the way, what are the dimensions of your chestbox?
I only have one suggestion about your chestbox. On the left side (when facing it, in the image, right side when wearing it), the part that goes up on the side, it should be up higher. That part should reach higher than the rest of the chestbox and should be the highest point of it.
You can look at Robert's image above for what I'm talking about. The left portion of his chestbox goes up a little higher. Perhaps just add around an inch to it, and than move that panel line up? Just a suggestion.

The white cap thingy at the top of the chestbox can be either round or flat. There are pictures with both styles, though the flat seems to be more common.

When painting it, remember that the chestbox is two-tone. A lot of people don't notice that, but if you look closely at the pictures you can tell that the chestbox is indeed two different colors. Both the silver chestboxes and the off-white or silver-white chestboxes are like this.
It looks like the chestbox may have been split into two pieces, a front piece and a back piece. The back piece is painted a slightly darker shade than the front, which is lighter. Also, the darker paint line isn't exactly in the middle, it's a little closer to the front piece, so it's not exactly split in half.
It's hard to explain. If you desire I can try to show you with some images when I'm on my main computer.

Also, there's a "B" decal on the top of the chestbox, which is another thing most people miss. I'm not sure if there's any more to that decal but from all the reference pictures I've seen there's a "B" decal on the very top of the chestbox. I modified the "B" on my chestbox to make it look a little different, so it didn't look exactly like an English B, but it still looks like the one on the reference chestboxes.

And a comment on your flak vest... The color looks good but the shape of it is way too square. You might want to round the edges a bit. And narrow in the tab as well, which shouldn't be a box shape, but should be more angled... Like this... \_/

Edit:
Here's a picture of what I'm talking about with the two-tone and the "B" decal. Granted this is my own chestbox but, well, I'm not on my main computer right now so this is all I have. Heh.
One thing is, though, the dark gray on mine isn't exactly even. I had a hard time making it really straight. And I probably should have brought the gray up a little bit more, maybe. Ah well, I'll do better next time...
And though it's fuzzy you can see the "B" decal as well.

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Last edited by Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch) on Wed May 11, 2011 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimension:


Yes the idea of trading goods for goods, once I get a good kit together down the road. And Republic credits would do fine, and help me get onto my next sculpt.

Do you have any film images/photos of the two tone or the B you had mentioned? I have nothing solid, only what I guess I over looked as shadow play before. I like the two tone idea. The B on top was, and I am guessing, not suppose to get caught on film or was there for the prop crew to tell the difference? B actors get those? who knows.

The flak vest is a little box like. I went for more the fit feel of it. You know the "does this flak vest make me look fat?" idea. When I tighten it up it wraps some. I will have to round the lower corners some, is that what you ment? Like a 2-3inch arc curve?

Good catch on the point. I'll have to see what I can do when I put the strap on it. Doing all my own sewing, and I am learning as I go. Maybe working on 4+ costumes at once is a little much for beginners.

Thanks for the feed back, keep it coming! Very Happy
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Last edited by Purple Dagger (Sean Phillips) on Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:17 am; edited 2 times in total
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the "B" decal to be honest. I just see them on every reference picture of the chestbox. Pre-production Ten Numb has it, the B-wing pilots in Rebel Assault II have them... I don't know about the ones that were actually used in the movie itself, it's impossible to tell, but I've seen them everywhere else.

As for the two-tone colors you can kind of see them in the mash of pictures above (the same as the first picture below), but it's easiest to tell on the pre-production Ten Numb as it's a dead-on side shot.
Also, in the first image below, the image on the right (with the red coveralls), you can tell it there, too. The front of the chestbox is white while the sides look to be gray. Same with the red coveralls B-wing pilot on the bottom left, and the pilot with the orange coveralls (though the latter isn't so easy to tell).
You can also see that all of them have the "B" decal, too, if you look at the very top...



In my previous post I also edited it to mention something about your chestbox that I forgot to mention yesterday. It's not a big issue but would help to make it more accurate.
The left side of it (right side when you're wearing it) should go up a little bit higher. This should be the highest point of the chestbox. I'm not talking about the side where the white cap thingy goes, I'm talking about the other side where there's the horizontal panel line near the top and the diagonal panel line going down from it.
Perhaps just add around and inch to it and move that horizontal panel line up a little bit?
It's not a big issue and could be ignored. I just thought that I'd mention it. Would help your chestbox look even more accurate. Smile
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