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RFT wearing... field caps!
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Wolf 825 ()



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm not a full member yet, but as I'm working on an RFT, I feel I should contribute.
As I see it, the fact that the cap is shown in the movie should end any debate about canon. Also, while the caps shown in each of the three sources cited are somewhat different, those sources do agree on the permissible use and general style of RFT field caps. Besides, I rather doubt that RFT's woulld really wear their helmets all the time, especially on long voyages, ect...
Therefore, I think the cap should be an optional item. Also, it's not like you would only bring the cap to an event, leaving the helmet. I would assume that any RFT would always have his trusty helmet on hand. However, the cap would be nice in a lot of situations when trooping at events. Just my take.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here are my questions, from reading the thread (which I apologize, I should have done in the first place rather than starting on page 5...) and taking Michael and Blair's perspectives into deeper account:

1. The cap color - should only be the color we see in the movie? If truly 'canon', then that would be the only approved color.

2. From the previous posts, are you truly wishing to add this as an optional item, or a replacement for the helmet? I'm not interested in 'cheapest costume possible', even if it turns out to be Smile I'm more concerned at this point with accuracy. Again, like I said before, maybe a totally new standard for RFT 'non combat attire' or something like that.

3. Style - this is prime late 1970s vintage, much as we see other parts in the SW (original) saga. What sort of availability are you talking about?
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Tag Aldeggon ()
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the two best options would be

1. Create a whole new category, such as "Alliance Support Personnel" or "Troop Support Officer" or something to that effect. This would maintain the integrity of the Rebel Fleet Trooper as a distinct costume, while also formally recognizing the cap-costume (as it is in the films, it has to be canon).

2. Amend the RFT standards by making the cap an optional item, while maintaining that all costumers MUST possess the helmet, but allowing them to wear the cap if they also have the helmet on their person. Or something like that, lol.

I know neither of these is a perfect solution, but then, neither one is very difficult either. Since it's in the film, it's canon (I assume). To keep the purists happy, you can be as specific as you like as to how the cap should look, its color, etc., but somehow it seems the thing has got to be acknowledged. Besides, it adds some nice variety to the ranks. The Rebel Alliance is largely defined by it's accumulation of various items and looks. When it comes to uniformity we're not the 501st; we should embrace this nice little anomaly. If it's good enough for the films, it's good enough for us. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the costume is seen on screen, mixed in with the RFTs, making it another costume doesn't really make sense. I would say this should be adopted as a canon option to the helmet. if the costume is exactly like the standard RFT (boots, shirt, vest, gunbelt, holster and blaster) then it makes no sense to have 2 seperate costumes just to allow 2 versions of the headgear. (to compair to modern military, that's like sayign wearing a field Uniform with a Helmet would be a different uniform then wearing a boonie hat, or a patrol cap. No matter what the headgear, it's the same uniform.

To replicate the Canon hat (to make this a formal costume) you need to replicate the cap EXACTLY like the ones seen on screen. Since this is the same cap worn by the honor guard, we do have references to recreate the cap. Plus the chance that whis was some sort of surplus item (like the honor guard uniform) makes it possible to get an example to plicate as well.

As for being difficult to find, Imperial Officers and crew have had to have caps custom made since the very beginning. we don't have to find the old caps, we have to find someone able to replicate one (probably the same people making the Imperial Caps)

I know I'm no longer a member, nor will I be, but I am still one of the people who helped create this group. I also helped add the 3 Source rule for EU costumes to the Charter. That rule or guideline was NEVER intended for a screen used costume. The intention then (and I'd hope now) is Anything George put up on screen is automatically Canon and formal as long as it is accurately represented. (accurate being defined by the standards agreed upon by the legion as a whole.

Now again, this is my opinion and just mine.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my dos credits. The cap, while a great idea, should remain informal. The helmet is what gives the RFT his/her identity. They are the first rebels seen on screen and they basically introduce the audience to Star Wars and the Rebellion. in it's own way it is iconic. i know that is what led me to do this costume in the first place. The inexpensiveness of it was also a factor, but the main thing stuck with me from when I was young was these unnamed guys with funky helmets basically got their arses kicked and died defending what they believed in. I don't think that well known role should be downgraded in such a manner and still call it formal for two to three seconds of screen time and people that don't want to buy a bucket or wear it for few hours at an event.

Separating capped RFT's from Helmeted RFT's is not the answer. Again, my opinion. But if you want to go that route, call them "Alliance Support Personnel" as Tag suggested, group them together with the Yavin and Hoth Techs and make a new detachment.

And mind you, while we are not the 501st, we are still a costuming group and costuming groups have standards and requirements that set them apart so that their organization looks good and stands out.
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Tag Aldeggon ()
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with much that has been said. We have standards that need to be clear. Yet again, they can also be changed or expanded. The costume was on screen; thus, it IS a canon costume. We can't get around that. Its existence in no way demeans the Rebel Fleet Trooper (if it is possible to demean a fictional organization Rolling Eyes ), but it does pose the dilemma of how to incorporate it into the Legion. But I don't think you can't make it informal any more than you can make Ice Cream Maker Man or a Yavin Tech Engineer informal. A screen appearance is Formal. Boom. There you go.

Yes, it might be a very easy costume, but the nature of its simplicity does not negate its validity. Besides, there are far easier costumes in Star Wars. Its existence is not an insult to the Rebel Fleet Trooper, it's simply another costume. You can't change that. Bu,t you can add it! Give it a new name, its own set of standards, and there you go!

If anything, having a new, easy costume will encourage new members to join the legion, and from there you can bet a lot of them will want to move on to bigger and better things. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that I am getting a bit lost as to what the proposal for the caps is...
so maybe it would be an idea for Mike to copy and paste the RFT standards into a post and then modify them as he feels they should read (including hat color and construction details) and his reasons.

I will do the same and then lock the thread to give those who need to look at the information the time to do so and make a decision.
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Okami Dai ()
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, still no member of RAID, but working on it! RFT WIP...

Thats a hot topic, uiuiui...

My humble opinion on this:
When Mr. Mollo designed the costumes he had his experiences from "real world soldiers" in mind.
A real soldier wears his every day duty uniform and "upgrades" this uniform for certain occasions or if ordered (as someone already stated above).
So I would call those guys wearing the caps the "standard Rebel soldier" or "RFT on low level duty" (sorry, don´t know the correct army terms).
He is not at guard, maybe he just had his lunch break or his shift is just over...
Thats the way I used to work in the armed forces nearly every day.

And for special duty you have to "upgrade": Take your gun belt, put on your bucket, maybe take some special equipment (e.g. pike, range finder) to get ready for action.
Thats the RFT "ready for battle" or "at guards".

My way would be to differ between "low duty RFT" (now gunbelt, no helmet) and "ready to battle" RFT with belt and helmet and special equipment just as it is in the standards.

And yes, this could be a very cheap entry to the RL, but why not? If I compare it with 501st Technician its on the same level, and there are not only technicians in 501st, right?
As mentioned above, my RFT is in progress, and of course I could save some money when not needing to buy the helmet. But I decided to make a RFT defending the Tantive IV, so my direction is clear....

One last word about "recognizability": My first costume is an A-wing pilot, a lot of work, not too expensive but affordable for me, and....
NOBODY KNOWS IT!
Even Star Wars fans have to ask: Is this the guy crashing into the bridge...?
I think that more people would recognize a low duty, cap wearing RFT, as the uniform itself is recognisable, with or without bucket!
Give it it´s own standards and make 2 RFT´s.

BTW, in ANH one RFT is seen without helmet, "bare headed", running behind 3PO in the Tantive IV. Could this be also "canon".... Evil or Very Mad

Sorry for wasting your time,
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I didn't imagine so many new posts would appear while I was asleep. Very Happy

JediMasterMark wrote:
1. The cap color - should only be the color we see in the movie? If truly 'canon', then that would be the only approved color.

Yes, I imagine the light olive/tan color seen in the movies is above other options and thus the desired one.

JediMasterMark wrote:
2. From the previous posts, are you truly wishing to add this as an optional item, or a replacement for the helmet? I'm not interested in 'cheapest costume possible', even if it turns out to be Smile I'm more concerned at this point with accuracy. Again, like I said before, maybe a totally new standard for RFT 'non combat attire' or something like that.

IMO it should be added as one of the items required for RFT to be formal. I will post my take on the RFT standards below.

JediMasterMark wrote:
3. Style - this is prime late 1970s vintage, much as we see other parts in the SW (original) saga. What sort of availability are you talking about?

That'd have to be researched, but as IC-6369 said, it isn't impossible for those caps to be replicated by gifted soft prop makers, just like Imperial officer hats are. They are worn by 2 or 3 different types of characters so I imagine they could be popular.

I am leaning more and more towards the idea of separating this costume from the RFT, but I still agree with the point that it's the same character, just different headgear. I'm also not opposed to making this new RFT the cheapest/easiest costume in the RL. So I guess this is the way I'd see it added:

Required Items:

1. Accurate Fleet Trooper helmet OR accurate ANH soft cap


(The rest stays unaltered.)

Okami, I've just analyzed the Tantive IV scenes on Bluray thoroughly frame by frame and haven't found any helmetless RFTs except for two or three who were dead or dying. Razz However I've found that the helmets had some kind of bright yellow padding and the pants pockets were filled with a strange thing which I cannot identify, but is visible when one of the RFT dies and it drops out of his pocket lol. I can post the screengrabs later.

I can also make a number of screengrabs that could help identify the cap, its exact shape, color, etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShVagYeR wrote:

I can also make a number of screengrabs that could help identify the cap, its exact shape, color, etc.


That would be extremely helpful...

we need to know color and construction...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch out, picture-heavy post incoming. Smile (click images for full res)




























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Wolf 825 ()



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that rather than having the cap be an alternative to the helmet, the cap should be in the 'Optional Items' section, alongside the pike and holster.

As for the proposed standards alteration:
(Required Items:

1. Accurate Fleet Trooper helmet OR accurate ANH soft cap
)

Honestly, I don't like the idea of RFT's going without helmets. The helmet should remain a required item, the cap should become optional.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem with requiring the helmet and allowing the cap as an option is:


1. You can only wear 1 at a time

2. This automatically makes a screne seen costume informal


How can a canon costume (this is still a higher ranking then formal right?) be informal? It contradicts the intent of classifying the costumes. I am amused thinking a costume only seen in 3 seperate comic arcs will be more "formal" then a canon costume.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the sticky point. Really, the question is: how should the legion categorize this automatically formal costume?

1. As a unique costume, apart from and not categorized with the Rebel Fleet Trooper?

or

2. As a variation of the Rebel Fleet Trooper, extending or altering the standards of an existing costume?

I feel that option 1 is the best and easiest choice. But you shouldn't under any circumstance make it informal. It's in the film = canon. That's undeniable; really, nobody can argue that.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some further analysis of the cap:



It seems to be a regular baseball cap w/o the little 'spot' on top (or whatever you call it) or the holes on the sides. The non-standard addition is the part in the back that you can fold down (similar but smaller than in hoth caps).


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