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Snowspeeder Pilot Discussion
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Snowspeeder Pilot Discussion Reply with quote

I have been wrapping my head around this project and like with the Hoth project I encourage and invite a lot of sets of eyes to this. My eyes are not very good anymore and don't always pick out all of the details needed from the grainy and fuzzy screen captures that we usually work with.

So ....the purpose of this thread is for all interested parties and even those not interesed in making this costume to chime in on what they see...
and comment on what I think I see....

I would like to begin with what we already know...

The RL Costume Standard for Snowspeeder Pilot:

Snowspeeder pilot (Episode V)

Required Items:


Orange flightsuit conforming to the standards for the X-Wing pilot (Episode IV, VI)

Orange flight jacket with padded collar and ribbed strips down both arms.

Grey Hoth-style boots with strapping or mid-calf black boots (If using the black boots, jack boots or engineer boots are acceptable. No lace up boots. High-calf boots are acceptable with sufficient blousing of the flighsuit legs.)

Silver/grey leg flares in an olive drab or black leg-band holder.

Light grey/silver grey ejection harness and web belt, all 2” wide.

Accurate white flak vest with ribbing

Accurately sized grey chest box with grey hose or aviation hose and accurate decoration (buttons, rocker switches, pin stripes etc.)

White and grey gauntlet-style gloves


Formal Requirements:
You must have at least one of the following items to be accepted:

X-Wing helmet with Star Wars-style decoration.

White or grey balaclava or tan, cloth-covered, ANH-15 style helmet, no brim

Comm pad on left gauntlet above wrist


Costume Resources:
Echo Base X-Wing Pilot Tutorial
Obi-Wan's Jedi Academy X-Wing Pilot Tutorial
Richie's Armor X-Wing Helmet Tutorial
Parts of Star Wars Luke X-Wing Pilot page
Parts of Star Wars X-Wing Pilot page


JACKET:
Darth Lars has posted an absolutely AWESOME tutorial on the Jacket here:

http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19591


The Jacket appears to be made of orange nylon...finding an appropriate orange may be a challenge. I have won an auction on E-bay for an orange nylon (5 yards at 60" wide) and will see what it looks like when I get it. May or may not be suitable.

Joanne Fabrics does have the Sport Nylon in orange...you can see it on-line here (but again-fabric does not render true color on line) which is probably not suitable....but would work if one could find nothing else:

http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?pageName=search&flag=true&PRODID=prd13084

Another possible fabric: which orange? Blaze or Spice?

http://www.rockywoods.com/Fabrics-Hardware-Patterns-Kits/Supplex-Nylon-Fabric/Supplex-Nylon-Fabrics

BALACLAVA/UNDERHELMET:
Parts of the discussion that Crix, Jim, Rachel Orange and I have had on the under helmet/balaclava.

Screen captures:





It is possible that the under helmet/balaclava was sewn from the same basic pattern of not only the ANH 15 but also a WWII Deck hat that I used as a basis for making a Hoth Tech costume.

As per Darth Lars:
"I disagree. I think that it is obvious that it was based on a British helmet pattern. Take a look at this page, where you can see the WW2 RAF flying helmet "Type D". RAF "Type C" and "Type E" were also made from very similiar patterns. (only the Type D had the bill in the back of the neck)"

The Hoth Tech hat that I made:
Eliminate the hat bill and neck flap and shorten the sides....
pad the ears between fabric layers in the shape of an earcap...







AHN-15:




Color of the balaclava:
Always the wild card....
The costume standard reads white or gray...
but does not define the intensity of the gray...

As Per Darth Lars:
"The standards are wrong. It is tan."



Where the first screen capture does not show detail very well from its front view...I believe there to be a seam down the middle of the top in order to get the shape...
you can't even see the one side seam very well from that front view untill you look at the side view in screen capture #2...though they are so much in the background that other detail is lost.

The fastening process under the chin is also not clearly defined...
there does appear to be a black chin strap, a possible piece of leather on the subjects right (left in the first photo) and some metal ring on the subjects left (right in the photo).
The under helmet/balaclava in the screen capture/photo above does not appear to be tied under the chin...
Luke's, again, may have been different from the rank and file....I don't know


Boots:

Rachel, Crix, Jim and I discussed this also...
Where it is clear from screen captures that the Hoth Trench Soldiers did have "coverings" over regular black boots...
it appears that Luke's boots were either custom made or I think I read at one time that they were based on a commercially available boot of the 70's. Maybe due to cost...the only ones that got the true boot Luke appears to be wearing might have been a few of the "hero" costumes.

OK...

your thoughts?
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Last edited by Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte) on Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:01 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Darth Lars
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Snowspeeder Pilot Discussion Reply with quote

Schph Gochi wrote:
It is obvious that the liner/balaclava was sewn from the same basic pattern of not only the ANH 15 but also a WWII Deck hat that I used as a basis for making a Hoth Tech costume.

I disagree. I think that it is obvious that it was based on a British helmet pattern. Take a look at this page, where you can see the WW2 RAF flying helmet "Type D". RAF "Type C" and "Type E" were also made from very similiar patterns. (only the Type D had the bill in the back of the neck)
The "balaclava" had an edge trim, which is unlike any of the RAF helmets (or the AN-H-15). The same edge trim is seen on Rebel hats in the movie.

Schph Gochi wrote:
The costume standard reads white or gray...
but does not define the intensity of the gray...

The standards are wrong. It is tan.

Schph Gochi wrote:
The fastening process under the chin is also not clearly defined...

It is just a strap, tied together. You can see the loops in many photos of Luke.
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WedgeAntilles (James Norman)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Snowspeeder Pilot Discussion Reply with quote

Darth Lars wrote:
Schph Gochi wrote:
It is obvious that the liner/balaclava was sewn from the same basic pattern of not only the ANH 15 but also a WWII Deck hat that I used as a basis for making a Hoth Tech costume.

I disagree. I think that it is obvious that it was based on a British helmet pattern. Take a look at this page, where you can see the WW2 RAF flying helmet "Type D". RAF "Type C" and "Type E" were also made from very similiar patterns. (only the Type D had the bill in the back of the neck)
The "balaclava" had an edge trim, which is unlike any of the RAF helmets (or the AN-H-15). The same edge trim is seen on Rebel hats in the movie.

Doesn't matter what its based on if its not that item, and to be honest I don't think its similar enough to even warrant it as an example past the curiosity of its lineage. Plus that helmet is almost exactly the same basic pattern as the ANH-15 when you strip the hardware from it.

Schph Gochi wrote:
The costume standard reads white or gray...
but does not define the intensity of the gray...

The standards are wrong. It is tan.[/quote]
I agree its a beige/tan not gray although if you look at the screencaps of the briefing they do seem to be a similar color to the white flack vests so I can see where the confusion would lie especially with ESB's notorious color problems, especially in Hoth scenes.

Schph Gochi wrote:
The fastening process under the chin is also not clearly defined...

It is just a strap, tied together. You can see the loops in many photos of Luke.[/quote]
I disagree, but I'll have to go check through my hd copy and check for that, if you've got screen shots, that would be productive to the discussion.

Also Phyllis here are my HD ESB Wedge screengrabs. Particularly the snow shot which does show him with mucklucks, whether real or covered I couldn't tell you.


and the rest here: http://istartfires.net/pilots/site/wedgeESB.html

Something else that needs to be fixed with the standards... belt flares need to be added to the formal requirements list, the pilots do have the same belts as they do in the other films.
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Last edited by WedgeAntilles (James Norman) on Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
Nar Shaddaa Base XO
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Joined: 18 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Snowspeeder Pilot Discussion Reply with quote

Darth Lars wrote:

I disagree. I think that it is obvious that it was based on a British helmet pattern. Take a look at this page, where you can see the WW2 RAF flying helmet "Type D". RAF "Type C" and "Type E" were also made from very similiar patterns. (only the Type D had the bill in the back of the neck)
The "balaclava" had an edge trim, which is unlike any of the RAF helmets (or the AN-H-15). The same edge trim is seen on Rebel hats in the movie.

Schph Gochi wrote:
The costume standard reads white or gray...
but does not define the intensity of the gray...

The standards are wrong. It is tan.

Schph Gochi wrote:
The fastening process under the chin is also not clearly defined...

It is just a strap, tied together. You can see the loops in many photos of Luke.


Well...
we are off to a good start...
and the entire point of this discussion...
to see what is out there....
what people know....

You are quite right...
those British helmets do look VERY accurate...

and interesting that the Standards on color of the Balaclava are not stated correctly...
just for the record...
where did you find that the balaclavas were tan?

I am only trying to be crystal clear on this as there have been so many discussions of gray/tan/white/off white...
I am sure you understand..

Very Happy
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WedgeAntilles (James Norman)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Snowspeeder Pilot Discussion Reply with quote

Schph Gochi wrote:

and interesting that the Standards on color of the Balaclava are not stated correctly...
just for the record...
where did you find that the balaclavas were tan?

I am only trying to be crystal clear on this as there have been so many discussions of gray/tan/white/off white...
I am sure you understand..

Very Happy


tbh they LOOK tan to me in the film.
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James Norman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is balaclava is now used as the official term for the "Under Helmet", which I've been using (in my e-mail exchanges with Darth Lars - Johan)?

Here is a picture of the RAF Type E Helmet :



shape is accurate(?) but the mesh material is not.


Here is another RAF Type E Helmet :



- with the wiring.


EDIT : I have saved and uploaded the same pictures into my Photobucket account as I can see that the original site does not allow their pics to be hotlinked.
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Sandpeople in the Rebel Legion Malaysian Outpost, and Snowspeeder Pilot in the making.

Also known as DZ (and TK/TS/TD) 2870
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501st MALAYSIA-BRUNEI OUTPOST


Last edited by The "Tusken Emperor () on Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WedgeAntilles (James Norman)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "Tusken Emperor wrote:
Is balaclava is now used as the official term for the "Under Helmet", which I've been using (in my e-mail exchanges with Johan)?

Here is a picture of the RAF Type E Helmet :



shape is accurate(?) but the mesh material is not.


I like under helmet better than balaclava, since its more hat/helmet than a balaclava is. But as far as I'm aware there is no official term so call it what you want.

Also I wouldn't call that helmet's shape accurate, I'd call it similar since its fairly obvious that its not the same helmet used for the under helmet even though they look a lot alike.
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The "Tusken Emperor ()



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iam8114 wrote:
I like under helmet better than balaclava, since its more hat/helmet than a balaclava is. But as far as I'm aware there is no official term so call it what you want.


LOL! To be frank I wear a balaclava underneath my Sandtrooper Helmet. It is something that looks like a black knitted ski mask that you wear for mountain climbing.
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Sandpeople in the Rebel Legion Malaysian Outpost, and Snowspeeder Pilot in the making.

Also known as DZ (and TK/TS/TD) 2870
Outpost Founding Member and CO Emeritus of the :
501st MALAYSIA-BRUNEI OUTPOST
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WedgeAntilles (James Norman)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "Tusken Emperor wrote:
iam8114 wrote:
I like under helmet better than balaclava, since its more hat/helmet than a balaclava is. But as far as I'm aware there is no official term so call it what you want.


LOL! To be frank I wear a balaclava underneath my Sandtrooper Helmet. It is something that looks like a black knitted ski mask that you wear for mountain climbing.


exactly, that's why I don't think the term applies, lots of 501st wear them too.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a thought to add a few other reference images I've seen around lately:

Stole this from Gil's photobucket (click to enlarge):


I know its not a clear picture of the underhelmet, but whatchagunnado? (I'll see if I can manage a clearer screen grab but I doubt it.)

And here, from the Official Pix new black and white collection, is a rare back view of the underhelmet which shows more of the pattern.



I know its tiny, but that's the best I can do right now. I'm going to buy this and a couple other photos from them to hopefully assist with the research. I do think it does show that its a similar pattern to the RAF
helmets though so that'll throw the idea that they're modified versions of the hat you have phyllis, but there's still a lot of similarity there too.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phyllis do you have a rear shot of that hat of yours?
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iam8114 wrote:
Phyllis do you have a rear shot of that hat of yours?


as a matter of fact I do..

Very Happy


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Mieal Deneb (Rachel Orange)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOl, this is great! I've been wanting to discuss the snowspeeder pilot costume for a long time. Thanks Phyllis!
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WedgeAntilles (James Norman)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, my eyes are killing me from researching, I still need to fight with getting a few more screen grabs to back up my findings, but...

Lars' claim of Luke's tied underhelmet strap is partially accurate, it shows up in some shots, but not others and no other pilot shows evidence of it, do what you want with that information but I'd chalk that up to wardrobe malfunction.

Actually there's a quick glimpse of luke getting out of the snow speeder that I can't seem to get a screen grab of where you can pretty much see the entire strap and it looks to me like its a single strap with no fastener, maybe elastic but I'm no fabric expert by any means.

I'm also leaning more towards the idea that the underhelmets are based off of the RAF and ANH type helmets but I also stand by my assertion that they are not either helmets.

I do think that your hat pattern could rather easily be modified and do the costume piece justice. If the proper fabric can be figured out.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fabric....lol..
always the wild card...

I actually was working on a prototype of the under helmet yesterday....
I was working with a gray mist bottomweight twill fabric....almost too "hefty" as when I inserted foam ear cup bulges...the bulge was not evident enough because the heavier fabric kinda smoothed over the bulge.

But, such is the case when approaching something new...you have to try and fail a couple times usually. I also think the next one will have to be made slightly larger...though having a tighter fit does force that ear bulge out..

I was also doing some skull busting on the jacket fabric. One has to try to think in terms of the 1970's and what "engineered" fabric was available at the time. Gore-Tex was around in the 1970's but VERY EXPENSIVE at the time....so I doubt that jackets were made from that.

In the first link I added a possible jacket fabric...but to be honest...it is a more "new" engineered fabric...
I am only guessing here...but I would guess that the jacket fabric was something very common in the 1970's....so a plain old windbreaker fabric does make a lot of sense...
question is...with all of the "new" fabrics....it might be difficult to find plain old windbreaker fabric....
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