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How do I submit a droid for approval?
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Voort saBinring (Jon Stokes)



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:46 pm    Post subject: How do I submit a droid for approval? Reply with quote

So how is this going to work?

Do I send pictures? Where?

Is someone working up a submission process?
What are the standards for an acceptable R2-D2?
Who will set these standards?
Will there be differing standards for 'one off' droids like R7's which are not seen in any of the films but only in books?

Is there a panel of 'droid judges'?
Have any 'name' droid builders stepped up to chair such a panel?
How would one apply for that position?

I'd assume that the minimum for an approved droid would be motion, sound and lights, but what is the minimum for motion?
For example would 'dome rotation only' be acceptable? There have been a few events (C4 among them) where a static droid was relegated to use as a photo prop.

Would an eliptical dome be a requirement or can one get away with a half sphere? If not which of the 3 known eliptical dome profiles are acceptable?

What about all the blinky lights? Many Bothans died in the Yahoo group Fiber Optics vs. LEDs wars (now long over) LEDs won, but the screen used R2 from ANH did use fiber.

Is the Front Logic matrix 5X8 or 5X9?
Is the Rear Logic matrix 4X27 or 4X28?

There are several providers of these parts, with different matrices and input voltage considerations.

What about radio control? AM, FM, 2.4GHz?
What about the wireless control systems including Bluetooth and the soon promised iPhone control systems, as well as others which all require onboard computers running everything from XP to Linux to the latest Mac O/S?

What if a droid has trouble getting over a door threshold, or isn't good on cobble stones? (few are)

The wide variation in constrution methods used by droid builders is bound to result in standards where a light duty drive system is approved for a droid styrene droid with a light wooden frame which weighs under 100 lbs., but that same drive system might be completely ineffective in moving a heavy weight steel legged and aluminum framed droid loaded up with all the 'pop out' gadgets that could easily tip the scales in excess of 200lbs.

What about the specifications of other details such as color? The various droid builders groups offer builders great leeway in materials and methods. It's hard to get 2 builders to agree on which shade of white looks right, (or is that a 'tint') and there are at least 3 known formulas for 'R2 Blue'.

Would the droid owner/builder be required to state which R2-D2 they are building as there were about 12 R2-D2's (yes just R2) made for the first movie alone. (Other R-unit droids were these same 12 bodes repainted) Painting a droid to be some other color and then repainting it back to be R2 again on location meant sometimes things weren't done the same way twice. In the moives R2's dome panels visibly change from shot to shot often within a given scene.

Just like the differing stormtrooper helmets (Hero vs. Stunt, ANH vs. Jedi etc) each of the original screen used R2's had its own quirks and tells that are pretty obvious when pointed out and well known to most well studied builders. For ESB a bunch of new fiberglass R2 bodies were constructed. For the prequels, ILM made one R2 out of carbon fiber.

Best example is when R2 gets shot by the Jawas. Filming the scene required the use of an R/C controlled droid, the 3-2-3 droid that could extend it's center leg (film played in reverse) a Kenny Baker suit, and then to a difernt static two legged droid (not a Kenny Baker suit) before R2 falls over and the jawas carry him off.

Visible changes can be seen in the painting of some R2's dome panels as the film cuts from him standing, to a different 'stunt droid' falling, and then back again, when the jawas pick him up.

Throughout the first a half of the film, one panel on R2 seems to repeatedly change from blue to silver and back.

My point being with R2 himself being so inconsistent shot to shot as a movie prop, it will be hard to lock down an absolute standard for one correct R2. What details have to be dead on accutrate and what can be 'fudged' a bit would nessecitate the implementation of 'detailed guidelines', rather than rigid costume standards. Guidelines which can be somewhat flexible so that each droid submitted for consideration be subjected to a fair bit of critical analysis, by knowledable persons, so all of its systems and features are known to be reliable and that the operator is capable. This could possibly include video of the thing in action, if judges are not able to meet the droid for first hand examination.


Last edited by Voort saBinring (Jon Stokes) on Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are currently not accepting R2 units into membership. It's still being discussed as what the rules will be for doing so. Once that decision has been made, we'll make a post about it here.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood, so who is doing the discussing?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I have any more secret knowledge than you, but I would guess it is the Legion Council with input from the LMO and Costume Judges. As far as your questions on the rules, I would suggest looking at current guidelines. For example to do a Face Jedi, there is specific requirements, but they don't dictate the Pantone shade of the robe. Similiarly I wouldn't expect a specific Blue recipe to be required on the R2, just that the color look "correct".

As you mentioned the droid builder groups have allowed a lot of leeway, I expect there will be something similiar if Rebel Legion were to allow Droids.

So let me ask this, does the R2 builder's group have a set of requirements for a droid to be included in an official function (say C4 level)?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, what Don said.

There are several issues regarding whether or not since R2 units aren't really costumes, should they be allowed in at all or should the owner have a costume already and this would be like an additional costume or should stationary droids be allowed a well and all sorts of other fun discussion points.

With it being election time I don't see this discussion resolving in the next two weeks, but if there are a couple folks who would like to volunteer once elections are over to participate in the discussion I'd say let Ed know at the beginning of October.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to throw in my 4 cents; (inflation you know)

From discussion on the R2 Builders forum, it has become quite clear that many of the R2 builders do not want R2 units to be accepted as members of any costuming group. They feel as if it takes something away from the R2 Builders club and they want the club to remain an entirely separate entity with the same consideration/respect that the other clubs get. I can understand this to an extent, however, the R2 Builders Club is not structured the same way as the costuming groups and each R2 Builder acts as his or her own representative, not a rep of the Builders club. The only time members become a representative of the R2 BC is at cons and such where the club members join together to do an exhibit or droid building panel, ect...

There are no droid build requirements for members to participate in events such as the Celebrations. When it comes to LFL events, senior members and those who have finished R2's that are primarily all machined aluminum or at least look accurate are the ones most often contacted to participate in such events.

I personally think it would be advantagious if R2 units could be given some sort of "Official" recognition within the costuming clubs. Even if only accepted as a "Special member" of some sort. (I would be happy with an RL badge of some sort and to be able to officially sign up for events on the local base forum.)

Having a Formal recognition for R2 units would make things easier for any event promoters and contacts. In that they would not have to deal with multiple groups or individuals during the planning and goings on of such events. It would also make things easier on the R2 builders that wish to participate in such events.

As far as requirements placed on an R2 unit to gain such recognition, I think such rules would mainly focus on the exterior of the droid. Mechanics of the droid should not be an issue as long as it's operation is relatively safe, and will not pose a hazzard or danger to others around it.

I would think that any droid replica that has been seen onscreen and is readily recognisable (including R2-D2, R5-D4, R2-X2, R4-M9, ect...)
should be given equal consideration as long as the droid is visibly complete, in that there are no visbly missing parts (unless as seen in the movie that way) and that a certain percentage of the droid looks fairly accurate. I don't think differing minute details should cause a droid to be excluded from acceptance.

As far as custom paint schemes on a droid, I would think that those would also be accepted as long as they do not look too "earthy" and do not contain images that are not family friendly. (This is the basic rule that currently applies to X-wing pilot helmets.)

In reality, the majority of R2 Builders Club members simply buy most of their droid parts from the club parts suppliers and then assemble them. You are not going to get that much variation between droids as far as external physical appearance. At CIV there were many droids sitting next to each other, all built out of various materials including wood, plastics, and metal, yet they all looked basically the same in appearance.
It should not be difficult to accept most droids built by R2 BC members.

For someone who gets on the web and buys a droid from an internet vendor that sells poor quality items, that may be another story.

If a distinction of R2's is needed for say an Official LFL event where only the best is wanted, You could list R2-D2's under different classifications. One that is assembled out of all machined aluminum club parts could be a "Class 1" R2.
An R2 that is accurate and made of all club parts in lesser materials such as wood and plastic could be a "Class 2" R2.
Those droids that are not totally accurate (not made entirely of club purchased parts or have less accurate details) or have custom non-recognisable paint schemes, could be a "Class 3" R2.

The Class 1 and Class 2 R2's may be viewed as a "Canon" costume would in regards to participation in official events.

David L.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I'm probably never going to be asked to help in the debate over admitting droids, and I'm not a builder myself, I really don't have much room to interject... but my opinion from the peanut gallery has two main points: 1) I'm a firm supporter of having as few 'premier costume/prop' groups as possible, from the standpoint of presenting a unified, easy-to-navigate front for the otuside world (we can have as many internal divisions as we want). so allowing R2 and other droids in RL is a brilliant idea, IMO. 2) Considering that pilots are often considered the 'soul' of RL (like how TKs are to 501st), it makes sense that we not only allow 'face character' droids like R2, but also would have some kind of 'generic astromech' standards, to fly behind the legions of 'generic pilots' Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guys this is my 2 cents......since I have been trooping at Science works (Melbourne, Australia) where the star wars display is held, we have 2 working R2 units, once one of these little guys rolled out the kids love them and plenty of the big kids, we are now talking about what kids like, the R2's are very popular I don't see what we are waiting for they would be a great asset to any troop. If I was to hire costumers and found an R2 could be with them I would be over the moon.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WookieeGunner wrote:
So let me ask this, does the R2 builder's group have a set of requirements for a droid to be included in an official function (say C4 level)?


I suppose that depends how do you define 'official function'. So far as I know the R2 builder's group has no official leadership or organisational structure beyond the council to make sure that parts makers credentials are thoroughly vetted.

The hallmark of an R2 Builders gathering be it a BBQ in someone's backyard or the Droid Builder's room at a Star Wars Celebration or Dragon Con is partially assembled droids. It's all about the process.

If the 501st functioned like the R2BG it would be called 'the Stormtrooper Armor Builders Group'.

Building the suit isn't what the 501st is about. You got to white armout or bikerscout.net for that.


Last edited by Voort saBinring (Jon Stokes) on Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My question is that at events (say C4) there is a display of droids put on by the R2Builders group. Now I don't think anyone would expect a R2 Pepsi Cooler to be on display, so how are the droids on display chosen?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are sort of asking the wrong question.
An R2 gathering is not like a 'trooped' event.
The things that matter are motivation and results.
The provenance of the droid is incidental to its appearence.

R2 builders are all headed toward the same goal and a hand crafted droid with a plastic dome a wood frame and $15 scooter motors can look identical to and will sometimes function better than a club parts droid costing 5x's as much.

The cost and materials of construction do not directly imbue superior status on one's droid. A droid built from top dollar club parts might be pretty but at some point it becomes more like a Tiffany lamp instead of what R2 should be a Craftsman(tm) worklight.

The 'true builder' with a unique, well designed, and solidly constructed homemade frame has equal, in fact even greater status in most cases, to the guy with a 'high end' frame from a parts run. Some of the best R2's out there have no aluminum on them. Other's buy club parts and significantly modify them to get even closer to specific references images.

Try to think of us more like attendees at an auto show. At a big event you'll see a pristine vintage Ferrari or two among the rest and sometimes at a small local show the best thing around is a not even close to cherry '67 Chevy Nova.

In the end they are both cars, with 4 tires, a steering wheel and a gas burning engine, but the Ferrari is often a trailer queen, treated like it's made of glass. The Nova in all likelyhood is someone's daily driver.


Now to directly address what you asked....

The layout of the droid room at a 'C' event is planned ahead of time by volunteers who gather info on who is bringing what and try to impose some order on it all, but the design is always left left a bit flexible to allow for the inevitable catastrophes, drop outs, last minute arrivals. Some stuff is planned that never happens because the idea man behind it all wasn't able to come through. Obivously the guys who show up with the shinyest toys get the primo floor space. The rest are arrayed so as to look harmonious.

In the end it is literally just a matter of who shows up, and what they bring. I know people who have fully functioning droids but went to C4 'sans astromech' because it was too expensive to transport the thing from the east coast. Other guys showed up with droids in every state of construction.

If someone actually did show up with a Pepsi cooler it woulds likely be displayed so as to add a touch of whimsy, (with all due reverence for it's collectible status) in the 'Jawa junkyard' where incomplete droids and parts are lovingly displayed in a way that looks realistic to the SW Universe among bits of wire, scraps of metal, and a few Jawa costumed mannikins that someone else might have brought along.

That is... if it weren't put into functional use somewhere behind the curtains stocked with a supply of beverages smuggeled in by the more, shall we say, nefarious members?


WookieeGunner wrote:
My question is that at events (say C4) there is a display of droids put on by the R2Builders group. Now I don't think anyone would expect a R2 Pepsi Cooler to be on display, so how are the droids on display chosen?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DroidWelder wrote:
From discussion on the R2 Builders forum, it has become quite clear that many of the R2 builders do not want R2 units to be accepted as members of any costuming group. They feel as if it takes something away from the R2 Builders club and they want the club to remain an entirely separate entity with the same consideration/respect that the other clubs get.


I would disagree with the use of the word 'many' here. Some... yes, unless there was a poll I missed at Yahoo. The complaintants are quite vocal, but I don't see a lot of different names.

I agree with the rest of droid welders comments, except to say that Mike Senna's R2 is a known LFL 'go to' having appeared at numerous events, and unless he has significantly upgraded it last I heard the frame is a cardboard 'soma' tube and his dome drive is an electric screw driver.
The class distinction that all aluminum = better is just wrong.

Arguably, a significant percentage of active R2 Builders (like droidwelder) are already members of one or more of the costume groups, and some would undoubtedly like R2 added to their character roster where applicable.

I don't think that the groups will ever truly consolidate, any more than whitearmor.com and bikerscout.net will ever be absorbed by the 501st.

DroidWelder wrote:
I can understand this to an extent, however, the R2 Builders Club is not structured the same way as the costuming groups and each R2 Builder acts as his or her own representative, not a rep of the Builders club. The only time members become a representative of the R2 BC is at cons and such where the club members join together to do an exhibit or droid building panel, ect...

There are no droid build requirements for members to participate in events such as the Celebrations. When it comes to LFL events, senior members and those who have finished R2's that are primarily all machined aluminum or at least look accurate are the ones most often contacted to participate in such events.

I personally think it would be advantagious if R2 units could be given some sort of "Official" recognition within the costuming clubs. Even if only accepted as a "Special member" of some sort. (I would be happy with an RL badge of some sort and to be able to officially sign up for events on the local base forum.)

Having a Formal recognition for R2 units would make things easier for any event promoters and contacts. In that they would not have to deal with multiple groups or individuals during the planning and goings on of such events. It would also make things easier on the R2 builders that wish to participate in such events.

As far as requirements placed on an R2 unit to gain such recognition, I think such rules would mainly focus on the exterior of the droid. Mechanics of the droid should not be an issue as long as it's operation is relatively safe, and will not pose a hazzard or danger to others around it.

I would think that any droid replica that has been seen onscreen and is readily recognisable (including R2-D2, R5-D4, R2-X2, R4-M9, ect...)
should be given equal consideration as long as the droid is visibly complete, in that there are no visbly missing parts (unless as seen in the movie that way) and that a certain percentage of the droid looks fairly accurate. I don't think differing minute details should cause a droid to be excluded from acceptance.

As far as custom paint schemes on a droid, I would think that those would also be accepted as long as they do not look too "earthy" and do not contain images that are not family friendly. (This is the basic rule that currently applies to X-wing pilot helmets.)

In reality, the majority of R2 Builders Club members simply buy most of their droid parts from the club parts suppliers and then assemble them. You are not going to get that much variation between droids as far as external physical appearance. At CIV there were many droids sitting next to each other, all built out of various materials including wood, plastics, and metal, yet they all looked basically the same in appearance.
It should not be difficult to accept most droids built by R2 BC members.

For someone who gets on the web and buys a droid from an internet vendor that sells poor quality items, that may be another story.

If a distinction of R2's is needed for say an Official LFL event where only the best is wanted, You could list R2-D2's under different classifications. One that is assembled out of all machined aluminum club parts could be a "Class 1" R2.
An R2 that is accurate and made of all club parts in lesser materials such as wood and plastic could be a "Class 2" R2.
Those droids that are not totally accurate (not made entirely of club purchased parts or have less accurate details) or have custom non-recognisable paint schemes, could be a "Class 3" R2.

The Class 1 and Class 2 R2's may be viewed as a "Canon" costume would in regards to participation in official events.

David L.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voort saBinring wrote:


I agree with the rest of droid welders comments, except to say that Mike Senna's R2 is a known LFL 'go to' having appeared at numerous events, and unless he has significantly upgraded it last I heard the frame is a cardboard 'soma' tube and his dome drive is an electric screw driver.
The class distinction that all aluminum = better is just wrong.


The thing about Mike Senna is that he is one of the original members and has had an R2 longer than most anyone else. That afforded him an opportunity to build up his resume' for events when there were no other droids in the area for quite a long time.

I wouldn't say that all aluminum is necessarily better. And I would have to exclude myself from that as I have a wood and plastic Droid like many others. However, the all aluminum droids tend to be the popular choice by most. They almost always get the attention over the other droids by people outside of the R2 BC. You can not dispute that. Also the fact that the alu droids don't usually have their detail pieces break off as easily as a droid with resin parts does. How many times have you seen broken Holoprojectors or other details on someones droid because they were resin and not aluminum? That's the only reason I would class them as better.

David L.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WookieeGunner wrote:
My question is that at events (say C4) there is a display of droids put on by the R2Builders group. Now I don't think anyone would expect a R2 Pepsi Cooler to be on display, so how are the droids on display chosen?


If Jon's answer was not simple enough, there is no choosing of droids to go on display at such events. It's simply whoever has a droid and wants to bring it does. Regardless of it's state of completion or type of droid.

This is the droid I brought to CIV.


It's not really a Star Wars Droid, or from anything else either. It's totally custom built. At the time I did not have anythng that remotely looked like an astromech. All I had was an incomplete pile of parts. I wanted something to take to CIV and play around with so I built a bot out of whatever junk I could find.

Here's a couple videos of the Builders room with my droid in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9bhFpndYpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNUbOaD5gWs

Yea, some of the builders gave me a hard time for bringing it, but I had Fun and thats what it's all about. My droid seems to be pretty popular with the women and the really small children.

More photos of the builders room here:
http://www.rebelscum.com/c4/c4r2builders/default.asp

David L.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed but it isn't just time, Mike Senna has a 1st rate reliable droid and he is strategically located, living just outside Hollywood CA, in a region with a fair number of troopers (he is 501st and has a TK suit) and a plenty of high profile events.

I don't see too many, film premiers here in Rome NY. Lastly, Mike has done the interpersonal networking that needs to be done to make industry contacts.

He gets gigs because he made himself known for having the skills to pay the bills. He's even sent his wife as a droid operator at least one media event (a photo shoot or TV commercial I forget which) when he absolutely could not get out a conflicting personal obligation.

He is also a name in the group because after years with an operatinal droid he is still giving back to the group devising the new logics, and holding what is arguably the best of all annual builders meets R2-LA seven years running.

DroidWelder wrote:
The thing about Mike Senna is that he is one of the original members and has had an R2 longer than most anyone else. That afforded him an opportunity to build up his resume' for events when there were no other droids in the area for quite a long time.

I wouldn't say that all aluminum is necessarily better. And I would have to exclude myself from that as I have a wood and plastic Droid like many others. However, the all aluminum droids tend to be the popular choice by most. They almost always get the attention over the other droids by people outside of the R2 BC. You can not dispute that. Also the fact that the alu droids don't usually have their detail pieces break off as easily as a droid with resin parts does. How many times have you seen broken Holoprojectors or other details on someones droid because they were resin and not aluminum? That's the only reason I would class them as better.

David L.
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