About Us Members Unit Listing Events Costuming Resources Forum Contact Us Trading Cards
 

Forum and Costume Controls

   FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  medals.php?sid=2f630784e6300c1b9b9ac51eee9dfee0Medals   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in

       
REMINDER: Do not change your e-mail address yourself. Please read this first for why.

Alright! Something new!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Droids
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Aramys Strael (Bill Kohlleppel)



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1256

Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BocrebJedi wrote:
Quote:
So no full-sized Gonk Droids, eh?




This would be version 1.1 back in 2007.

I'll try to find a good picture of version 1.2, basically you can't see inside anymore.

And I'll try to start a thread for version 2.0, which I've already started.



Classic buddy. My hat's off to you! bow

Somehow, I don't think yours weighed nearly as much as mine did.... Rolling Eyes My word, wearing that thing was brutal!

- Bill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
BocrebJedi ()
Active Legion Member


Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 18

Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wore it when we would volunteer for the Star Wars Science exhibit at the Science Museum in MN. I could make it for about 30-40 minutes before I would have to take a rest. It wasn't too bad except for all the kids who would chase me around and want to knock me over.
_________________
Gonk. Gonk Gonk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Princess Leia Organa (Lori)
Rebel Legion Reserve


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 5968

Medals: 1 (View more...)
Rebel Legion CV Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gandalfbmg wrote:
JediMom3 wrote:
Schph Gochi wrote:

I will go on record here as stating that R2 Units and thier handlers should be full RL members regardless of what the wrangler is wearing...

feel free to beat me up on that...


Wink


I agree Phyllis and tryed to push for this but not everyone was in agreement Crying or Very sad

Seems maybe someone should pose this as a question to our new council hopefuls, see where they stand on the issue to help inform who we pick for the next year's administration Wink I think allowing R2 as a 'member' is a great idea, if done correctly!


I was discussing this in the LCJ forum and well I might as well make it be known,

I am the current LMO and have always supported that R2s should be accepted into the RL. But, as council member, I am merely one vote but I want you all to know that you've always had my support

~ Lori
_________________
R/S Original Trilogy LCJ
BH-0937 "Boushh Leia" of Florida Garrison

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Voort saBinring (Jon Stokes)



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 64
Location: Holland Patent NY
Medals: 1 (View more...)
Droid Wranglers (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur with FloridaRobot.
A hidden operator is the best way to go.

Personally, I would love to finish my X-wing Pilot costume and wear it to an event acting like an X-wing Pilot while interacting with other characters (R2 included) but interacting with R2, is NOT the same as operating R2.

And I have no problem with a RFT or a TK running a mouse droid say in a parade, if the controls can be secreted in a blaster, as some have done, so long as the operator is a good enough puppeteer to look nonchalant, and dis-associate his actions with those of the MSE, instead of staring at every move the thing makes like a child following an inchworm.

I think we need to make a clear distinction between the Droid Operator and the Droid Wrangler (what you might call a character escort).

For best effect R2 needs both wrangler(s) and a separate operator. R2 is very much a 'special effect', with a lot of behind the scenes type stuff happening to make it 'look right'. Consider how in the movies we really needed C-3PO's interaction with R2 in order to understand the character.

Operators may need to take their eye off the ball for a moment to correct a servo trim, peek around a corner to see if R2 is too close to the edge of a flight of stairs, or look at their keypad to recall which button activates a certain sound file.

Wranglers act as translators who talk to the crowd for R2 and keep more aggressive persons from harming him. Above all they are responsible for establishing R2's 'realness'. They are like the magician's 'lovely assistant' whose purpose is to draw attention away from the operator, where the 'trick' is happening so it all looks like 'magic'. They also have to be able to seamlessly cross the '4th wall', between the Star Wars universe and the 'real world', by pretending to understand R2's bleeps and whistles while talking as if it is completely normal for an astromech to have come out to the shopping mall on a Saturday.

Unfortunately, R2 is a far more complex 'aminal' than a mouse droid. Typically an operator needs to account for remote control of a library of sound, lights, and three degrees of motion (including dome rotation) in order to keep R2 looking 'alive' and alert in front of a crowd.

Operators function best if they can hide in plain sight by blending in with the crowd. Several accomplished R2 builders have told about how they were able to have conversations with 'other audience members' speculating on where the operator might be, while they were secretly controlling R2 with one hand in a satchel slung over their shoulder. Some R2 Builders are currently developing control systems that will allow R2 to be operated using a custom iPhone application. When done it will allow for the best disguise at the operator will apppear to be just one more person in the crowd trying to take a picture of R2, or texting.

Still R2 should have a wrangler or two like any crowd pleasing costumed character, and it almost doesn't matter whether the wrangler is in costume, or not. Even when there is a costume involved most people consciously realize that the guy in the Jedi robes who is talking to R2 is really not a Jedi but more likely an accountant from Des Moines, and yet they are completely willing to suspend disbelief for R2 under the most bizarre of circumstances.

I once walked through the Sangertown Mall in New Hartford New York in my street clothes talking to an R2 controlled by a hidden operator, chatting with the little droid like it was nothing unusual to have a functioning astromech follow me around on a shopping trip.
Crowds of shoppers formed. They took pictures, and asked all sorts of questions, like 'does it do X'?

I would turn to R2 and say 'Hey R2! Can you do X?' in a voice loud enough for the 'audience to hear (and the operator who hung back in the shadows) and R2 would do it and they were simply dumbfounded. One guy asked me if R2 was voice controlled, to which I replied 'No, he hardly listens to me at all." Eventually some woudl look around to spot the operator, but for a moment even over the protestation of their innate cynisim they really wanted to believe.

Unlike some costumed characters that dare not speak for fear of blowing the illusion (Disney) It is the casual banter between the Wrangler and the Droid or R2 and the Audience that completes the makes for and interactive experience like no other.

When you see Darth Vader at an event he had better be acting all tough and Sith like, not joking about what happened last night on American Idol or your gonna be disappointed.

R2 by contrast can chat with people, (through the translations of a clever Wrangler) about a little girl's birthday, ask her favorite color, talk with her Dad about the stock market, or just anything and people will simply eat it up.

Keeping R2 'alive' while handling both sides of the conversation requires a level of performance ability that I simply can not muster. Now, some folks may have the talent to pull off a prefessional looking 'ventriloquist act', playing both parts being the operator and wrangler at the same time. I guarentee you they are not doing this while holding a huge off the shelf Futaba transmitter in their hands.

A typical 6 channel R/C transmitter is not an authorized part of an X-Wing Pilot uniform. and walking around with one is sure to distract from the 'reality ' of R2 and the costuem of the person carrying it . Best you could hope for is maybe disguising it as a piece of Hoth survival gear, but How many Hoth Han Solo's do you have at any given event?

Rather such a 'one man magic act' is better managed if control mechanisms can be integrated into the costume, and that is where the difficulty of designing, operating and keeping the thing reliably functional starts to go up exponentially. We all know how expensie soem of teh top end costumes can be.

An R2 with the most basic functions (lights sound movment) can easily run as much as a passable Fett or Vader by itself. Add to that the cost of a costume for the operator and then add the expense of a hidden control system, and the total quickly becomes:

"Well... more wealth than YOU can imagine!!"

and personally, 'I can imagine quite a bit'

Then again maybe it would all fit inside an old Ice Cream Maker?


FloridaRobot wrote:
I've got an R2 and would love to bring him along to RL events in an official capacity but I can't see myself wearing a costume while wrangling.

To safely wrangle a 200 pound droid, you must be focused on the droid and keep an eye on the people surrounding it. I like to blend into the crowd and control the droid with my hand in a leather shoulder bag that has the controls. The more you blend in the better the effect and also once people determine you're controlling the droid they often come over to talk. And that takes away from the concentration so R2 usually stands still while I talk. I think putting on a costume would call attention to the wrangler and make it harder to blend in.

http://floridarobot.blogspot.com


Last edited by Voort saBinring (Jon Stokes) on Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Voort saBinring (Jon Stokes)



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 64
Location: Holland Patent NY
Medals: 1 (View more...)
Droid Wranglers (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the good fortune to have my R2 at Steel City Con in April of 2009. There signing autographs was Anthony Daniels.

I was more than happy to let him 'Wrangle' my R2. there is a pic of him chatting up my R2 on the Steel City Con website. Someone got video.
When R2 began playing the Indiana Jones theme AD had this respone.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/genin-x...57617269662279
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Obey Wann (William Blackburn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 3237

Medals: 1 (View more...)
Colorado Wildfires 2012 Relief Award (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Princess Leia Organa wrote:
gandalfbmg wrote:
JediMom3 wrote:
Schph Gochi wrote:

I will go on record here as stating that R2 Units and thier handlers should be full RL members regardless of what the wrangler is wearing...

feel free to beat me up on that...


Wink


I agree Phyllis and tryed to push for this but not everyone was in agreement Crying or Very sad

Seems maybe someone should pose this as a question to our new council hopefuls, see where they stand on the issue to help inform who we pick for the next year's administration Wink I think allowing R2 as a 'member' is a great idea, if done correctly!


I was discussing this in the LCJ forum and well I might as well make it be known,

I am the current LMO and have always supported that R2s should be accepted into the RL. But, as council member, I am merely one vote but I want you all to know that you've always had my support

~ Lori



You guys have my support as well, but I'm just an LCJ. (But I have been arguing the point in the LCJ forum.)

I don't have a vote that counts, but I can help support you when & where I can. That said, I do agree that this is a question that you should ask of the prospective Administrative Council members.

The common argument so far against allowing a non-costumed R2 operator is that it is not a "costume" but more of a "prop." If you can't wear it, it's not a costume, therefore not something for the Rebel Legion, because we are a "costuming group. " My argument is that R2 is a "character", the quintessential good guy, and whether or not you can wear it, R2 units are classic "good guys".

I also agree that the operator should not be encumbered by a costume. It can be a distraction, especially if someone wants a pic of the RFT/Jedi/Tech (or whatever costume the operator is wearing), then they can't do their job of watching the droid. Personally, I think it adds to the realism if no one even knows who or where the operator is. Incognito is good!!!

Please have a talk with your base COs or AC members, and let them know what you think. If enough people show their support, maybe R2 operators will be allowed as full-fledged members, regardsless of what outfit they wear.
_________________
www.blackburn-photography.com

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HoosierTrooper ()



Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 10

Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there! Its good to see that droids are top of mind for people around here. The welcoming vibe that the RL is known for really proves true, both in real life and online. I'm a 501st member, an R2 Builders Club member, and I'm only one belt away from submitting my RL membership too. In fact, I'll be doing an event tonight with BrianKenobi and a few other rebels, driving my R2t. Smile

I've actually had a casual conversation with Hoffman about the RL accepting droids into the club, and I guess I am coming at it from a different angle. For me, as a builder who takes my R2 to many events across the country, I am actually against droids having membership in the costuming clubs. For me, its a bit like the 501st saying they want to accept X-Wing pilots into their group. In a way, it blurs the lines between the two clubs and what they do best.

Rather than accepting R2s into another club, I prefer strengthening relationships between the RL/501st and the R2 Builders. The R2 Builders have been around for over a decade, and have members around the world just like the RL. I really see the RL and R2 Builders club as two distinct groups that go hand and hand (nothing goes better with a droid than a rebel!).

Anyway, thats just my personal $.02. Certainly no right or wrong. Just wanted to lend another friendly perspective. Very Happy

Cheers,
Cole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dmc2291 (Dennis)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 19

Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Cole, and as a member of all 3 clubs, I agree heartily.
_________________
TC-2291
Tranquility Base
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
bmann (Blake Mann)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 55

Medals: None

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:57 am    Post subject: Droids as members of the RL Reply with quote

Actually I tend to agree with Cole at least about the two clubs specializing in their specific areas. The problem however is that if the RL wants droids to be a part of their events but denies membership to the droid builder who brings the droid to the event it leaves the droid builder feeling a bit like an outsider even though he or she participates in the event.

On the other hand, even though the droid builder is bringing a droid to an event if he or she does not have a costume this tends to destroy the illusion the RL seeks to create at an event.

To solve this dilema I think a simple costume should be designated by the RL that a droid builder needs to wear at an event. This could be a simple jump suit and a hat as seen in the following reference photo on the Astromech.net site. It would be inexpensive enough for a droid builder to purchase and would actually be a screen accurate costume of a droid mechanic.

http://astromech.net/?q=gallery&g2_itemId=8930
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1467
Location: Everett, Washington
Medals: 2 (View more...)
CVI Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so glad to see we are involving our droids into the Saga environs of the costuming world!
I whole heartedly agree with Blake that there should be a standard dress for a droid operator that allows membership. The tech personnel coveralls in the films would be a great costume standard.
I can't think of what it's called, but in Japan they have puppeteers that operate life-size puppets while wearing black leotards covering them up to the eyes. The audience loses sight of them right away as the characters perform. A costume that allows some anonymity while operating a robot could be just the ticket!
Just my two cents worth. Ben

(Droids have feeling too!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DroidWelder ()



Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Location: Arizona
Medals: 2 (View more...)
Rebel Legion Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not quite as simple as purchasing a jumpsuit. This "Costume" falls under the Yavin hangar tech and there are a set of requirements for it. The jumpsuit itself has the same kind of pockets as the other jumpsuits like the X-wing pilot, except that it's all out in the open instead of hidden by other costume pieces. That means that the jumpsuit must be accurate to what is seen on screen to be RL approved. There are other required items as well, such as accuate type belt and buckle , ect.... Here is the list.

Required Items:

1. Accurate tech helmet (RFT helmet with no swoop on back and either light or dark comm box)
2. Light tan, beige, or light gray coverall with mandarin-style collar and pointed tab, rectangular pocket with a flap closure on upper right arm, and thigh and knee pockets. No visible zippers or snaps.
3. Dark tan or dark gray belt
4. Black boots or black shoes

It should also include Olive drab as a belt option as well. Why that's not on there I don't know.

Wearing that helmet would definitely not allow you to blend in with the crowd.

David L.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
bmann (Blake Mann)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 55

Medals: None

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'm not seeing Yavin Hanger Tech listed on the costuming resources page. Where are you finding the details of this costume? Is that a helmet the guy is wearing or a hat? I can't tell from the photo. Still, even with the requirements you listed it should be a simple costume that I think most droid builders could handle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
DroidWelder ()



Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 571
Location: Arizona
Medals: 2 (View more...)
Droid Wranglers (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's listed under Rebel Fleet Trooper near the bottom of the page.

http://www.rebellegion.com/about_standards.php?id=8863

When you see the photo posted you'll see the helmets.

I don't disagree with you about most being able to handle that but I doubt
you'll find many that are willing to wear it.

David L.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bothan Jedi ()
Archived Member Profile


Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 99

Medals: None

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not directed at anyone specifically, but I think it's quite presumptuous to think that us droid builders want to follow another groups rules, or dress in costume. I know I'll not be when I'm out with my droid.

I'm sure some droid wranglers will benefit from allowing droids in, but I really don't think it's necessary for the majority.

I would say that at least half of the events I do with my droid have nothing to do with the RL/501st (or even Star Wars sometimes), and those where there's multiple group involved, for the majority I've made my own plans with the organizers - so membership in the RL/501st is a mute point.

The R2 Builders Club operates very differently to other fan clubs, in fact it's not really a fan club at all. There is no hierarchy, bureaucracy, charter or anything like that. Ever droid builder is his own person, free to do whatever they want with their droid.

As it stands, I think the various groups have a healthy relationship - lets keep it that way.

Chris
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
HoosierTrooper ()



Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 10

Medals: None

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just need to get the belt, and I will be ready to join as a tech. Smile

Watching those guys lift the R2 units into the X-Wings is just too cool to ignore. Smile
_________________
Cole Horton
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Droids All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can post calendar events in this forum
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans. While not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred volunteer Rebel costuming group. Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2014 Lucasfilm Ltd. & ™ All rights reserved. Used under authorization.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group