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Belt Exception Question
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Grey Jedi (Donna Keeley)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, I apologize for taking so long to answer your question. Sometimes things drop through the cracks for me and I am only human.

Regarding every little detail as "screen accurate", while it's true we may see it on the screen but there is a bigger mission in recreating a fictional military group. If we compare it to today's military, we still see a uniform set of clothing accessories for different parts of the military unit.

This is one of the "gray areas" of costuming. Do we accept it as formal because it was on an obscure background character, even though the item was identified as belonging to another group? Or do we try to improve our public image by presenting a uniform group of costumers when wearing a particular outfit with our fellow base members?

There are arguments for both sides.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and...
I would just like to interject one last thing...
something that even I forget from time to time...

remember that all of us in any kind of "commad" position here are volunteers...

and sometimes "Darth Real Life" throws us curves and problems that can't always be dealt with as quickly as we would like....

so

we can't always address things as quickly as we would like...

Very Happy
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Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, thank you all for your thoughtful explanations!

Becoming a CO is giving me more appreciation for the time restraints of helping everyone with their concerns. I personally will have to be more patient in future in expecting responses.

Phyllis, I just joined your Yahoo Tantive group and hope to be involved as I endeavor to build my RFT kit. I would very much like to become a part of RAID some day soon.

We have several RFT kits in our base, but they have not been focused on. So I am having a planning session this weekend and one of my important agenda items is to see if we can get more interest going in this costume.

Thanks again Everyone! See you in the ranks! Ben
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I can assist you in any way with your group effort...
please don't hesitate to let me know..

also...
if some of the directions in my tutorials for the RFT are not clear or need expanding...
make sure to let me know that too...

I tried to make the tutorials clear...but find sometimes when I go back and look at what I did...
I can't figure out what my own instructions......lol...
and I was there....and wrote it...

Embarassed Very Happy
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Downtown (Joe Brown)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Loreen Shadowchaser wrote:
Geez, not another "debate" on this costume! Rolling Eyes

This should be a standard uniform, everyone looking the same.

We shouldn't be counting where the costumers in the movie production were cutting corners because of small budget.

I'm sure the black belt was something that movie goers weren't supposed to notice.


It was in the movie....it's "canon". Razz
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Aramys Strael (Bill Kohlleppel)



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Downtown wrote:
Folard-Toz wrote:
Sorry if I have stirred up a controversy in any way. I was only trying to obtain a reply to my original requests for a judgment.

It seems that we are going to great extremes many times to be sure that every detail is covered in our standards, more so in the RL than in the 501st. So it was a natural assumption that any noted inconsistencies should be brought to the leadership.

Some of us are on very limited budgets, and if a piece from another kit would be acceptable for a canon event, then it is appropriate for it be at least mentioned as allowable.

I was very aware of the buckle shape. The real question here was that the belt that appears is definitely a black officer belt from the Imperial Officer kit. The give away is the silver button to the left of the buckle which is not seen on the brown belts of the RFT. Since I am working very hard to build a RFT trooper and may have difficulty affording the helmet alone, it would be nice to know that my officer belt could be used for a canon acceptance in the RL.

I hope I am not alone in being a struggling costumer. No intention was harbored at making controversy.
Ben


I look at it this way....The Rebel Alliance didn't have millions of credits stashed away for ships, guns, uniforms and the like. The did alot of stealing....*ahem*....borrowing what they needed from Imperial transports and warehouse. So I'm pretty sure there were some running around with E-11's and officer boots or they converted uniform pieces to RA (Rebel Alliance) standard uniforms.
Heck, I noticed that the Endor rifle and the Hoth rifle are the same greeblies, different gun. But they both reseble each other vary nicely.

IMO, I think it would be totally cool in my book if somebody used a black belt. That dead rebel probably killed a higher ranking officer and is keeping it as a trophy.


Donna is right. We all know that the first movie was made on a shoe-string budget. But we also have to go by the spirit of the theme here. The RFT's were a group of soldiers from Alderaan. They were funded, equipped and maintained by the Alderaanian government. To that end, it means that we, as costumers, are to take it to mean that we need to be on the same page, as far as standards go. And that page has been written.

It was a continuity snafu that led to that actor wearing the wrong belt. Let's just leave it at that.

As far as the difference between the Endor and Hoth Rifles... again it goes back to what they had available at the time. They filmed mostly in Europe for ESB, so they had managed to get a good amount of German STG-44's for the Rebel Rifles. When it came time to do Endor, that was mostly filmed here in the States. The German STG's weren't available, but AR-15/M-16 variants were. That is why they are different weapons.

The point is, that the standard is the standard. No exceptions. Those folks who have brought us the standards worked very hard to be as consistent and accurate as humanly possible.

- Bill
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol.....
wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

One thing I would like everyone to try sometime....is to experiment around with color as rendered in photos and on computers vs the "real deal"
and...since I am easily amused...I found it interesting....

I have done this on several occasions...and the results are always rather confounding...

Take an article of clothing...
photograph it...
with the same camera...
with several cameras
try it at different times of the day...
under different lighting...
natural
incandescent
flourescent (i am sure my spelling it terrible)
etc....
try it on different colors of carpet even...

then take said photo and
print it...
scan it....
try looking at it on diffrent monitors
then take all those photo references and take said article of original clothing and compare them...

the results are interesting....

so my bottom line is becoming...
unless George Lucas shows up at my house with the original item in his hand...
I am not really sure what any color is...I can only draw conclusions...
right or wrong
good, bad or indifferent...

As Ben Kenobi has been known to say...

"Your eyes can deceive you....don't trust them"...

Very Happy
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Kimelius ()
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... then mix those opinions on pics with colour swatches, dye charts, cafeine-fueled insomnia Wink

the dark side of real life can cloud our judgement!

If there are a number of RFT WIP's in Alpha base, perhaps buying common items like leather belts, shirts etc in one go in order to provide uniformity might help?

Same with painting helmets - be it a grey, off white or whatever shade is decided upon.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you have a bunch of RFTs in progress...
be uniform to each other...

You will be the ones going out as a group...and it is important that you look like each other...
and not so much looking like RFTs somewhere else in the country.

As far as helmet color...
your choice at your base level....

As far as belt...it should be brown.....

and....going a step further (as we did with the original 4 Delta Sqaud members)...make a mass order for your shirts so that you are all alike...
I am sure you can figure out how many shades of blue there are out there...

Wink

If you can find the Navy work shirts....go with those as that is what most have used.....
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Krash ()
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schph Gochi wrote:
Since you have a bunch of RFTs in progress...
be uniform to each other...

Great, since Downtown would be the only RFT in Ohio: hey Joe... "be uniform" with your bad self. Wink

I try and keep up with what's going on in the other costume subgroups (that I'm not involved with) so that when new people come to me with questions about RL... I can tell them what's up. In this case, I believe 100% uniformity can give some ground to keeping with the idea that this was a "rebellion" not a well funded/uniform military.

Quote:
The point is, that the standard is the standard. No exceptions. Those folks who have brought us the standards worked very hard to be as consistent and accurate as humanly possible.

But that doesn't mean what they came up with is set in stone or beyond question. And simply writing off the difference in the belt styles/colors as a SNAFU on the costume department's part is a bit of a cop-out way of saying "it's in the movie, but we don't wanna acknowledge that part of SW canon, cause that's not what WE have with our gear."

I know some pilots have black belt/holsters with their blasters (me) and some have brown (Hofmann)... and folks still know we're both rebel pilots.
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Downtown (Joe Brown)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well then my RFT would consist of a smoking jacket, helmet, and fuzzy bunny slippers then! Laughing

But really, the way I've noticed with the 501st and RL.....even if the character only appeared for 2 seconds and he was wearing a certain pair of Nike's....then it's canon. Even most EU characters are getting numbers and getting costume standards.
If Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz) was good enough with the eye to pick out an RFT with a black There are so many differnt colors and variations with so many outfits that it's not funny. Like was was put in another thread, it could be tan or grey....who knows! Maybe they ran out of a certain fabric or could be the bright lighting or the camera lens distorting the color....I've seen that happen many times when I've developed film myself (amatuer photographer, know my way around the chemicals Mr. Green )
Heck, I might just start wearing a black belt with my RFT from now on.
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Krash ()
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Downtown wrote:
If Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz) was good enough with the eye to pick out an RFT with a black There are so many differnt colors and variations with so many outfits that it's not funny.

I agree (well done Charles) and that should indicate that the current RFT standards are too limited in this respect. If we're trying to remain true to the spirit of what is seen in the SW films, then we should be able to apprvove more of the belt varients... without having to brand the costume as INFORMAL, or (more to the point) "something LESS then perfect by someone's personal standards"
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Grey Jedi (Donna Keeley)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this fuss over a belt? Is it really going to bankrupt someone to ask that they use brown instead of black because 99.999999999999999999999% of the characters had brown?

Let's be a little practical here.

The whole reason standards have been revised/upgraded was to get away from the general notion that RL didn't care about quality costumes. So after three years of very hard work, trying to find the right "middle course" of not being too strict yet being firm, you guys are going to "mutiny" because the standard asks for brown instead of black?

I could understand if the standard insisted on gray helmets instead of accepting both white and gray because that caused a huge ruckus among people. Some things are worth bending on to keep the peace. But a belt? C'mon, find something more important to get miffed about. Rolling Eyes

And Informal is not a dirty word. Out of all our bases world-wide, the Formal standard is only applied to a handful because they do high-profile events; the rest of the bases can use their Informal costumes as much as they want because of the scarcity of LFL-requested appearances.

The problem with bending over backwards to please everyone is that, at some point, your back will break. So let's give this one a rest, please.
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Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wooooah folks! I want to again reiterate that I am satisfied with the costume judge's response to this matter about the belt. In my view that belt was not a big deal, but I did want to understand it's relationship to using the standards.

I'm very sorry that this has become some kind of a sticking point. I will be building my costume according to the standards and doing my best to make it look like those already in my base. The choice for canon acceptance is my own, and I have nothing against generic costumes at all.

I hope this helps to calm the discussion in this regard! Ben
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Krash ()
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grey Jedi wrote:
Some things are worth bending on to keep the peace. But a belt? C'mon, find something more important to get miffed about. Rolling Eyes

Who's miffed? (not me) I'm just sharing in the opinion that of all the things "worth bending on to keep the peace" ... belt color would be one of them. You're the one bent outta shape cause for some of us... costume standards aren't treated like sacred text.

Quote:
And Informal is not a dirty word.

It's shouldn't be, but that's exactly how it's treated when we're clawing over each other at the chance at one of those LFL events.
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