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Belt Exception Question
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Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:08 am    Post subject: Belt Exception Question Reply with quote

I have submitted some PMs regarding a discovery on some film clips of the Epi IV fight scenes that reveal another belt and buckle. So far, since I have not received any responses from the judges, I am in need of clarification on acceptance even though this doesn't appear in the standards. Please anyone comment.


Looks like they may have used belts from the dark side as well.
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Darth Lars
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The standards allows the buckle to be "rectangular, octagonal or oval". I believe that the standards have said so at least a year ago ... or have they been changed in the between?
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Grey Jedi (Donna Keeley)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of those areas where, if we let every exception into the standard, then we won't be very "standard" at all.

The overwhelming majority have used the brown belts as shown in most of the screen shots. Would it be a great hardship for this member to simply use a brown belt like the 99.9999999999% of the other members have? What color belts do other RFTs in the base use?

I can understand asking for an exception in cases were the item is extremely hard to get or there is a physical exception (Jack boots and Israeli Army boots only go up to a certain size but a person with larger feet wants to do the costume), but is it really such a difficult thing to use a brown belt instead of a black one?
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Aramys Strael (Bill Kohlleppel)



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do we know that is not a brown belt that is showing up black due to position of the actor on the floor or the lighting on the set?

I say just go with the KISS method. Keep it simple, just do as every other trooper has done and go with the generic brown belt with the appropriate belt buckle; rectangle, octagonal or oval, as previously mentioned.

- Bill
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Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I have stirred up a controversy in any way. I was only trying to obtain a reply to my original requests for a judgment.

It seems that we are going to great extremes many times to be sure that every detail is covered in our standards, more so in the RL than in the 501st. So it was a natural assumption that any noted inconsistencies should be brought to the leadership.

Some of us are on very limited budgets, and if a piece from another kit would be acceptable for a canon event, then it is appropriate for it be at least mentioned as allowable.

I was very aware of the buckle shape. The real question here was that the belt that appears is definitely a black officer belt from the Imperial Officer kit. The give away is the silver button to the left of the buckle which is not seen on the brown belts of the RFT. Since I am working very hard to build a RFT trooper and may have difficulty affording the helmet alone, it would be nice to know that my officer belt could be used for a canon acceptance in the RL.

I hope I am not alone in being a struggling costumer. No intention was harbored at making controversy.
Ben
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Aramys Strael (Bill Kohlleppel)



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we are all struggling costumers at some point or another. No worries. I didn't even notice that silver snap until you pointed it out.

- Bill
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Grey Jedi (Donna Keeley)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, do we make the exception for the one extra actor who was given the wrong belt during filming over all the other, clearly visible actors with matching outfits?

We have to take into consideration that the original movie was very low budget. We are trying to portray a unit of uniformed military and the need to have everyone looking the same can become important if you suddenly get 10 new RFTs in your base.

You could probably find a brown belt at a thrift store for under $5 and the buckle readily available for the same price.

However, if that is still out of your budget, then submit the costume with the incorrect belt and it will be considered "Informal" until the correct belt can be obtained. Canon/LFL events are really not an issue for most bases, so the Formal standing does not come into play that much.
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Downtown (Joe Brown)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folard-Toz wrote:
Sorry if I have stirred up a controversy in any way. I was only trying to obtain a reply to my original requests for a judgment.

It seems that we are going to great extremes many times to be sure that every detail is covered in our standards, more so in the RL than in the 501st. So it was a natural assumption that any noted inconsistencies should be brought to the leadership.

Some of us are on very limited budgets, and if a piece from another kit would be acceptable for a canon event, then it is appropriate for it be at least mentioned as allowable.

I was very aware of the buckle shape. The real question here was that the belt that appears is definitely a black officer belt from the Imperial Officer kit. The give away is the silver button to the left of the buckle which is not seen on the brown belts of the RFT. Since I am working very hard to build a RFT trooper and may have difficulty affording the helmet alone, it would be nice to know that my officer belt could be used for a canon acceptance in the RL.

I hope I am not alone in being a struggling costumer. No intention was harbored at making controversy.
Ben


I look at it this way....The Rebel Alliance didn't have millions of credits stashed away for ships, guns, uniforms and the like. The did alot of stealing....*ahem*....borrowing what they needed from Imperial transports and warehouse. So I'm pretty sure there were some running around with E-11's and officer boots or they converted uniform pieces to RA (Rebel Alliance) standard uniforms.
Heck, I noticed that the Endor rifle and the Hoth rifle are the same greeblies, different gun. But they both reseble each other vary nicely.

IMO, I think it would be totally cool in my book if somebody used a black belt. That dead rebel probably killed a higher ranking officer and is keeping it as a trophy.
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Jedi Loreen (Lori Procopio)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez, not another "debate" on this costume! Rolling Eyes

This should be a standard uniform, everyone looking the same.

We shouldn't be counting where the costumers in the movie production were cutting corners because of small budget.

I'm sure the black belt was something that movie goers weren't supposed to notice.

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Commander Cody (Jason R.)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Loreen Shadowchaser wrote:
[size=16][color=blue]Geez, not another "debate" on this costume! Rolling Eyes


Did you really need to make this statement? I don't see how it is contributing to the discussion at all.

Anyway, standards are standards, which are approved by people who are authorities on the costume Wink
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Princess Leia Organa (Lori)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, what you have pointed out is interesting however, as mentioned it is not the norm of the Fleet Troopers.

I hate to say it, but Lucas back in the day was known for recycling costume parts and some times on characters that shouldn't have these costume pieces. We've seen it before and even though TKs are not our area, their are inconsistencies with them too.

While I appreciate your find, I think its best for the legion to stay with a uniform standard.
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Taylor ()



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Princess Leia Organa wrote:
Charles, what you have pointed out is interesting however, as mentioned it is not the norm of the Fleet Troopers.

I hate to say it, but Lucas back in the day was known for recycling costume parts and some times on characters that shouldn't have these costume pieces. We've seen it before and even though TKs are not our area, their are inconsistencies with them too.

While I appreciate your find, I think its best for the legion to stay with a uniform standard.


I agree, even though it looks cool and unique it still has to be cannon and acepted but thats a nice find my friend I like it!
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Folard-Toz (Charles Foltz)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, everyone! I myself would not submit a costume for approval until I was sure it was canon via the standards. That of course is a personal choice.
My confusion seems to be over how on the one hand we seem to want the membership to improve their kits in terms of detailed accuracy, but at the same time we are not very accommodating when detail discoveries are questioned.
I feel it would be more fair to new members to be sure that they are not given the impression that costume tweaking is for the purpose of more accuracy, but really more for matching the existing standards.
I'm sorry if I have covered grounds of concern that others have raised in the past. Since I have no past as yet, I feel that my concerns are as relevant as if they were posed for the first time.
There still exists a lack of clarity in regards to interpreting costume standards. If this is the sole responsibility of the judges, then it is important for them to treat the concerns of new members not as an annoyance, but rather as an opportunity to educate them. Unfortunately, in this instance I felt that I had to come to the forum when no response was forthcoming from two costume judges.
This has been a very educational experience to which I will reflect on should other questions arise in future.
I hope I haven't offended anyone or been a burden on their time. Neutral
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wish there was a better way to establish things...especially color..

and am sorry for your frustration...
and since I am XO of the Troopers....mark my frustration as double.

I have been looking at screen captures and all of my reference books lately till my eyes are ready to bleed ...for the costume I just finished and I would like to address the other two Hoth characters...


I have seen so many quirky differences ....
and all of the recycled costume pieces...applied here and there.

There are even a couple RFT's in one of the photos that had the same leg flares on their boots as the X-Wing Pilots had..

and...
sorry to re-hash...but...indeed...
the Rebels were thrown just about everything to wear in scenes that I am sure NO ONE in their right mind would figure that over 30 years later these costume items would be scrutinized so closely....they wore whatever was laying around....

Just tossing my two credits into the same pool that we are just trying to be as consistant as possible...
When it came to the first 4 members of Delta Squad...we even went so far as to purchase the same shirts from the same manufacturer and I took all the shirts and put them through color remover all at the same time just to look consistant with each other.

sorry...
I seem to be going on...
I just wanted to let you know that we are also just as frustrated as you...
Embarassed
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Princess Leia Organa (Lori)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with what Phyllis said. The OT at times can be very trying to figure out the standards. 30 years ago, costume and costume parts were not well documented as you see today. There's a big difference in documentation from the OT to the PT. Then there is the fact that there was recycling of costume parts in the OT for no particular reason.

If any members have any questions with regards to the standards or requirements of a costume, please feel free to contact me directly. I will read them and get back to you Wink It may take a day or so, but I always answer them. Sometimes, a member will make a valid point on a costume. If this happens, I bring it up to the LCJs, DCOs/DXOs as well as our LCO and we then discuss and consider the point that was brought forward.

So please feel free to contact me directly either by pm or email. I will get back to you Wink
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