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Black Lives Matter Support
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grenaidan ()



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrTexas wrote:


The hard truth of it is that we have several members that would feel attacked if we had used such a hashtag. While we in command may not agree with a group, we still have to take into account that we have a lot of members that feel a certain way. The media has done a lot of damage in regards to groups like BLM and we did not want to just throw it out there and have them feel insulted.



This is completely unacceptable. You are prioritizing the feelings of "a lot of members" over the feelings of Black members, POC members, and Black and POC non-members, who are watching groups like ours. This is cowardly and the peak of white privilege.

Who are these members that would feel "attacked" by the phrase Black Lives Matter? Not only do I not believe that there are "a lot" of these members, but I don't think anyone who would feel "attacked" by Black Lives Matter should be a member of the Rebel Legion.

This response makes me want to quit the Legion, straight up.
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panakin_anakin ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuiGonJyn wrote:
Minimizing the Black Lives Matter movement as just “a hashtag” really summarizes how blind some people are to this issue. People are dying. Our Black members are at risk every day. And we’re worried about upsetting people who don’t think that Black people don’t deserve to killed in the streets? Do these people really need to be in our Legion anyway?


Absolutely. The Rebel Legion needs to do better. Black Lives Matter.
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naberrie ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris, both your replies to me personally and these excuses are pretty poor.

Toeing the line only serves to allow the oppressed to feel unseen and even more belittled, and oppressors to continue thinking we invite them.

Black lives matter is not a hashtag, it’s a movement, its a concrete show of support. It is life or death for people. And if it is really just a hashtag for you, why is it so hard to say?

‘I’m a middle class white guy, I don’t know’

You’re right, and we can’t belittle or discredit people who don’t know everything yet, there’s always learning and educating to be done to expand our worldviews. But Chris, that’s your responsibility. If you recognise you have privileges and your understanding may not be full because of these, that’s your duty to us as a PR officer and your duties as a human, to be aware and involved with what’s going on in the world right now. Nobody is perfect, we’ve all said imperfect things. We all have incomplete knowledge. It’s not enough to hold up your hands and say, you’re right, I don’t know. You have to want to know more.

Like everyone else has echoed, what are ‘both sides’? racist or ignorant, and anti-racist? Why would we feel the need to performatively moderate what needs to be said, to placate people who have the resources to educate themselves but choose not to. White comfort and for the ease of our social media channels, shouldn’t be prioritised over showing POC within our membership and beyond that we have their back.

I get it, this isn’t easy. It isn’t easy to feel like you can’t fully understand, and don’t want to set a foot wrong. But when there are people with lived experience and otherwise begging you to listen, you have to digest that and correct your course. That’s part of being a human being, acknowledging other people, learning more, and making better decisions.

I think it’s been clear enough that BLM is important, we’re saying that and want to be heard. We want you to hear that and correct your course, if you’re representative of us all as members, you need to listen to what we have to say sometimes and make changes accordingly.

Leadership is hard, but you put yourself in standing for it and were elected into the position. Being scrutinised or being held accountable is a huge part of being a leader and making choices, it’s not an excuse for saying nothing at all.

I honestly just want to leave both you personally and everyone in this thread, that I only wish we grow and accept that it isn’t political to let people know their lives and their struggles matter to us. Do the right thing, let our black community know we are with them. You are all my brothers, sisters, and siblings. We are rebels, we need to walk the walk if we’re gonna talk the talk :+)

Black lives matter, always have. Always will.

Love, peace, and strength to all of you and your families at this difficult time for us all, worldwide.

Beth
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MrTexas (Chris Hummel)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really am listening. I dont want to appear as though I am not.
I do try and respond to criticism and I do adapt to it well. I have had teams in the past when I was last LPRO to help with things like this but often the blunt of the work that I do is approving (or not approving) PR material like logos. It gets very boring at times and not everyone wants the job I have or being an assistant.

We do have a meeting tonight about what next step to take and it will be more in line with how you all feel here. We all still have lives to live outside the Legion though and I dont want to just go forth on my own. When others are available away from work and travel tonight we will have a sit down and discuss things. Myself, the members of my team, the LCO and LXO, members of the Legion Council and hopefully members of the new team we are getting together will talk about the steps to take next.

As a Legion we have always been inclusive. We dont ever want to disclude ANYONE for how they think. Sometimes members will not be aligned at all on issues when they join, but after being a part for awhile they grow into fuller people and can understand the struggle that others face and they do not.

Our process is a little slower than most. We arent a large corporation and we arent nearly as active or as large as the 501st. All we can ask for is patience while we get the right people in who can best put forward what we want to do, and be assured, we are doing it.
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naberrie ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larirenshadow wrote:
Beth, it's a personal opinion on how I feel. There are political issues that are my shared experience but anything I say on this feels like a white girl telling people how to feel. Should I educate people I know? Yes but I can do so by sharing what others have said. Maybe I wasn't clear in how I said it.

You do make good points but for the CS comment that would require the current LCO to basically put new people in positions after having chosen who should be in LCS. We have to assume the people in CS are the best qualified. The suggestion of the additional group is to ensure everyone's voice is heard without the added pressure of a full Legion level position.

Plus it's people wanting to be involved and helping giving them a voice while not fully taking on a leadership role they may not want to take.


No, I totally understand, i hope nothing I said was taken as an attack or anything. I totally understand how you feel about sharing things is your personal opinion, and I have no right to tell you how to share that :+) my comment about ‘speaking up but being imperfect is more effective than nothing at all’ was generally meant more as an encouragement and general statement for other members. Not anythin to disrespect you or your stance! Just wanted to clarify as I think everythin you said was valid, and wasn’t trying to discount your feelings, typing on a wee phone quickly and it might not have came across completely how it was intended. Just what I found is most effective and useful

I totally get adding an additional group may be good to add some diversity in the viewpoints shown and the intentions are good, i just think it might be a topic to visit next election though with the topic of empowering people to try running for new roles if they feel so inclined. Your point about a middle ground without having to take too many additional responsibilities is actually something I hadn’t considered. Smile

Best to you and yours,
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nick007 ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:59 pm    Post subject: Black Lives Matter Reply with quote

I personally don't care for anybody who is "offended" by the phrase
Black Lives Matter. In fact, I don't give a damn about the feelings of those offended by it.

Disappointing and unfortunate to see this.
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AladdinMark ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrTexas wrote:
I really am listening. I dont want to appear as though I am not.
I do try and respond to criticism and I do adapt to it well. I have had teams in the past when I was last LPRO to help with things like this but often the blunt of the work that I do is approving (or not approving) PR material like logos. It gets very boring at times and not everyone wants the job I have or being an assistant.

We do have a meeting tonight about what next step to take and it will be more in line with how you all feel here. We all still have lives to live outside the Legion though and I dont want to just go forth on my own. When others are available away from work and travel tonight we will have a sit down and discuss things. Myself, the members of my team, the LCO and LXO, members of the Legion Council and hopefully members of the new team we are getting together will talk about the steps to take next.

As a Legion we have always been inclusive. We dont ever want to disclude ANYONE for how they think. Sometimes members will not be aligned at all on issues when they join, but after being a part for awhile they grow into fuller people and can understand the struggle that others face and they do not.

Our process is a little slower than most. We arent a large corporation and we arent nearly as active or as large as the 501st. All we can ask for is patience while we get the right people in who can best put forward what we want to do, and be assured, we are doing it.



I appreciate that some discussion will be happening. But let me caution against using phrases like "We don't ever want to disclude ANYONE for how they think" Yes, we actually do want to. If you think like a racist then we flatly and resolutely reject you and your opinions. That is the message we want the legion to make. A firm and decisive line in the sand against racism. In this particular case, that stance needs to take the form of supporting Black Lives Matter and the voices of our black members and black people everywhere.
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Gregory ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This.

AladdinMark wrote:

I appreciate that some discussion will be happening. But let me caution against using phrases like "We don't ever want to disclude ANYONE for how they think" Yes, we actually do want to. If you think like a racist then we flatly and resolutely reject you and your opinions. That is the message we want the legion to make. A firm and decisive line in the sand against racism. In this particular case, that stance needs to take the form of supporting Black Lives Matter and the voices of our black members and black people everywhere.

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jeneyre ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Leadership messes up in this way, here’s what I look for as a first step. An acknowledgment that they messed up, with an apology that takes responsibility without offering excuses. I’m seeing far too many excuses here.


Saying that “We support our members in the black community who are out peacefully protesting” strikes me as saying we support ONLY those who peacefully protest. White people have absolutely no place to judge or determine how Black people react to hundreds of years of racism and systemized oppression. It also suggests that protests are only valid if they remain perfectly peaceful, despite provocation by authorities and attacks on unarmed peaceful protesters. Despite attacks on medics, reporters, children, the elderly, and pregnant individuals.



“As to why we went with this statement, we felt it was not neutral but a statement that everyone could get behind no matter what. We really did not anticipate so many people being upset that we stood against racism but didnt include a hashtag.”

We can do so much better than being merely “not neutral.”


“The hard truth of it is that we have several members that would feel attacked if we had used such a hashtag.”

Good. They should feel attacked. If racism TRULY has no place in the Rebel Legion, those who do not recognize and acknowledge that Black Lives Matter should have no place here.


“We do have a meeting tonight about what next step to take and it will be more in line with how you all feel here.”

How you all feel here? How about “more in line with what is morally and ethically RIGHT?”


“As a Legion we have always been inclusive. We dont ever want to disclude ANYONE for how they think. Sometimes members will not be aligned at all on issues when they join, but after being a part for awhile they grow into fuller people and can understand the struggle that others face and they do not.”

Oh I absolutely want to exclude RACIST individuals. Being racist is not “being aligned” on an “issue.” This statement implies that we should welcome racists in to the legion and then work to help them be not racist while they are trooping. Absolutely not.
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space_mom ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don’t think we can cater to “several members who might feel attacked” by a statement of Black Lives Matter. I’m thinking more about the Innocent people being killed.

I’m copying and pasting here the email I sent from which I’ve yet to receive a reply.


Dearest Rebel Friends,

We love you. We believe the best about you. We are deeply saddened that you’ve chosen a passive stance in this civil rights movement that is Black Lives Matter. We urge you to follow the example of Lucasfilms and take a bold stance. If you are not willing to do that, we urge you to reach out to our black brothers and sisters for guidance in this decision.

One powerful movement that is happening right now is the stance of #mutedbutlistening. Perhaps the command team would benefit from taking the next few days to follow #blacklivesmatter and learn more about the oppression in which we are fighting against. There is no grey are here.

I was told when I reached out on Facebook that you’ve chosen the least controversial route. We understand that normally the RL is meant as a fun way to escape reality but this evil we are facing can’t be ignored. Maybe it’s not a time to escape. Maybe it’s time to use our love for something real.

In the words of the youngest member of our crew, my fourteen year old daughter: We’re supposed to be the rebel legion, we shouldn’t be afraid to rebel and speak out for what is right. It’s wrong that it’s controversial to think people shouldn’t die and we shouldn’t be afraid to speak up about that. It’s not easy, but nothing worth doing ever is. We’re supposed to be rebels and heroes, it’s time we start acting like ones.

We have hope that you will open your hearts and hear the cries of the many voices speaking out about this.

With love,
Space Mom (AKA Sarah)
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MrTexas (Chris Hummel)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see it differently. If someone has racist feelings, its because they are ignorant.
I see it as a curable disease. The only way to lessen the amount of racist people in the world is to educate and inform them. If you just got rid of every person that didnt think the way you did, there would never be any change in the world.

Ive seen it happen MANY times. THe military is a great example. As is when I worked in the construction world.

I have been to towns so small that they wont even show up on most maps but some company decides to open a refinery there. All the good ol boy locals show up to work, having never left their home towns. Now the company I worked for was extremley divers, we actually only had about 4 white men working for us and the other 40 or so were black men or hispanic.

THe good ol boys by the end of those jobs had realized that everyone is a person and racism and descrimination was stupid.

Even with technology today, the world is still a small place. There are people that still do not know how the world works. I feel it is up to us as an accepting group to show them that they can change and they are welcome to be included as well.
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naberrie ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AladdinMark wrote:
I appreciate that some discussion will be happening. But let me caution against using phrases like "We don't ever want to disclude ANYONE for how they think" Yes, we actually do want to. If you think like a racist then we flatly and resolutely reject you and your opinions. That is the message we want the legion to make. A firm and decisive line in the sand against racism. In this particular case, that stance needs to take the form of supporting Black Lives Matter and the voices of our black members and black people everywhere.


Absolutely everything Mark said very eloquently here. Along with Jen’s message too. Why cater? Why value non-black feelings, over black lives.

Everything I have said, I have said with the hope we will do better. I await and see what comes from this meeting with anticipation, and a wish for us to do better. Please don’t prove our hopes and expectations of this club to be completely futile.

Love n light
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is very easy to say that we should welcome racists if you are not the one being targeted by racists. It is not the obligation of POC to welcome and re-educate those who want to harm them.
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naberrie ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrTexas wrote:
I see it differently. If someone has racist feelings, its because they are ignorant.
I see it as a curable disease. The only way to lessen the amount of racist people in the world is to educate and inform them. If you just got rid of every person that didnt think the way you did, there would never be any change in the world.

Ive seen it happen MANY times. THe military is a great example. As is when I worked in the construction world.

I have been to towns so small that they wont even show up on most maps but some company decides to open a refinery there. All the good ol boy locals show up to work, having never left their home towns. Now the company I worked for was extremley divers, we actually only had about 4 white men working for us and the other 40 or so were black men or hispanic.

THe good ol boys by the end of those jobs had realized that everyone is a person and racism and descrimination was stupid.

Even with technology today, the world is still a small place. There are people that still do not know how the world works. I feel it is up to us as an accepting group to show them that they can change and they are welcome to be included as well.


Chris, I totally agree with you. People can be educated by experiences and others, peoples feelings can change and their intentions can become better. However as grown adults with access to resources, that’s their responsibility. It’s not ours to pander to or baby. If they have an issue with something that should not be a controversial statement, that’s theirs to take up privately or try and learn about. It’s their responsibility to hear ‘black lives matter’, research, listen, and grow. It’s not our job to work around people who are resistant to change. Rebels represent, rebels fight for those who need it. As said above me, it is very easy to say we should welcome those with racial biases, when you are not the one threatened or at risk, because of those racial biases. We shouldn’t prioritise non-black feelings or discomfort, over black peoples lives and reality.

All the best,
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nick007 ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:28 pm    Post subject: Black Lives Matter Reply with quote

MrTexas wrote:
I see it differently. If someone has racist feelings, its because they are ignorant.
I see it as a curable disease. The only way to lessen the amount of racist people in the world is to educate and inform them. If you just got rid of every person that didnt think the way you did, there would never be any change in the world.

Ive seen it happen MANY times. THe military is a great example. As is when I worked in the construction world.

I have been to towns so small that they wont even show up on most maps but some company decides to open a refinery there. All the good ol boy locals show up to work, having never left their home towns. Now the company I worked for was extremley divers, we actually only had about 4 white men working for us and the other 40 or so were black men or hispanic.

THe good ol boys by the end of those jobs had realized that everyone is a person and racism and descrimination was stupid.

Even with technology today, the world is still a small place. There are people that still do not know how the world works. I feel it is up to us as an accepting group to show them that they can change and they are welcome to be included as well.





I am not interested in making friends with racists and trying to "cure them". By age 25 the frontal lobe of the brain (the rational sense of someone) is done developing. If someone hasn't seen the light by then, they can be racist somewhere else.
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