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Black Lives Matter Support
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Swedish Stardust ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mark & Beth for putting words to my exact thoughts.

Also- deleting comments on Instagram requesting the very same thing... how incredibly inaporopriate- that certainly isn’t inclusive in any way!

Do over- do better- BLM!
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naberrie ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larirenshadow wrote:
Very well said everyone, much better than I could have said anything.

On that most of the time I feel like I can't quite articulate how to encourage people to action because I feel like my privilege gets in the way. I get it, I'm a white girl and while I do worry about how things are progressing because of historical events that would effect me I know that it pales in comparison to what members of the Black Community, Latinx Community, LGBTQIA+ Community, and many other communities experience on a day to day basis.

I feel that the CS at the moment is very white, male based and might not entirely know how to give a statement. I'm not excusing them, I'm saying I truly think they thought this was the right statement.

We need to say more. At the very least we should have said Black Lives Matter.

We do need to make a powerful statement and make it within the Legion itself. I've met members who were told because they're POC they can't costume "main" characters unless it matches their skin tone. That isn't right. We praise inclusivity (that is spelled wrong? I hate spelling) and then tell perspective members that?

Let's take action. Would it be possible to form a group that would be able to work with CS and be able to not only create an internal dialogue but also make forward facing posts with statements and guiding members to organizations to donate to or how best to look up a protest in their area? The majority of the group should be non white. While anything I can say is great it feels almost preachy coming out of my mouth as, again, it's not my shared experience and there are people who are much better qualified than I am to educate people on this.


Jen, I totally get why you might be hesitant to speak. And your response was very thoughtful. I just wanna take a wee second to say to other non-black members outside of us both, that hesitation to speak or saying nothing out of fear of being ‘wrong’ is less effective than saying something not completely correct, then learning to do better. Anything in support, even if it is imperfect, is better than nothing said at all. We can all learn, educate ourselves further, and grow on matters we don’t experience personally. But showing support, however anxiety-inducing, is the first step. We just have to make sure we aren’t speaking over black peoples voices on a black issue. They will always have the most accurate perspective and most valuable opinion, specifically on BLM. Same as we cannot speak above or louder than the LGBTQ+ community on LGBT issues, we have to listen to those who experience it. However an imperfect personal show of support, is still a show of support.

I totally agree with trying to do something more proactive. I too have met people within our organisation who have been urged away from certain face characters as the race isn’t ‘compatible’. That needs to change.

On your note of command staff being mostly white men, and that the statement may have come across slightly tone deaf by accident as they don’t have the personal experience to be critical of it. I totally agree with that. However to me, a separate group of diverse people the CS can ‘check in’ on their statements with, seems kind of superfluous. Why not just elect more diverse command staff? Why do we not make a more concerted effort to encourage our non-white members and lgbtq+ members to have the confidence to run for CS posts? Then the statements would be written with care and consideration of everyone’s feelings initially, because diverse viewpoints would all create it, rather than a group of people with similar experiences. Which I think is where the issue lies with our current RL statement. A reason some POC within our membership may not have the confidence to run, would be this exact reason. PR and CS is afraid to take a really solid stance and support movements which would better their lives. Eventually that will make you feel unheard by an organisation they give so much to, sadly Sad

Nothing said with any argumentative tone either! Just my thoughts in relation to Jen’s, and as always anyone is free to disagree or discuss further. I’m also really glad to see everyone’s input and vocal support, and also really proud of our membership and organisation for keeping it so non confrontational and considered. keep fighting. For both our members, and our community.

all the best,

Beth
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Jerrick Sunrunner (Mark Mulcaster)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s really good that there are members from all over the globe who are speaking up about this.
You’ve raised very good points written in a far more articulate way than I could.
As a member of base staff it’s vitally important that we listen to the members, and that equally goes at legion level.

We should never feel embarrassed to reach out to our members who may have a better understanding or be more in touch on specific topics and be willing to be say we may of gotten things wrong and rectify that.

I applaud the members who have spoken up.

Having a non-command centric panel of members who could help advise on matters of diversity and equality would in my opinion be a very positive and proactive step forward.
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Larirenshadow (Jen)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beth, it's a personal opinion on how I feel. There are political issues that are my shared experience but anything I say on this feels like a white girl telling people how to feel. Should I educate people I know? Yes but I can do so by sharing what others have said. Maybe I wasn't clear in how I said it.

You do make good points but for the CS comment that would require the current LCO to basically put new people in positions after having chosen who should be in LCS. We have to assume the people in CS are the best qualified. The suggestion of the additional group is to ensure everyone's voice is heard without the added pressure of a full Legion level position.

Plus it's people wanting to be involved and helping giving them a voice while not fully taking on a leadership role they may not want to take.
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MrTexas (Chris Hummel)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are all pretty much spot on. We are afraid to say too much.

Being in Legion command is not an easy task. Very few step up to the plate and run for these elections. Most are afraid of the backlash from the community when they do something wrong, and for good reason, it happens. A lot.

Every single thing we do is scrutinized. For that, we try to generally stay as neutral as possible on as much as we can. I am pretty decent at these statements as I write most of them myself. I always have others look over them before posting them and get approval from others but its usually a general contentness from both "sides".

As to why we went with this statement, we felt it was not neutral but a statement that everyone could get behind no matter what. We really did not anticipate so many people being upset that we stood against racism but didnt include a hashtag.

The hard truth of it is that we have several members that would feel attacked if we had used such a hashtag. While we in command may not agree with a group, we still have to take into account that we have a lot of members that feel a certain way. The media has done a lot of damage in regards to groups like BLM and we did not want to just throw it out there and have them feel insulted.

We are instead forming a team to help resolve years of media inaccuracies within the Legion. We dont have a name for this group yet, nor all the members, but we feel we have a strong leadership for it growing and are having zoom chats on what to do.

Some things we are hoping for is to push for more diversity in command positions. This of course will not be a guarantee as they are elected positions, but we want to get people who are qualified to get out and run.
I have started talking with the team at http://galaxyofcolor.com/ to get them more involved in how we do things in the Legion with regards to people of color. We will have a representative of the Pride Squadron as well on the team and a rep from Ladies of the Legion.

We are doing more than you think, but we do not like to make promises before we have something solid in the works. Please continue to keep the discussions going and soon we will hash out a few things from the new team and have them make a statement on behalf of the Legion.
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positivespace (Cheryll)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe ask yourself why protecting the feelings of people who are offended by the phrase "Black Lives Matter" is so important.

And if you're one of the people offended by that statement then you're part of the problem.

That answer did not spark any confidence that you understand what this movement is about or what Black people and POC are trying to accomplish with it.
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QuiGonJyn ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrTexas wrote:
We really did not anticipate so many people being upset that we stood against racism but didnt include a hashtag.

The hard truth of it is that we have several members that would feel attacked if we had used such a hashtag. While we in command may not agree with a group, we still have to take into account that we have a lot of members that feel a certain way. The media has done a lot of damage in regards to groups like BLM and we did not want to just throw it out there and have them feel insulted .


Minimizing the Black Lives Matter movement as just “a hashtag” really summarizes how blind some people are to this issue. People are dying. Our Black members are at risk every day. And we’re worried about upsetting people who don’t think that Black people don’t deserve to killed in the streets? Do these people really need to be in our Legion anyway?
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Gregory ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, that's a lot of words trying to excuse not saying the 3 most important ones.

Black Lives Matter.

Not a hashtag, truth.

MrTexas wrote:
So you are all pretty much spot on. We are afraid to say too much.

Being in Legion command is not an easy task. Very few step up to the plate and run for these elections. Most are afraid of the backlash from the community when they do something wrong, and for good reason, it happens. A lot.

Every single thing we do is scrutinized. For that, we try to generally stay as neutral as possible on as much as we can. I am pretty decent at these statements as I write most of them myself. I always have others look over them before posting them and get approval from others but its usually a general contentness from both "sides".

As to why we went with this statement, we felt it was not neutral but a statement that everyone could get behind no matter what. We really did not anticipate so many people being upset that we stood against racism but didnt include a hashtag.

The hard truth of it is that we have several members that would feel attacked if we had used such a hashtag. While we in command may not agree with a group, we still have to take into account that we have a lot of members that feel a certain way. The media has done a lot of damage in regards to groups like BLM and we did not want to just throw it out there and have them feel insulted.

We are instead forming a team to help resolve years of media inaccuracies within the Legion. We dont have a name for this group yet, nor all the members, but we feel we have a strong leadership for it growing and are having zoom chats on what to do.

Some things we are hoping for is to push for more diversity in command positions. This of course will not be a guarantee as they are elected positions, but we want to get people who are qualified to get out and run.
I have started talking with the team at http://galaxyofcolor.com/ to get them more involved in how we do things in the Legion with regards to people of color. We will have a representative of the Pride Squadron as well on the team and a rep from Ladies of the Legion.

We are doing more than you think, but we do not like to make promises before we have something solid in the works. Please continue to keep the discussions going and soon we will hash out a few things from the new team and have them make a statement on behalf of the Legion.

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MrTexas (Chris Hummel)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your right, I dont fully understand. Im a middle class white guy.

Thats the reason the team is being formed.

I cant say that they shouldnt be in the legion. I wont really ever say that about anyone. I dont think they are racist, they may just see things in a different and ill informed way. Disregarding people for not understanding things is never the answer. Helping them to understand is.
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Gregory ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly.

QuiGonJyn wrote:

Minimizing the Black Lives Matter movement as just “a hashtag” really summarizes how blind some people are to this issue. People are dying. Our Black members are at risk every day. And we’re worried about upsetting people who don’t think that Black people don’t deserve to killed in the streets? Do these people really need to be in our Legion anyway?

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Roark ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="MrTexas"
The hard truth of it is that we have several members that would feel attacked if we had used such a hashtag. While we in command may not agree with a group, we still have to take into account that we have a lot of members that feel a certain way. The media has done a lot of damage in regards to groups like BLM and we did not want to just throw it out there and have them feel insulted.


Anyone who would feel attacked is someone we don’t want in the legion.
That’s white privileged, I’m sure there are many POC members who feel attacked by the lack of support, but that’s not being prioritized.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no sides in this issue save for two. Racist or Anti Racist. Trying to toe a neutral line here only serves to minimize and attack those who are needing support the most right now.

I urge the Legion to reconsider it's position here. There is still time for acknowledgment of a mistake and corrective actions.

Let me make it clear though, though this discussion post, the issues with the original legion statement and need for a genuine statement have been explained. At this point there is no longer any tolerance for ignorance of the situation and can no longer be used as any excuse for inaction or half measures.

I want to know that I'm part of an organization that stands up for what is right. Am I?
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Larirenshadow (Jen)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does the group have to be out of the Legions? I understand having groups where members of all clubs can discuss and feel safe but to be honest that's excusing the Legions of any responsibility.

We should have an all club version but also specific to each club so that the clubs themselves can be held accountable and grow.
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RebelinPaisley ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrTexas wrote:
Your right, I dont fully understand. Im a middle class white guy.

Thats the reason the team is being formed.

I cant say that they shouldnt be in the legion. I wont really ever say that about anyone. I dont think they are racist, they may just see things in a different and ill informed way. Disregarding people for not understanding things is never the answer. Helping them to understand is.


Helping to them understand would be sped along by taking a firmer stand on this issue. Black Lives Matter is not just a hashtag. This is not a matter of debate.
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Fraktilfilth ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wholeheartedly agree with the statements from Beth and Mark.
This is absolutley a human rights issue and not a political one.
I dont understand how people can be upset by the BLM hashtag. The general counter seems to be ALM which i dont seem to recall ever seeing before BLM hit the scene. Their humanitarian efforts must have flown under my radar.
If people feel attacked by that hashtag i am open to an adult conversation
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