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[Rewrite] Blue Squadron X-Wing Pilot
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StardustScavenger ()
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: [Rewrite] Blue Squadron X-Wing Pilot Reply with quote

This rewrite is based on the current standard, original discussions, and rewrite guidelines. All feedback and recommendations are welcome. Please provide reference photos or reasoning for your change if possible. I will update this first post with changes as they are discussed. Thanks for the help!

**Updated with comments through 5/31/2020**

Standard Name: Blue Squadron X-Wing Pilot
Primary Detachment: Starfighter Command
Submission Date: 
Existing Standard URL: http://newsite.rebellegion.com/blue-squadron-x-wing-pilot/

Front Image
URL: 
Source: 

Back / Second View Image
URL:
Source: Movie Still
  
Character Description
Blue Squadron was an air speeder and starfighter squadron that served as part of the Rebel Alliance's starfighter corps during the Galactic Civil War. The squadron most notably participated in battles such as the Battle of Scarif, Siege on Tureen VII, the Battle of Hoth and the Battle of Endor. The members were skilled pilots, and wore unique blue flight suits during the early stages of the war. (Source: Wookieepedia)

Required Items

Flight Suit
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• Petroleum blue one-piece flight suit/coveralls
• Fabric has a slight sheen  (such as acetate or bomber silk) with sufficient weight to create a puffy look
• Contrasting top stitching in a beige-colored thread
• Front zipper is hidden by a strip of the same material as the flight suit
• Sleeves have knife pleats from the bottom of the collar to the wrist
• Each pleat is approximately 1/2″/1.3 cm wide
• Pleats are made of an off-white fabric of similar material to that of the suit, a shade darker than the color of the flak vest
• The pleating is inset with piping along the edges
• The strip of pleats is approximately 3″/7.6 cm wide
• Collar closes at the front
• Collar is padded and has a horizontal gray/silver zipper along the sides and back to create the appearance of a hidden hood.
• Commpad pocket on left sleeve with an open“window” sits above the wrist and is made of the same fabric as the suit
• There are two chest pockets with curved openings that wrap around the sides of the torso, one on each side
• There are two upper thigh pockets with curved openings, one on each leg
• The wearer's right front thigh has a cargo-style knee pad pocket with a rectangular frame at the top and a bottom flap with blue/dark gray webbing pull tab
• There is a charcoal/dark gray vertical, rectangular pocket on the wearer's left front thigh approximately 4"/10.2 cm tall and 2.5"/6.35cm with a vertical gray/silver zipper
• Rectangular shaped pocket on the lower portion on the outside of each leg with horizontal gray/silver zipper at the top
• There is a charcoal/dark gray vertical, rectangular pocket at the center of each leg that reaches down to the bottom of the pant leg with a vertical gray/silver zipper
Optional Details
• Collar closes at the front with two snaps
• There are two grommets on the front of the suit with pull strings through them at the waist
• Right front thigh cargo-style knee pad pocket has a side pen pocket

Flak Vest
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• Flak vest consists of a front and back panel made of a white or off-white material (ballistic nylon or similar fabric)
• It is contoured to fit over the chest and back where the two panels are of a similar shape and size
• The two panels are connected together by straps approximately 2”/5 cm over the shoulder
• The flak vest is proportional to the wearer
• The bottom of the panels are approximately even and cover the chest extending approximately 3"/7.62 cm past the armpit
• The panels cover approximately half of the torso with significant flight suit visible between the belt and panels 
• Both panels have a series of horizontal ribs created by inserting 0.25″/.65 cm tubing (or similar sized material) through fabric tubes prepared for the tubing.
• Ribs are separated from each other by a space that is the same width as a finished rib
• The two panels connect at the bottom sides with straps of 1” webbing similar in color to the vest using a strap adjuster style buckle
• Front Panel:
      - The top of the front panel sits just below the collar
      - There are two equally spaced rib sat the top (near the collar)
      - Immediately below the two top ribs,there is a flat wide area with approximately 8 horizontal rows of top stitching that is approximately 0.25″/.635 cm apart, for a total of approximately 2”/5 cm of flat area
      - Remainder of front panel contains a minimum of 8 ribs that continues to the bottom edge of the front panel
• Back Panel:
      - The top of the back panel sits approximately even with the top of the front panel
      - The back panel has approximately 13 equally spaced ribs at the top proportional to wearer
      - There is a gap approximately 1.25”/3.18 cm with a track for webbing and the center open showing approximately 4"/10.16 cm of webbing
      - There are 2 ribs below the gap
Optional Details
• Back panel webbing has a strap adjuster style buckle

Chest box
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• Gray rectangular box made of a hard, smooth material 
• There is a silver hollow disc, approximately 0.6"/0.15 cm in diameter at the top of the chest box
• Left side of box has a black vertical rectangle with small vertical rectangle cutout on the left side
• There is a white 0.125"/0.318 cm pinstripe border off center to the right
• The rectangle has 2 white, acrylic or similar material 1"/2.54 cm square buttons at the top inside the pinstripe
• There is a metal or metal-like silver round disc with cone knob, approximately 1"/2.55 cm in diameter, centered vertically on the black rectangle and off center to the right horizontally
• There is a metal or metal-like male silver snap, approximately 0.5"/1.27 cm in diameter, vertically below the knob and centered horizontally
• There is a white 0.125"/0.318 cm pinstripe square in the upper right of the chest box
• The square has 3 acrylic or similar material 1"/2.54 cm square buttons with white in top left, and blue on the right top and bottom
• There are 3 rocker switches below the square.
• The rockers are white, gray, white in order.
• White rockers have a black dot centered on the top portion of the rocker
• Gray rocker has a black dot centered on the bottom portion of the rocker
• Rocker switches have separation between them
• There are 2 channels in the grey box below the white rocker switches 
• Approximately 1″ – 1.25″/2.5-3 cm diameter ribbed grey hose. One end attaches at the left-bottom of the chest box and the other end connects to the wearer's left side of the suit above the belt with a black elbow joint
• Chest box is secured around the collar and the back with olive webbing straps
• The strap around the collar has void of fasteners
• The strap around the back has a silver or black “strap adjuster” style buckle in the back and is worn under the flight harness
• Excess strap is either trimmed or otherwise tucked to present a neat appearance
• The bottom edge of the chest box sits approximately 2-3"/5-7.6 cm below the bottom edge of the flak vest

Ejection Harness
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• Made of gray pleated elastic strapping that is approximately 2”/5 cm wide
• Front and back straps extend up the torso under the flak vest with the attachment hidden by the flak vest
• The lower part of the harness falls (or loop) just below the inseam (or crotch area)
• Two loops of strapping are connected to the front-back strapping at the lowest part of the front-back loop and loop around each leg

Belt
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• Belt is a British PLCE or accurate replica belt dyed medium or dark gray
• Worn inside out
• Silver roll-pin buckle in the front center
• Silver-grey webbing loops approximately 1”(inch)/2.5 cm are sewn on left and right sides divided into five loops on each side. The loop webbing is a lighter color than the belt

Rogue One Commpad
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• An accurately-styled Rogue One specific commpad 
• Visible in the commpad pocket of flight suit

Glove Commpad 
URL:
Source: 

Required Details
• White thin rectangular base with teeth on the upper edge, triangular slope, and a red screen or mesh in the center of the slope
• Attached to the gauntlet of the left glove and positioned with the teeth facing to the wearer’s left (little finger side of the hand)

Leg Flare Holder with Rogue One Specific Leg Flares
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• The holder is olive drab or dark gray in color and is made of webbing or fabric
• Running the center of the holder is a thinner strap of the same material sectioned off into eight loops
• Each holder loop contains a leg flare
• Leg flares are silver in color
• Each leg flare is cylindrical in shape, starts off narrower at the top, has a wider portion at the middle, and narrows in at the bottom. Each has a wide ring, and then narrows once again to a flat end
• Holder wraps around either lower leg and is fastened together in the back• The zipper pocket and flight suit at the bottom of the leg is visible below the holder 

Gloves
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• Gray, beige, or black gauntlet gloves in a heavy fabric, suede, or suede-like material
• The gauntlet has five to six lines of pleated stitching going all the way around
• There are four wider pleats on the top of the hand with the first three pleats that are closest to the fingers being the same size but smaller than the lower pleat, which is wider
• There is a small strap attached on the inside top of the wrist behind the thumb

Boots
URL:
Source: 
Required Details
• Boots are black leather or leather-like
• Boots are approximately mid-calf high pull-on style with low heels
• Boots are void of laces or ankle buckles.  Buckles ate the top of the boots are acceptable if covered by blousing the suit legs to hide it
• Black zippers may be visible on the inside of the leg

Optional Items
Your costume must have at least one of the following items:
• X-wing pilot helmet with accurate style and decor. Original Trilogy or Rogue One variations are acceptable.
• Six to ten belt flares that are silver air line hose connector fittings or replicas of similar shape and detail to fit in belt loops. A mix of empty and filled flare loops are acceptable with no more than five flares per side. They are shorter than the width of the belt.

Reference Gallery
https://ibb.co/album/LX97SB
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Last edited by StardustScavenger () on Sun May 31, 2020 10:23 pm; edited 18 times in total
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Baron Flux ()
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I scanned your write up, very nice and detailed.

However, there are a few things that I think should be updated:

1. The pleats are box pleats however, not knife pleats. I know this topic has been the subject of much discussion, but I cannot recall anything in a star wars costume that has a knife pleat.

2. And pretty sure every comm link worn on the glove in R1 have a red screen. Gold screens only appear in ESB that I have been able to find.

Great job! Let's get the discussion going!
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StardustScavenger ()
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baron Flux wrote:

1. The pleats are box pleats

2. comm link worn on the glove in R1 have a red screen.


For reference, I tried not to change many things from the current standard until there was discussion here.

Additionally, the intent of the standards:
"When determining what details should be required or optional, there are a few things to consider. When writing a standard the goal is to provide a baseline minimum for approval. The standard should feel obtainable to costumers with varying skill levels of costume construction while still maintaining a professional appearance. Now what exactly does that mean? It means that costumes for minimal approval do not need to be 100% screen accurate."

Based on this, I would recommend:

1. Eliminating the word "Knife" and leave just "pleats" per the standards guide:
"Sewing Terms: Avoid using “sewing terms.” Standards are for judges not sewing professionals. Basic sewing terms such as hem and pleat are acceptable." Box vs. Knife is nearly indistinguishable to maintain a professional appearance and I cannot find a single photo that clearly shows box pleats.

2. I agree that I've only seen red. The original standard had others and I do not see a discussion about why. I wasn't sure if there were other colors from other media (outside of Rouge One movie) where blue squadron pilots exist, such as battlefront or any graphic novels. If someone can find me a reference I will include other colors, but until then I will change to red on the commpad.
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Ashlyn_Dubreas ()
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched Rogue One the other day and there are no clear shots of the back of the Pilots. So I think we might have to use photos of an approved member's costume.

Edit: Just saw your comment on Facebook. That's great that you have all the photos. I still recon the Rebels should use photos of approved members costumes, that is what the 501st does and is partially why their crl is so great. But anyways for image hosting, Imgur is really good and free. I use it to store all of my trooping and approval photos rather than clogging up my phone storage.

In regards to the glove commpad screen, I have only seen red/red-orange screens. Also what does everyone think of allowing the Battlefront variation with the black gloves?
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StardustScavenger ()
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback!
Possible Back Reference Photo: https://i2.wp.com/caps.pictures/201/6-rogueone/full/rogue-one-movie-screencaps.com-11318.jpg?strip=all

Rebel Legion put out that reference photos should be of screen used / original references unless a high quality reference is not available:
"Detailed shot of the costume item. If a quality reference image of the
item cannot be found, a photo of a member’s costume may be used
and it will be noted that it is a “Member photo”.

I personally don't like member references unless necessary since there are many versions approvable and one costumers reference makes people think it must be that way. Boots for example with or without buckles: sowing the reference and allowing for minor variation is a lot easier than displaying a minor variation and allowing for minor variation from that. I understand when references aren't available, but in that case is the level of detail that a costumer's version shows really necessary? I think it may be good to add these as additional photos, but not the main reference if possible.
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Last edited by StardustScavenger () on Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Baron Flux ()
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want any of this to sound as if I am trying to start an arguement with you, so please read it as informative and not combative. The written word being what it is Smile

" 1. Eliminating the word "Knife" and leave just "pleats" per the standards guide:
"Sewing Terms: Avoid using “sewing terms.” Standards are for judges not sewing professionals. Basic sewing terms such as hem and pleat are acceptable." Box vs. Knife is nearly indistinguishable to maintain a professional appearance and I cannot find a single photo that clearly shows box pleats. "

A. I mostly disagree with this for several reasons. If you do not list the specific style a garment is made, how is anyone supposed to be able or expected re-create it correctly? We are a costuming club, and a special club because we strive to make screen accurate costumes. Virtually every reference picture out there shows them to be box pleats, knife pleats look different. Knife pleats look flat in general. Box pleats, as seen in the films, look puffy because of how they are made. Every picture I have seen, especially of Luke, he has box pleats.

2. I agree that I've only seen red. The original standard had others and I do not see a discussion about why. I wasn't sure if there were other colors from other media (outside of Rouge One movie) where blue squadron pilots exist, such as battlefront or any graphic novels. If someone can find me a reference I will include other colors, but until then I will change to red on the commpad.

A. Totally agreed. R1 comm links on gloves should be grey with red-ish screens.
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Chopper48104 ()
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I mostly disagree with this for several reasons. If you do not list the specific style a garment is made, how is anyone supposed to be able or expected re-create it correctly? We are a costuming club, and a special club because we strive to make screen accurate costumes. Virtually every reference picture out there shows them to be box pleats, knife pleats look different. Knife pleats look flat in general. Box pleats, as seen in the films, look puffy because of how they are made. Every picture I have seen, especially of Luke, he has box pleats."

Hey, out of curiosity, would it be possible to please clarify this point about Luke's box pleats? Luke isn't in Rogue One, let alone in Blue Squadron? I'm guessing you're referring to his snowspeeder jacket here?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough that makes sense.

Am not sure why Luke's snowspeeder jacket is being bought up as that is Luke, a named character. Those sort of costume details for costumes are not taken into account for generic costumes. Also the Blue Squadron flightsuit sleeves are definitely knife pleats, not box pleats. They lie flat instead of being puffy. I also think that describing the type of pleat is not considered a sewing instruction but an important construction detail. A sewing instruction would be if you had instructions on how the pleats should be constructed. Also Luke's jacket has ribbed sleeves not box or knife pleats so not sure why it is being mentioned at all.
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Baron Flux ()
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chopper48104 wrote:
"I mostly disagree with this for several reasons. If you do not list the specific style a garment is made, how is anyone supposed to be able or expected re-create it correctly? We are a costuming club, and a special club because we strive to make screen accurate costumes. Virtually every reference picture out there shows them to be box pleats, knife pleats look different. Knife pleats look flat in general. Box pleats, as seen in the films, look puffy because of how they are made. Every picture I have seen, especially of Luke, he has box pleats."

Hey, out of curiosity, would it be possible to please clarify this point about Luke's box pleats? Luke isn't in Rogue One, let alone in Blue Squadron? I'm guessing you're referring to his snowspeeder jacket here?


Yes, so sorry. I was also writing something up for Snow Speeder jacket and got them mixed in to the same convo., My mistake, though the point still stands.
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StardustScavenger ()
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, Thank you to everyone for the great discussion!

Ashlyn_Dubreas wrote:
Also what does everyone think of allowing the Battlefront variation with the black gloves?

I'm sorry, I realized I didn't respond to this. The draft mentions black gloves as allowed as there is a reference in the Rogue One Visual Guide with black gloves. Are Battlefront gloves different from those? I'm not as familiar.

Visual Guide Reference:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/bf/73/c8/bf73c8a58d9d2dd9fe6610eb22a37a84--star-wars-characters-pilots.jpg

As for the pleat discussion, it seems we have mixed thoughts. So far it seems several agree that we need to be more specific than just "pleats." If that is the case, based on the previous standard discussion that decided on knife pleats and the majority here, I will add back "Knife Pleats." If there is a reference photo from a Blue Squadron flight suit that indisputably displays something else, I am open to making changes.

As we go through, please remember the goal of the new standards are to make the costumes obtainable and not get caught in tiny details. Will the general public notice knife vs box pleats as compared to just pleats?

What should be needed for minimal approval? Are the current blue squadron pilots meeting what you think should be the standard?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all good Baron, mistakes happen. Just had us all confused there for a couple of minutes.

I just realised that this might be a mod/skin for the game. Because the gloves in this pic are the black Imperial gloves. I will check the game when I get home tonight to see if it is a mod or not.

https://images.app.goo.gl/AbRDHMufzMkBkW659
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashlyn_Dubreas wrote:
It's all good Baron, mistakes happen. Just had us all confused there for a couple of minutes.

I just realised that this might be a mod/skin for the game. Because the gloves in this pic are the black Imperial gloves. I will check the game when I get home tonight to see if it is a mod or not.

https://images.app.goo.gl/AbRDHMufzMkBkW659
Yes, that's a fan-made mod for the PC version of Battlefront II.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the person who drafted the standard, I just wanted to add that there are numerous types of pleats, which are explained in this diagram:



The type of pleating on the Rogue One flight suit is a knife pleat.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:
Ashlyn_Dubreas wrote:
It's all good Baron, mistakes happen. Just had us all confused there for a couple of minutes.

I just realised that this might be a mod/skin for the game. Because the gloves in this pic are the black Imperial gloves. I will check the game when I get home tonight to see if it is a mod or not.

https://images.app.goo.gl/AbRDHMufzMkBkW659
Yes, that's a fan-made mod for the PC version of Battlefront II.


Okay all good. Ignore that suggestion then.
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Khazara (Todd Felton)
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all, Hazard Squadron XO here. I have seen approved members' pictures that show leg flare holders created in either olive drab OR GREY; only olive drab is specified above & in the existing published costume resource listing. Should this perhaps be updated to allow grey leg flare holders? I unfortunately cannot locate any canon photos of it.
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