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Jyn Imperial Ground Crew Disguise - Pre-Standards Discussion
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Leia (Vera Campbell)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:07 am    Post subject: Jyn Imperial Ground Crew Disguise - Pre-Standards Discussion Reply with quote

Mods, please move when Rogue Detachment; Defectors/Disguises forum is accessible!

STATUS 08/07/19: Discussing KneePads, Page 3


First post is placeholder for finalized Standard for Proposal. This is such a detailed costume, we need one place to keep the official discussion.

Proposed Outline:

Required Items:

1. Flightsuit/Jumpsuit (Discussion: Pages 1 2 )
2. Armor
3. Batons
4. Belt, Belt Boxes, Buckle
5. Knee Pads (Discussion: Page 3 )
6. Jyn's Boots
7. Jyn's Gloves

8. Jyn's hair and make-up
-Optional: Helmet and pilots cap.


Work In Progress: Draft 08/07/19

1. Imperial Ground Crew Jumpsuit

  • One-piece matte faded/soft black or charcoal gray jumpsuit of a cotton-like bottomweight fabric with a centered zipper. All topstitching is done in a beige, light gray or off-white thread.
  • All major seams are flat-felled in appearance, and topstitched with two lines of stitching approx. 1/4" apart.
  • Chest has two large angled pockets that span between mid-armscye, center front topstitching, and waistband, with a matching parallelogram-shaped piece of fabric above the top edge. Pocket has 3 rows of topstitching, parallelogram has 4. Pockets do not have to be functional.
  • There are approx. 8 rows of evenly spaced vertical topstitching on each side of the hidden zipper opening, with the innermost row meeting below and outlining the zipper. The outermost row sits approximately at the center front of the leg. The length of the stitching stretches from the neck to the ankles.
  • Mandarin collar has 4 rows of topstitching, and is tall enough to reach approximately to the base of the skull. Ends are rounded.
  • Collar has a rounded tab closure approx 1.5" wide which secures left over right.
  • Sleeves are made in two pieces, and have approx. 2" wide wrist cuffs. Cuffs secured with pointed tab closure approx 1.75" wide.
  • There is a silver Imperial Cog patch on both shoulders. Imprinted PVC or rubber like material is recommended.
  • Left sleeve has a double bellow style upper arm pocket with a pointed double tab closure, just below the cog emblem.
  • Left sleeve has a comm pad pocket on the forearm.
  • Right sleeve has no pockets.
  • Fit is relaxed or slightly oversized. The shoulder seam sits forward of the top of the shoulder, and the sleeve caps sit several inches off the shoulders.
  • Ankles have elastic casing that sits at the top of the boot.

    -Optional: -3 Topstitched squares on back yoke
    - Square "vent" in mid-back
    -Topstitched lines center back above waistband


5. Kneepads:


  • Knee pads are a hard black trapezoidal dome with rounded corners, mounted on a black fabric pad.
  • Dome has four round caps, one in each corner.
  • The top strap, on the wider end of the trapezoid, wraps all the way around the leg and connects to the front of the pad.
  • The bottom strap passes through a black metal or plastic buckle on the side of the pad and fastens at the back of the knee.
  • Knee pads are weathered.

    -Optional Details
    Straps may be topstitched with several rows of black topstitching.


6. Boots:


  • Plain dark brown combat boots with two matching leather flaps covering the laces. (Frye brand “Veronica Combat Boots” or similar.) Top flap is held closed with hidden fasteners. Bottom flap is cut out on the outside corners. Both flaps have top-stitching around the edges.
  • Bottom flap of boot has screen-accurate buckle. The buckle’s bail (wire piece) is attached with a loop of leather sewn into the flap. The ‘box’ parts of the buckle are black and the ‘wire’ parts are silver.
  • Boots may have discrete inner zipper.


7. Gloves:


  • Brown finger-less gloves similar to the Black Diamond ‘Stone’ gloves, with the strap altered to remove the logo and replace the Velcro with a snap. Gloves have been weathered darker than the original tan.
  • Straps should be roughly 1″ (2.5 cm) wide and be secured with snaps. Straps have the finger-side corner cut off.
  • Both gloves have a circular detail added to the back of the hand. The left is stitching only. The right has the circle cut out and replaced by two differently toned half circles of darker leather
.
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Last edited by Leia (Vera Campbell) on Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:23 pm; edited 13 times in total
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Leia (Vera Campbell)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's take this one item at a time, given how complicated/detailed the standard for this one will be. Here is a link to the 501st IGC standard: https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:IG_imperial_ground_crew

We will need to change a number of things for Jyn, also I don't believe everything is correct on it, so let's discuss the flightsuit first. I'm going to paste the 501st standard, and highlight a few things to address and we'll go from there: Red is to address, blue is my notes.

501st Standard:

Imperial Ground Crew Suit
• One-piece matte charcoal gray jumpsuit with a front lapped zipper. (Jumpsuit is actually a faded or soft black, propose changing to this. Zipper isn't lapped, it's centered.)
• All topstitching on the suit is done in light gray, beige, or off-white thread.*
• There is a mandarin collar with 4–6 rows of evenly spaced topstitching and an edge-stitched rounded tab closure.
• Collar is high enough for the back top edge to come up to, or just under, the base of the skull. (loose on Jyn)
...o Tab closure wraps all the way around the collar to secure left-over-right.
• A silver Imperial Cog emblem, on a black background, is present on both shoulders.
...o Cog is a physical patch and not an iron-on or thin applique or a rubber-like material.
• Sleeves are two-piece.
• On the left forearm there is a commpad pocket with no flap and a window. (measurements?)
• On the left bicep, below the cog emblem, there is a double bellow style upper arm pocket with double tab closure.
• There are no pockets on the right sleeve.
• Wrist cuffs are secured with (pointed) tabs. (also cuffs around 2" wide)
• Back has a yoke and 2 (action) pleats placed on each side approximately halfway between center back and the side seams.
...o Pleats have 2 rows of (top) stitching.
...o Back yoke is not pleated.
Front has two angled chest pockets with four evenly spaced rows of topstitching and three additional rows of topstitching above the pockets. * (Front has two angled chest pockets that span from the second-to-last row of topstitching to approx. 1" from armscye. Pocket top is even with top of sleeve patch down to waist. The edges have a double row of top stitching. Pocket top has 3 rows of stitching. Above is a 1" angled band with 4 rows of topstitching, may be decorative or a secondary pocket.)
• There is a visible waistband that is half the width of the belt.
• 8*? rows of topstitching are evenly spaced from center front on either side of the zipper. These rows of topstitching continue below the waistband on the pants to the ankle. Outermost row of topstitching approximately aligns with the center front of the leg. (Top stitching continues to inner leg seam.)
• The side seams, center back pants seam, both arm seams, armhole seams, back yoke seam and the shoulder seams on the suit are flat-felled in appearance, and topstitched with two lines of stitching.
+(Bottom of legs have elastic casing)
+Fit Note: Suit must fit loosely in arms and legs on Jyn. Shoulder seam sits a few inches off shoulder.
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Leia (Vera Campbell)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My reference photos (still adding)

Screenshots - Primary Reference
-Behind The Scenes










Promo Images - Primary Reference

Exhibit Pictures - Primary, considering screen used not replica. Note lighting.

Hot Toy Figure - Secondary Reference








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Costumer of the Year - 2010
Current Build Threads: Meadow Gown: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100662
Ceremonial Leia: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=986837#986837


Last edited by Leia (Vera Campbell) on Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:01 pm; edited 3 times in total
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for starting the draft proposal. I am curious as to why you are using the doll as reference for the changes you are suggesting?

As we already know, the doll has several inaccuracies and it is considered a secondary reference and should only be used if there it not enough reference from the actual film costume. That we have plenty of , thankfully. Very Happy

Still a great start!!
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Leia (Vera Campbell)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have dozens (couple hundred, really) more pics to upload and edit, but there are several points on the suit shot sans armor that we can't see clearly, for instance, the front pocket. All the suit vendors make the pocket tiny, and I've seen evidence that I'll share that the pocket on the doll suit is accurate. Also on the doll, is the belting/waist, the seaming at the small of the back, and the weird squares on the back. Until I see evidence that these features don't exist, I think they are worth consideration and study. The doll is a secondary source, screen shots are a primary source. But, this is why I noted I'm still adding photos. I shared the doll first because I was excited to share the suit without the armor on top. Personally, I like to gather all possible images and dissect from there.

Trust me, I approach costume research forensically and can back up everything Smile It'll just take time to get it all posted, capped and labelled.
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Current Build Threads: Meadow Gown: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100662
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Last edited by Leia (Vera Campbell) on Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jabari ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll post this in here, to keep the discussion hopefully all in one place. I've started a Google Doc with my draft...please feel free to leave comments or take what you like and use it. I can also copy it over into this or another thread here, if that works better for everyone.

*EDIT* I'll leave the link, but I'll post each relevant section along with Vera's discussion, to keep the discussion in the same place.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bdzKM_0H3b8CPLZlDIe6pbr-XfYjf_bdRyF82vL0Kwc/edit?usp=sharing

and another image! (from Wookieepedia) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/7/7a/Jyn_Erso_Cassian_Andor_disguises.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190110064548


Last edited by Jabari () on Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the episode of The Star Wars Show where they go to the archives and get out the IGC armor. It's quick, but has some useful info. The armor starts at approximately 3:00. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8fsv6u0-lQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1ExaQMrrbUsPn2UF0pxEE-Fh3wO2dz9vaZveQ1-p9kzh_kKiPlVlYv3Kk
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Leia (Vera Campbell)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's take this a few pieces at a time. Going between the 501st standard with notes and Jabari's standard, I propose the first part of the flightsuit standard as such:

Imperial Ground Crew Jumpsuit


  • One-piece matte faded/soft black jumpsuit of a cotton-like bottomweight fabric with a centered zipper. All topstitching is done in a beige, light gray or off-white thread.


On the Jyn facebook group, we've discussed how the suit is not a charcoal gray, I believe they based that off one of the toys. A lot of the exhibit pictures are under harsh lighting. I've tried lighting tests with the deepest charcoal fabrics and faded black fabrics and the latter matched all lighting conditions, but we can include "deep charcoal gray" in addition to faded black if people prefer. Thoughts?
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Current Build Threads: Meadow Gown: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100662
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Jabari ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it so far. Smile

Here's the full text of my Jumpsuit/Coverall portion, just to make it easier for discussion. I attempted to re-write the 501st's CRL for improved readability, and to make it more in line with the style of Rebel Legion standards. I also did simplify a few things (and may have forgotten a few!)


Jumpsuit / Coverall

Required Details

- Suit is a one-piece garment made of faded black, matte fabric, with beige or off-white topstitching.
- Mandarin collar has 4-6 rows of topstitching, and is tall enough to reach approximately to the base of the skull.
- Collar has a rounded tab closure which secures left over right.
- Sleeves are made in two pieces, and have wide wrist cuffs.
-There is a silver Imperial Cog patch on both shoulders.
-Left sleeve has a double bellow style upper arm pocket with a pointed double tab closure, just below the cog emblem.
- Left sleeve has a comm pad pocket on the forearm.
- Right sleeve has no pockets.
- On each side of the suit’s hidden zipper, there are approximately eight rows of topstitching down the center front of the suit.
- Below the waistband, the central topstitching continues down to the ankles. The outermost row is approximately at the center front of the leg; the innermost is at the inseam. Additional rows of stitching may be added on the inside of the leg to accommodate this.
- The waistband is approximately half the width of the belt.
- The back of the suit has a shoulder yoke.
-Below the yoke, the back of the suit has 2 pleats on each side, approximately halfway between the center back and the side seams, to add ease of movement.
- The side seams, center back pants seam, both arm seams, armhole seams, back yoke seams, and shoulder seams are topstitched with two lines of stitching.
- Suit is weathered / “aged” in appearance.
- Suit is slightly baggy/loose fitting, as it is stolen!

Optional Details**

- Imperial Cogs may be made of a rubber or rubber-like material, with a raised design.
- Two angled chest pockets with several rows of topstitching may be present.


**NOTE: I put the chest pockets as optional, because I hadn't seen any good references and the armor does mostly cover them.
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Leia (Vera Campbell)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jabari wrote:

**NOTE: I put the chest pockets as optional, because I hadn't seen any good references and the armor does mostly cover them.


I've got a few where they are visible, but I think they could get away with just being top-stitched on as decoration, the "pocket" part of it is assumed. It is easier to see on Kent Deezling, though, for sure.

This one's good because you can see the pocket top, and you can see it on the bottom where it goes to the waist.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Answering the question from above about making it "dark charcoal grey or faded black" - that seems fair.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leia wrote:

This one's good because you can see the pocket top, and you can see it on the bottom where it goes to the waist.



Oh wow, I hadn't noticed how long they were before! Excellent picture.

Perhaps the standard could have a line like "Chest pockets may either be functional pockets, or purely decorative" ?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jabari wrote:

Oh wow, I hadn't noticed how long they were before! Excellent picture.


That's why I included the pics from the Hot Toys figure! I saw the topstitched bottom part of the pocket and couldn't account for what it was until I found this:



It's hard to describe this without being too wordy...


  • Chest has large angled pockets that span between mid-armscye, center front topstitching, and waistband. Bottom pocket has 3 rows of topstitching, top pocket has 4. Pockets do not have to be functional.


Suggestions for any wording changes?

Now for the collar:



  • Mandarin collar has 4 rows of topstitching, and is tall enough to reach approximately to the base of the skull. Ends are rounded.
  • Collar has a rounded tab closure approx 1.5" wide which secures left over right.


I don't know where the original standard got the "4-6" rows, it might have been including the topstitching on the closure tab, but I only see 4. I'm just guestimating on the measurement at the moment, what did you guys go with?
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Current Build Threads: Meadow Gown: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100662
Ceremonial Leia: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=986837#986837
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Jabari ()
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, to be a little clearer?

Quote:

  • Chest has two large angled pockets that span between mid-armscye, center front topstitching, and waistband, with a matching parallelogram-shaped piece of fabric above the top edge. Pocket has 3 rows of topstitching, parallelogram has 4. Pockets do not have to be functional.


The parallelogram pieces are kind of the equivalent to the "name tapes" on Jyn's vest, I think.

Quote:

  • Mandarin collar has 4 rows of topstitching, and is tall enough to reach approximately to the base of the skull. Ends are rounded.
  • Collar has a rounded tab closure approx 1.5" wide which secures left over right.


I don't know where the original standard got the "4-6" rows, it might have been including the topstitching on the closure tab, but I only see 4. I'm just guestimating on the measurement at the moment, what did you guys go with?


I feel like the "4-6 rows" is probably an artifact of some discussion on how to make the suit fit differently sized people. I'd probably go with "approximately 4 rows", because I only see 4 as well. The 1.5" measure seems about right, assuming the belt is 2".
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never noticed the length of the pockets! I wish they weren't hidden behind the armor so that I could use them.

In terms of fit on Jyn vs Kent, her belt sits RIGHT below the armor, it doesn't have much of a gap, like on Kent. This photo shows velcro for where the belt should go -- I'm guessing the bottom stitching of the pocket is hidden by the belt. maybe the length could be optional?

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