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custom fabrics
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Landeaux (Paul Land)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: custom fabrics Reply with quote

I'm looking to get a custom fabric done that has a 3-D design on it. Any information on companies that do custom fabrics would be appreciated. Thank you for y'alls time.
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Naergi ()
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 3D design can be achieved using several methods:

First, you're looking for a real threedimensional design. As in, you can touch and *feel* that it's threedimensional. This can be achieved in various ways; like, for example, by embroidering (and I mean *thick* embroidery, as in embroidering over foam, then tearing off the pieces that stick out from the embroidery); then of course there's voided velvet, or puffy paint, and last not least the fabric could be embossed with a threedimensional design.
In this case you're looking for a weaving or embossing company.

Second, there's the possibility of a fabric that *looks* threedimensional from a distance (ten foot rule), which is printed with shading - an optical illusion - but, when touched or looked at from a very short distance, it's "just" twodimensional.
I've created designs like that for others and made them available through my Spoonflower store so they can have them printed on fabric - such as, for example, the fabric that was used on Mas Amedda's cloak; I have a preview of that design here - left: My optical illusion design of the 'Bishamon Kikko' design on the cloak (which is actually a traditional Japanese design); right: original fabric from an exhibit photo).

What exactly are you looking for, and is it really supposed to be threedimensional or is it just supposed to *look* threedimensional?
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Landeaux (Paul Land)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking into a real 3d design, but your answer brings up a question. The standards say the fabric is textured, so would an optical illusion print be acceptable?
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Naergi ()
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would probably depend on the costume.

For example, many Jedi tunics / tabards require a 'textured', as in 'crinkled', fabric.
To imitate that with an optical illusion print would be plain wrong because those crinkled fabrics are obtainable, and not difficult to obtain.

On the other hand, some brocades and 'weird' weaves (like the Mas Amedda cloak) are almost unobtainable with the correct patterns. Same for some embroidered fabrics, on which the embroideries basically form the texturing.
For those I'd say that the optical illusion prints are acceptable - BUT - again, it depends on the costume.

If you could tell me which costume's fabric you're looking for, I could tell you if an optical illusion print would be acceptable, or if there's an already existing threedimensional fabric to use for it.
I do know many fabrics (fibers and weaves) as well as sources to obtain them; and sometimes you just can't seem to find a particular fabric because you don't know the name of the weave and / or fiber(s) used for a fabric Wink
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Landeaux (Paul Land)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chancellor Palpatine eps 3 (chancellor's office) is one I am looking at, also eps 2 possibly.
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Naergi ()
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landeaux wrote:
Chancellor Palpatine eps 3 (chancellor's office) is one I am looking at,


There are three for the chancellor's office:
- The bronze robe is made from washed taffeta (inner robe), a satin weave - probably Duchesse silk (sash), shirred two-tone silk velvet (outer robe) and a 'pebble' textured matelasse or jacquard (for the sleeve lining).
- The red one with the sculpted sleeves with an undertunic / pants made from wool twill, the weird 'textured' sleeves / cross-front middle part is made from a heavy wool bouclé but could also be substituted with a cloqué weave fabric, and then there's the outer tunic made from geometric red brocade (for which I actually already made an optical illusion design, as you can read in this thread.
- The green velvet one from the deleted scene; that's shirred iridescent moss / dark green taffeta for the under robe body and pleated taffeta of the same kind for the sleeves and the coat is made from silk velvet; the collar is decorated with ribbon embroideries.

See... so far, for those three costumes, only one optical illusion print would be really required if you're going for an accurate fabric pattern; everything else is standard fabrics which are obtainable with just little effort on Google (and a good portion of work of course for the shirred / pleated parts of the costumes - those fabrics don't look like that 'off the bolt'; you have to shirr / pleat them by hand or machine so they look like that) Wink

Quote:
and also eps 2 possibly.

Which one (s)? Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the ones I'm looking at the first from eps 2 and the second eps 3



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Kay_Dee (Kathy)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outer robe texture is nearly like smocking - but not. It seems like it was somehow pressed (heat, chemicals) into the fabric.

here is a close up I took at FIDM:
http://imageevent.com/kay_dee/fidm/sith?p=14&n=1&m=45&c=5&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=2

Another detailed photo: http://imageevent.com/kay_dee/fidm/sith?p=15&b=-1&m=45&c=5&w=4&s=1&n=1&l=0&z=9

Another: http://imageevent.com/kay_dee/fidm/sith?p=33&n=1&m=45&c=5&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=2


I'd think a very fair substitute could be hand smocking fabric to get this 3D box crinkled look. But that is very very time consuming as some of the costumers who have made the Padme velvet smocked Ep II robe know. I really doubt that trying to print on velvet will have the right look/effect. The fabric itself is three dimensional. I've seen pre-crinkled fabrics time to time (example. the silk used on my Padme Family gown is sort of like pre-smocked into a 3D crinkle effect), but not velvet.

I seem to recall Becca came up with an engenius way to sort of faux smock her velet which could actually really be good for this costume. I just can't remember what she said she did. Maybe press sections onto a fusible backing/lining? Wonder if you could play with some techniques like that? Or hand stitch sections to a backing fabric?
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Naergi ()
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kay_Dee wrote:
I really doubt that trying to print on velvet will have the right look/effect.

That's true. It's another example for 'optical illusion print not working'. It's also not required, because the silk/rayon velvet which forms the 'base' of that textured fabric is regularly obtainable and that threedimensional pattern is yet another job that the person who sews the robe has to do.

Quote:
Maybe press sections onto a fusible backing/lining?


That's one possibility; and the best fusible backing to do so is called 'Texture Magic' because it comes with heat shrinking ability Wink

Here is a video how it works and here are some examples of the patterns that can be achieved with it, depending on the pattern you sew into it.
You'd have to experiment with what kind of pattern you have to sew into the fabric with Texture Magic as the backing; but I'm fairly positive that you can achieve a result that's pretty close to what you see on the original costume.
There are also (apparently) "unshrunken" yet 'puffy' squares in that pattern; maybe adding thin craft foam squares in exactly those places on the backside of the silk/rayon velvet before the the texture magic backing is applied could work so the silk/rayon velvet will be kept from shrinking in those 'square' places. You'd have to experiment.
(Why do I recomment the craft foam? Because that's what people use to make embroideries threedimensional - as a layer between fabric and satin stitch embroideries - and it doesn't shrink.)

Of course all the sewing of that 'textured' part should be done with silk thread as upper thread and bobbin, and all this should be done before the fabric is dyed in the two-tone coloring (black for the rayon pile, golden for the silk backing). So when dyeing the velvet, the (silk) thread used for sewing will take up the same color as the silk/rayon velvet backing and, therefore, will become mostly invisible after dyeing.

Another possibility would be to use heat shrinking thread in the bobbin, when sewing the pattern onto the fabric, such as Chizimi Shrinking Thread or Madeira's Heat Reactive Thread.

I think I remember that what Becca did was to use elastic / rubber thread in the bobbin. That's yet another possibility to 'shrink' fabric in places.

And *HI* to Kay_Dee! You'll probably remember me - a year or so ago I pestered you with tons of questions about the color of the Jamillia embroidery thread Mr. Green Turns out I did what you said and joined the bunch of Rebels Wink
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Landeaux (Paul Land)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the outer robe is the same fabric, but with different lining?
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Kay_Dee (Kathy)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naergi wrote:


I think I remember that what Becca did was to use elastic / rubber thread in the bobbin. That's yet another possibility to 'shrink' fabric in places.


I believe that is what is done on the spiral pointy velvet on the black sabe decoy gown. I don't think it's what she did on the blue velvet gown... but if she sees our discussion maybe she can chime in.

Ah wow - you joined and are not an LCJ! Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landeaux wrote:
So the outer robe is the same fabric, but with different lining?


Outer robe = what seems to be shot velvet (i.e. the base fabric for the pile is probably bright gold, the plush pile is very very dark bronze/brownish black) in a 3d smocked effect to get those crinkly wrinkles in the fabric. And yes, it is lined with a different silk fabric (not velvet).

Oh, and when I mention trying to experiment with a fusible interfacing - I'd be curious to experiment with a non shrinkable one too (would need to be a fluid knit interfacing not to make the velvet all stiff.) And just get a small craft iron type thing and work your way up row by row Ironinng a square, then push the fabric to make a ripple, then iron another square down, then push the fabric up against that ironed part to make another ripple. Again, would take a long time but could be so stunning *if it worked* and someone took the time to make such a fab robe!
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Last edited by Kay_Dee (Kathy) on Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Naergi ()
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landeaux wrote:
So the outer robe is the same fabric, but with different lining?

Same fabric as what, as the inner robe? or the sash? No.
I wrote that in my third posting in this thread:

The bronze robe is made from washed taffeta (inner robe), a satin weave - probably Duchesse silk (sash), shirred two-tone silk velvet (outer robe) and a 'pebble' textured matelasse or jacquard (for the sleeve lining).

Interesting enough, when I was at the local fabrics store today, I saw such a 'pebble' textured matelasse - it's just that it was poly and dark blue, so it can't be bleached; otherwise I would have bought it in a heartbeat.

Kay_Dee wrote:
I believe that is what is done on the spiral pointy velvet on the black sabe decoy gown. I don't think it's what she did on the blue velvet gown... but if she sees our discussion maybe she can chime in.


You're right; I was thinking about the black decoy gown.

Quote:
Ah wow - you joined and are not an LCJ! Smile


Well yes... I was asked if I wanted to be a LCJ less than six months after I joined... don't know what the hell I was thinking to become one of the bad guys among the good guys Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naergi wrote:

Well yes... I was asked if I wanted to be a LCJ less than six months after I joined... don't know what the hell I was thinking to become one of the bad guys among the good guys Mr. Green


It can be a good guy role too. Not always easy, but LCJs can be a great help to people too which is a good thing! And nobody could get into the club in the first place without people to photoshop and look at their applications. It's a big job the LCJs have!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landeaux wrote:
So the outer robe is the same fabric, but with different lining?


I'm sorry, what I meant was, is the eps 2 and eps 3 outer robe the same fabric but with different lining?
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