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Which Came First? The Teeth or the Face?

 
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:05 am    Post subject: Which Came First? The Teeth or the Face? Reply with quote

One of the biggest criticisms I see when it comes to the wookiee face sculpt is that the mouth/muzzle isn't deep enough or the mouth ends up being too wide and flat. Now there are already a bunch of sculpt threads, and it seems in almost everyone it goes from life cast, to sculpt, to mask to skull THEN teeth.

Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't it be better to work on the teeth and gums first, then sculpt around it? Not literally (meaning the teeth in the clay LOL) but use them as a reference when sculpting the face? This way you'd have a reference point for approximate shape and depth when it comes to the muzzle/mouth.

From the wookiee resource pages it seems like Chewie has basically the almost same shape and size that humans have (maybe a tad bigger plus fangs). It just seems making the teeth first, or at least just precalculating the size would help on the wookiee face sculpt.

Again, I'm new at this so maybe there is a reason why most folks do the teeth afterward. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:

My hard skull is mostly fiberglass (keep the weight down) with my teeth made from smoothcast 300 (smooth-on)... that are then are glued into place with bondo to smooth the 2 products together.

Do you just airbrush or manually paint the gums (and/or teeth) later to get the right color (pink/redish gums)?
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to gauge the correct size and shape if the teeth without the rest of the head present.

Correctly sculpting the the face is a matter of breaking the sculpt down into shapes and angles. Use the eyes to judge how big something should be. When viewed from the front, draw a vertical line from the corners if chewies mouth to the eyes. What part of the eyes dies that line end on? Look the photo of freeborn punching hair into the mask. You get a good view from below the mask and this helps judge the shape. Just keep cycling through different photos.

For my teeth I cast them tooth shade dental acrylic, then dremeled away the guns, placed them back in the mold and poured in pink dental acrylic.
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GotWookiee wrote:
It's hard to gauge the correct size and shape if the teeth without the rest of the head present.
Now that I'm closing in on starting my sculpt, I totally agree. Sometimes just starting the process helps flush out the questions. It's definitely making more sense now (to do the face first).

GotWookiee wrote:

Correctly sculpting the the face is a matter of breaking the sculpt down into shapes and angles. Use the eyes to judge how big something should be. When viewed from the front, draw a vertical line from the corners if chewies mouth to the eyes. What part of the eyes dies that line end on? Look the photo of freeborn punching hair into the mask. You get a good view from below the mask and this helps judge the shape. Just keep cycling through different photos.

Yep!! As a matter of fact I was just looking at the Wookiee Resource page today and I was using the eyes to gauge forehead size and mouth width. I also like the side view because you can totally see just how far the muzzle comes out from the face (which seems to be a rookie mistake: not making it deep enough).

GotWookiee wrote:

For my teeth I cast them tooth shade dental acrylic, then dremeled away the guns, placed them back in the mold and poured in pink dental acrylic.

I do like the idea of going the dental acrylic route, however like Bob, I'm more familiar with Smooth Cast 300 (and have a bunch of it lying around).

Which leads me to another question: is Chewie's teeth the same "physical size" (excluding the canines of course) as human teeth? Or slightly bigger? I'm going to anticipate the answer: the teeth size will be based off of how wide the mouth becomes. The reason I ask is because I ordered a set of teeth from Monster Makers:

I got these teeth as a "guide" for sculpting my own, but they are only "human sized" hence the question of Chewie's teeth compared to ours.
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SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todzilla wrote:
SoloYT1300 wrote:

My hard skull is mostly fiberglass (keep the weight down) with my teeth made from smoothcast 300 (smooth-on)... that are then are glued into place with bondo to smooth the 2 products together.

Do you just airbrush or manually paint the gums (and/or teeth) later to get the right color (pink/redish gums)?



Once the hard skull was made I drew a line where I wanted the jaw line to go. I literally cut away a section of mouth area of the hard skull where I plan on putting the teeth. I then line up the upper and lower teeth together inside the cut area on the hard skull... then glue them into place using epoxy.

Once the teeth are in place I cut the hard skull on the line that I drew for the jaw. I do it in this order to make sure the teeth are perfectly in line for jaw movement.

I then bondo them in areas needed, and clean it up with dremel/sanding.

For painting I tend to use a brush (old school ) on the teeth, and I only air-brush on the dragonskin mask. For doing the teeth I do a base coat of pink, and work different reds and browns into the gums to get the dirty dog look in the mouth area. For the teeth I base coat the teeth in a bone white, use a few yellow/brown mixtures at the gum line (for tarter)... then Dry brush Bone white to bring back the right look. I use pastels over the Bone white to the teeth (dry brush style) to get them to pop in detail. Once completed I brush a thick layer of clear coat over the teeth and gum area to make them look moist.
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Todzilla ()
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:
For painting I tend to use a brush (old school ) on the teeth. For doing the teeth I do a base coat of pink, and work different reds and browns into the gums to get the dirty dog look in the mouth area. For the teeth I base coat the teeth in a bone white, use a few yellow/brown mixtures at the gum line (for tarter)... then Dry brush Bone white to bring back the right look. I use pastels over the Bone white to the teeth (dry brush style) to get them to pop in detail. Once completed I brush a thick layer of clear coat over the teeth and gum area to make them look moist.

Nice! Sounds like very good detail.

Do you use acrylic hobby paints, or go more of the enamel paints like Testors?
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SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly acrylic hobby paints...
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