About Us Members Unit Listing Events Costuming Resources Forum Contact Us Trading Cards
 

Forum and Costume Controls

   FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  medals.php?sid=b6f3fcf58a95f89ccd963d48091fe280Medals   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in

       
REMINDER: Do not change your e-mail address yourself. Please read this first for why.

ANH Vest: Breaking down the off-the rack versions
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Han Solo and Other Smugglers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
theeviltwin ()
Legion Costume Judge
Legion Costume Judge


Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 355

Medals: 1 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat thread.

Ultimately nothing settles a details question like a screen grab straight from the movie...

I commissioned my ANH vest from Indy (Magnoli) back in 2009. The one pictured on his site and in the picture below is actually my vest. Not only is the "double flap" two separate flaps on that vest but there are even two fully constructed pockets under there (one on top of the other) - even though from the outside there is no way of seeing there is anything other than one! Interestingly if you tuck the lower flap into the pocket, apart from the rip, it then looks like the ripped pocket look too.

My Magnoli vest experiences:
I didn't check the label / washing instructions and just threw it in the washing machine after events with the rest of my washing several times. And it shrank! This turned out to be very fortuitous and gave it that definitive smaller than you would think Solo vest look. I never really appreciated how important fit was to a costume until then.
I punched a hole in the lining of one of my internal pockets. It was my own fault - I shoved a pen in too hard. It is really nice an handy having that lining and pockets, I definitely miss them with my unlined fan club ROTJ vest. In fact my Magnoli ANH is beyond amazingly practical especially at long conventions like SW celebrations. Its ability to store ridiculously huge amounts of stuff while impossibly not looking stuffed out of shape in photos is legendary - and a result of Magnoli's excellent fully functional design and craftsmanship.
I discussed (via email) my measurements, the costume details and the order before I placed it. I explained what I wanted and what I wanted it for. His replies were excellent and quick. If I'm going to send someone hundreds of dollars to make me something, I'm definitely going to want to get some dialogue going with them before parting with my money!
I could be wrong but I believe Magnoli does the prototypes, designs and patterns, then has the ongoing orders made for him (it would be impossible for him to personally make ever order - the volume would be huge!). There is always the remote possibility that a maker doesn't follow Magnoli's instructions to the letter.
Like any maker, Magnoli is free to change his design details any way he wants, and what we know to be accurate changes over time. There is no harm in contacting him before ordering to double check / confirm your requirements and exact details.

I've included those last two "hypothetical" points for two reasons. First they could apply to any maker or purchase. Second, no matter how positive the reviews and experiences, submitting a specific brand does not automatically guarantee approval. I know that those regulars reading this now will already appreciate this, but I just want to make it clear to new potential Han costumers that it doesn't matter who the maker is or who or where you bought it from, all the requirements have to be checked and met in each individual application.

Cheers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Hurricane Sandy Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think the original is actually a rip though... its the end of the flap your seeing and the reason it looks ripped is because of the pocket being baffled... and it sticks out funny. That is why I feel they "tuck" it in there... with the tack point... holding it in place... barely.

my 2 cents...


_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Tucson
Medals: None

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the knowledge that Vader is Luke's father, the horrible truth about the double-flap pocket is sinking in...I don't think there is actually a double-flap.

The photo Havok posted tells the tale. I've seen this shot many times, and just never paid attention to that pocket. Also, the notes Bob included on the screen shot from Docking Bay 94 are telling. The key word is appears to be a second flap. I think Bob is absolutely correct in his opinion of how this pocket is constructed. The flap is sewn down across the top and down the sides. It doesn't lift at all, so if I wanted to reach in and pull out a few credits from this pocket, I would not raise the flap and reach in; I would pull the pocket forward and out from under the flap.

This pulling motion, done often enough and hard enough, would be what leads to it tearing as seen in the photo Havok posted. Because it is torn, the top edge of the pocket is able to sag or fold forward creating the appearance of a second flap. This would also explain why the flap looks disconnected in the Docking Bay 94 shot, because it is disconnected, ripped away from the vest itself. In order to close the pocket, this front edge would then be tucked up into and under the flap above it.

If I'm understanding Bob correctly, he is suggesting that the second flap is actually an extention of the front side of the pocket which is folded over creating a tab to pull on so the pocket can be pulled out from under the flap above it. This may be possible, but if this were the case I would think the flap would be visible in photos of the closed pocket, and it doesn't seem to be. In most of the photos I've seen it looks like there is only one flap when the pocket is closed.

I think the ripped pocket is the better explanation, but in any case, I definitely don't think it is a separate flap or a pocket within a pocket as I had initially thought. It's a neat idea for a "smuggler's vest," but I don't think it is correct. BTW, very nice to have LCJ theeviltwin joining the conversation, welcome. It's very cool to have the history on the Magnoli vest and the explanation of the double-flap seen in that photo.

Just to address a couple of other points raised by eviltwin: the fit of this vest is very important, and he is correct, it really should fit small, almost as if it were a size too small. I don't think this is true of the ROTJ version, but it is certainly the case with this one. Also, with regards to approval, I think any one of the three vests discussed in this thread would be approved according to the standards as they currently exist. There is nothing in the standards about size of pockets, or the space in between them; which are billowed or double-flaps. Only that there must be four pockets on the front, that the crescent moon pocket must be present, and that the little pocket must be on top of the crescent moon pocket. By adding this pocket to the Costumebase version, I would think it would and probably has been approved.

If I'm correct in my understanding of the double-flap issue, or even if Bob is right, either way it is a major blow to the accuracy of the Evolution Props version of the vest. Before we move on to the back side of the vest, I'll post some pictures of the overall front of the Evo vest showing why this is. Until then, keep your friends close, and your blasters closer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Tucson
Medals: None

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, as promised, here are some photos showing the accuracy problems caused by the "double-flap" issue on the Evo vest. Here is a shot showing the Evo vest as it comes out of the package:

[img]
2012-10-12 19.27.07 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

As I said earlier, you can see there are actually two separate flaps, they are completely disconnected, and the one between the upper-left pocket and the lower-left pocket is simply decorative and not functional. This is completely incorrect. In order to remedy this, I removed the single flap and lowered it down over the second one to more closely replicate the look of the Magnoli vest shown earlier. It came out like this:

[img]
2012-09-07 22.39.12 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

With the second flap tucked in, as if covering a concealed interior pocket, you get this:

[img]
2012-09-07 22.39.41 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

It doesn't look too bad, and makes the vest much more accurate, but with the flap lowered down, the whole of the left side comes out like this:

[img]
2012-10-12 19.19.13 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

Now there is far too much space between the pocket on the upper left, and the one below it. Also, the pocket on the lower-left is a little too square in shape; it should be taller, more rectangular, and closer to the bottom edge of the pocket above it. The upper-left pocket on the Evo vest also appears to be a little too large.

FINAL ANALYSIS

When I started this thread, I intended to provide photos of both the Costumebase and Evo versions of the vest, as I own them both, but I can't seem to find the CB version. However, here is a photo from the CB website: (sorry for the low-resolution)

[img]
Han Solo Vest by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

The Magnoli is still the most overall accurate, with regards to pocket size, configuration, spacing, etc. Initially, I had considered the Evo next up, because of the inclusion of the double-flap. However, beacuse of the issues shown above, I would now have to put the Costumebase in second place. It has more overall correct pocket size and placement, billowed pockets all the way around, and is less-expensive than the Evo vest. With the addition of the small pocket on top of the crescent-moon pocket, it would actually be fairly close to the original, and the look of the Magnoli, if not quite to the quality of that garment.

That's about it for the breakdown of the front side of these vests. What do you guys out there think? Evo or Costumebase? Is Magnoli worth the money? Next weekend we'll move on to the backside of the vest, and wrap up the look at these three different versions.

Until then, May the Force be with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Havok69 ()
Active Legion Member


Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 380

Medals: None

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing about the Magnoli vest that doesn't come through in the photos is the quality of construction and obvious durability of the garment. It's a solid piece of clothing; you can tug on the thing while putting it on and taking it off with no worries. (And I do have to contort a bit to get it on and off due to it being correctly undersized.)

I'm sure that the costumebase vest looks the part, but will it last if trooped in a number of times? One thing that I have run into with my Corellian Exports shirt is that the stitching is not as tight and strong as my Magnoli shirt. I prefer the CE shirt due to the fact it's more screen accurate, however I have already ripped the stitches on one arm and the v-neck area. I'm getting pretty good at sewing repairs with that CE shirt!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3003
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Gold Star (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havok69 wrote:
I'm sure that the costumebase vest looks the part, but will it last if trooped in a number of times?


I was trooping in mine modified CB vest ... lot of times during past 3 years ... and vest still in one piece, and no another problems Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Tucson
Medals: None

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptSolo77 here,

Just got back from a run that kept me busy all week, but I have a couple of days between jobs, so I thought I'd check in.

I know that contortion move well Havok, both my Costumbase and Evo vests require the same move to get them on, so it sounds like Magnoli has the fit and sizing right as well.

As far as quality of workmanship, I would have to agree with Blair on this one. I've ordered several costumes from Simon at Costumebase over the years, and have never been disappointed with the fabric or workmanship. His garments wear well. They are not the best quality of fabric, but they are not cheap costume-store items either.

Having said that, the quality is also not at the level of Magnoli's work either. Again, having the Falcon gloves and two pairs of his pants, I know how good his stuff is, and Costumebase is not there. The best way to put it is that Costumebase provides exactly what the name suggests: Costumes. Magnoli makes clothing. His garments are every bit as good as a finely-tailored suit, and I think it shows in the photos Havok has provided.

But again, screen-accuracy is more at issue, rather than quality of workmanship. I do think with slight modification, Costumebase is pretty accurate, and the vest does hold up well.

Blair, if you wouldn't mind, maybe snap some photos of your CB vest and post them up here since I can't seem to find mine. Also, maybe show us some of the modifications you made to yours. Finally, correct me if I'm making any statements about the Costumebase version that are not accurate. Like I said, I'm speaking from what I remember about it. I don't want to give anyone any false information, since the point of the thread is to inform people as thoroughly and correctly as possible about what they are getting for their money.

That's it for now. I'll try to get to the backside of the vest this weekend before I'm out of communication range again.

CaptSolo77 signing out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Tucson
Medals: None

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heading out for another run tomorrow, but before I do, let's take a look at the backside of the ANH vests. We'll start by looking at what we should see:

[img]
Hanbackpic2 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

On the original, we see that the loops share a seam with the rear yoke, that the loops are each separate pieces of fabric individually sewn on, and that the top flap of the rear pocket is directly under the loops. We also see that the pocket is billowed on the sides, but not on the bottom edge.

Here is a shot of the backside of the Evolution Props vest:

[img]
2012-09-07 22.40.13 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

The Evo vest does have the loops sharing the seam with the yoke, and they are individually sewn on. They also seem approximately the correct size and proportion. However, the top edge of the pocket is too far below the loops. It is not directly below them. Also, the entire rear pocket is topstitched down; there is no billowing at all.

The Costumebase version shares all of these same inaccuracies, except the loops are not individual pieces of fabric on the Costumebase version. If I remember correctly, it is one long strip of fabric sewn into loops. Again, correct me if I'm wrong on this. If Blair or anyone else out there has a Costumebase version that they would be willing to photograph and speak to on this thread, by all means feel welcome.

With that, we turn things over once again to Havok to see how the Magnoli version compares to the original. Havok?...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3003
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Gold Star (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will do some photos of mine Costumebase vest soon ... also with comments Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Havok69 ()
Active Legion Member


Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 380

Medals: None

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, Magnoli rocks it. You have four separate loops which line up on the yoke correctly. In addition, there are semi rigid pieces of plastic sewn inside the loops that make them keep their rectangular shape.

The large pocket lines up correctly with the bottom of the loops, and has three squares of velcro to hold the flap closed; one in the middle and two at the ends. The large pocket is also billowed on the sides, but not the bottom.

Here's a picture of the back:



Hey Brian, have you placed your order yet?

Mr. Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Tucson
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you think I've been working so hard lately? I've logged more hours in the Falcon's cockpit in the last three weeks than I have in the previous three months. I also had to replace the warp-coil inducers on the hyperdrive, which wasn't cheap, but you can bet I'm gonna scrape together enough to upgrade my vest.

Contacted Magnoli this afternoon. Really quick communication as always. We'll get the deal done tomorrow. Cool

We could just about wrap this thread up now, but we'll leave it open for awhile so Blair can show us the Costumebase vest. Looking forward to seeing it, I'm sure others are as well. Plus, we may take a look at some other versions in the future.

I'll let everyone know how the transaction with Magnoli goes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Master Vos (Tim)
Ryloth Base CO
Ryloth Base CO


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2353
Location: Adelaide
Medals: 1 (View more...)
Boston Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow very impressed the time that you have put into this research is impressive. I really like all the detailed photos from both the movie and also what you have created.
_________________

Ryloth Base Website
Ryloth Base FB Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Tucson
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, glad you're enjoying it. I hope this will be both helpful and informative to lots of current and future smugglers. All the credit for the research of the screen-used vest goes to our very own SoloYT1300, Bob Kohn. Thanks again Bob. I felt like some of this needed to be pulled out of the archive and revisited for those who might have missed it.

It's been two weeks since I placed my order with Magnoli. Great to work with as usual; communication is good, and he allowed me to send in drawings and measurements of exactly how I want the vest to fit. I know I'll be over-the-moon happy with it when it finally arrives. Only bad thing is he's saying two to three months. Not unusual for Magnoli, that's about how long it took to get my pants. Still, a long time when you just can't wait for something.

Just to be clear: The purpose of this thread is not to advertise or overly endorse Magnoli in any way. I'm not on his payroll, and he's not giving me any discounts for writing it. I really do hope it helps those looking to buy or upgrade their vest to make the choice that's best for them. By the time I'm finished, I will have $425.00 invested into ANH vests because I felt like the $250.00 Magnoli was charging was too high. I'm hoping to save others from that expense by showing exactly what they're getting from as many different examples as possible.

Again, I think with a bit of alteration, just about any vest mentioned in this thread is going to get approved. (I'm not an LCJ, so don't hold me to that) It's really about what level of accuracy each person is looking for, what they can live with, what's in the budget, etc.

With that in mind, tune in Sunday for a look at yet another off-the-rack version that I think is one of the better ones out there. Until then,

May the Force be with You.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Colorado Wildfires 2012 Relief Award (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Brian for your kind words... means more than you know.

I had spoken to my wife to bring up a few more details of the baffling/venting and the different kinds out there as far as how to get that look.

Once I have all the pictures together I will share what I have found... I think a few of you guys will be pleased.

Bob
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Tucson
Medals: None

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thank you as well Bob. Your research, input, challenges and inspiration have helped me to create a Han Solo costume that I'm really pleased with so far. Your efforts are very much appreciated. And yes, I look forward to seeing what you put together as far as the pocket billowing goes.

Now, as promised, a look at yet another off-the-rack version that I think looks pretty good. Corellian Exports is a vendor we are probably all familiar with, mostly for their resin belt tools and blasters. But they also make the soft parts for the costume. I'm not sure why I didn't think of them when I started this, but let's take a look at their vest. First, the "crescent moon" pocket:

[img]
CE ANH Vest-Crescent Pocket by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

It has a very nice shape, correctly placed small pocket, and shares the seam with the yoke. Everything looks correct here. Next, the overall front of the vest:

[img]
CE ANH Vest 1 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

The overall spacing between the pockets looks good, the small pocket on the upper-left side appears correctly sized; the pocket on the lower left and the one on the lower right are different sizes, this is also correct. Finally, the vest does have a waistband, so I correct my earlier statement that Magnoli's was the only commercially available version which includes the waistband. This looks really good from the front. Now, let's take a look at the back:

[img]
CE ANH Vest 2 by bri458, on Flickr[/img]

Here is where it begins to slip a little. From the photo, it appears that the loops are one strip of fabric sewn into loops, much like the Costumebase version. Also, the flap on the large pocket should be directly under the loops, but there is some space here. Most every off-the-rack version misses this, except Magnoli's. Also it looks like the large pocket is topstitched down, but it's hard to tell from a photo. Overall, this looks like a really good ready-made vest.

Other things are also difficult to tell from a pic, such as wether or not the vest is lined, or has any interior pockets. Also can't really tell how accurate the pocket billowing is, or the quality of the fabric. If anyone tuning in out there has this vest, any further first-hand info you could provide would be a huge help.

I don't really know much about Correllian Exports other than that their website is a bit difficult to use, and provides no pricing info. E-mails I have sent inquiring about pricing have gone unanswered. I don't really like that, so I have basically decided not to use them. But I know others have had better experiences with them. They currently have this vest listed on an online auction for $155.00. That makes it about $30.00 more than the Evolution Props version, but it is much more accurate, and about $100.00 less than Magnoli.

Havok has already mentioned that his ANH shirt from them is a bit fragile, but I think that is probably due to the linen more than the workmanship. Perhaps Havok and others could let us know about their experiences with Correllian Exports (customer service, communication, quality, etc). I don't want people's opinions colored by my one experience.

That's about it for now, I've got my eyes and ears open for any feedback from someone who might have this vest and can share some opinions.

This is CaptSolo, signing out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Han Solo and Other Smugglers All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can post calendar events in this forum
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans. While not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred volunteer Rebel costuming group. Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2014 Lucasfilm Ltd. & ™ All rights reserved. Used under authorization.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group