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Handmaiden flamegown standard discussion
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Naergi ()
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lora Skywalker wrote:
So... what is panne velvet? (Since you are banning it it would be nice to know what it is for future costumers). Wink And my dictionary doesn't know.

Panne (or Panné) velvet is that cheap-looking, ugly, flimsy, stretchy, polyester excuse of a crushed velvet that, if at all, should only be used as temporary tablecloths on flea market tables.
Surprisingly, some people think it makes great costumes, besides being a PEST to sew (because of rolling edges, stretchiness and overall flimsiness!) and, oh did I mention that it's ugly and looks cheap?

No offense to costumers who love panne velvet... but the universe of as-accurate-as-possible Star Wars (and Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, any-other-vaguely-historically-inspired-movie-you-can-imagine) is NOT the place for panne velvet.

The crushed silk velvet (or rather - silk/rayon blend velvet - backing silk; pile rayon) alternative is called 'crushed silk velvet', by the way.
The term 'Panne' velvet is reserved for the polyester version (which, I think I already mentioned it, is ugly); like the term 'sateen' is reserved for a cotton-based fabric and 'doupioni' for a certain type of slubby silk weave (which, by the way, is NOT historically accurate for anything BEFORE ~1950, which is when it was 'invented'!).
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Lora Skywalker ()
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it is interesting that the definition SoloYT1300 posted a link to and your definition doesn't seem to match up. So it didn't really clear up matters for me. Rolling Eyes

The link says it a method, a finish. You say it's a type of fabric. (See, this is why I hate translating terms and having to figure out what is what. (Also why I'm not a fan of strict rules regarding fabric)).

Is crushed velvet or panne velvet that stuff usually used for tablecloths? Is panne velvet a fabric or a method to make velvet look a certain way?

I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear, but knowing exactly what the terms are is really important as soon as the standards start to ban or demand certain materials.
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Naergi ()
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lora Skywalker wrote:
I think that it is interesting that the definition SoloYT1300 posted a link to and your definition doesn't seem to match up. So it didn't really clear up matters for me. Rolling Eyes


Maybe it does if I tell you that ehow.com pays their writers by the article, not by their knowledge and / or the validity of the information they provide. And no, other websites copying precisely that information word by word doesn't make it more valid either (then again, there's the question who copied what first! Rolling Eyes).

Quote:
The link says it a method, a finish. You say it's a type of fabric. (See, this is why I hate translating terms and having to figure out what is what. (Also why I'm not a fan of strict rules regarding fabric)).


Let me give a different example:
A gazillion people call any-kind-of-satin-you-can-imagine (polyester satin, acetate satin, rayon satin...) "silk", even if "silk" is a fiber and not a weave (like satin). Does that make their usage of the term 'silk' correct? No, it doesn't; it just shows that they either don't care or don't know.

It's like this; usually you have [FIBER]+[weave type]=fabric. Like, SILK satin, RAYON jersey, POLYESTER chiffon, SILK/RAYON velvet. With the [FIBER+weave] combination, you can clearly specify what you're talking about. If you just name the fiber OR the weave, you can't.

There are a few exceptions to that rule. I already named a few, 'Doupioni' is a term reserved for a weave made from silk fibers (and therefore sellers who try to sell you 'Polyester Doupioni' should be crucified!); 'Linen' usually applies to the typical, simple linen weave (and is usually accompanied by the weight and thread count, to determine how thick the threads in the weave are!); 'sateen' (opposed to 'satin'!) is reserved for a certain, low-sheen variety of a cotton weave; 'Velveteen' is a term for an extremely short-piled cotton velvet, and 'Panné velvet' is, well, crushed polyester stretch velvet.

That's at least what it SHOULD be like; those are industry standards of fabric terminology.
Of course, fabric sellers (stores too!) will occasionally confuse the terms (see the 'satin' analogy which I wrote down at the beginning of this posting); either because they are ignorant or simply don't know any better.
That however doesn't change the fact that according to industrial standards, 'panne velvet' is the term reserved for crushed stretched polyester velvet.

Quote:
Is crushed velvet or panne velvet that stuff usually used for tablecloths?


Yes. Cushions too.

Quote:
Is panne velvet a fabric or a method to make velvet look a certain way?


If you want to make ABSOLUTELY sure... write 'polyester panne velvet'. It's a tautology, though; the equivalent to something like the "Sierra Nevada mountain range" (which, after all, means "Snowy Mountain Range mountain range" if you translate the first two words to English!).

Coming to think of it, maybe use the term 'any kind of crushed velvet; including, but not limited to, polyester panne velvet'. That should rule out ANY kind of panne / crushed / whatever mistreated velvet pile Wink

Nevertheless, no matter WHICH terminology (panne velvet or polyester panne velvet) is used, the fabric WILL have to be dyed for that ombre-dyed look.
Since the methods of dyeing polyester are, well, poor, people will, at most, have a shot at rayon or silk/rayon velvet. If it's dyed, it gets wet; and with the wetness goes any possible crushed appearance (note that this is NOT the case for polyester panne velvet!) except if they really dry the fabric while being crushed. ;-)
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Lora Skywalker ()
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Naergi! It is much clearer now. Very Happy I agree that the terms get confused all over the place, which is what really makes this so hard to sort out. I hope the above will be helpful to others who wish to make this costume at some point. I certainly know I want to remake mine some day, just not now. (And when I do I'm going with silk/rayon).
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Sheikahchica (Lindsay S.)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious - I have a friend working on this costume, and we were wondering about shoes. Is there any requirement on them? The best I can see in the films is that they look like they may have a slight heel, the color is hard to pinpoint.
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Miana (Rachel Williams)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coordinating low-heeled pumps or flats. Smile
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Lora Skywalker ()
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say off-white/cream shoes. Smile And yes, they do have a little heel, but it's hard to tell how high it is. I don't think I would go higher than 5 cm/2 inches.
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