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RFT wearing... field caps!
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Okami Dai ()
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This style remembers me to a french army cap from the 60ies or 70ies(?), it had a "neck cover" attached that was foldable up and down, but I only saw it in camo design. But maybe this cap was a desert/ hot weather variation with a larger shield and in beige colour....
The big shield is the greatest difference to "normal" baseball caps, the "neck thing" could be easily attached.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen Fishing caps that look similar and come in various colors.

Here is an example of one with a very large neck flap that could possibly be altered.



http://www.king-caps.net/index.php?cPath=22_64

I know that I've seen others with nearly the exact same small folded piece too.





David L.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one by Dorfman Pacific may be a better match:



Style: MC13

http://www.essentialapparel.com/mens/hats-en/sun-hats-en.html

Here's a different Dorfman cap:

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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I have had time to reflect on this and take in some of the discussion and suggestions...
this is my take on things...
and
again..
this is just my take...
final decisions will come from "above".

First off, as pointed out to me...
take a good look at the pilots standing in line in the celebration scene. Notice that they are wearing street shoes and obviously also have no leg flares. I don't imagine that you will see the Pilots changing the current standards to reflect the wearing of street shoes and no leg flares as a substitute for the jackboots and leg flares.
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think it will happen.


I could almost see the Trooper with a hat as a separate costume just as "Endor Gunners" were made a separate costume rather than being a substitution for any pieces that are currently part of the Endor Commando costume standard. Perhaps "Celebration Scene Trooper"....dunno...just a thought.

I am not sure that as a costume group that we are obligated to make everything seen on screen a formal costume....generally I would imagine that we are tasked with presenting the iconic for sure..
....
when it comes to the Celebration scene at the end of "A New Hope", I offer this scan from the book "The Making of Star Wars" that gives insight to all things thrown together to produce that scene.





Let me add that this has been a very good discussion....I am sure it has given us all a lot to think about not only for this situation, but, what I am sure will be others to come.

With regard to the "Ice Cream guy"...I could not say...I (obviously) had nothing to do with that.
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Vissan (Maciej Witala)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great scan, Phyllis, amazing that this "not-in-budget" scene ended as one of my (and others) favorite scenes in OT Smile

I'd say, continue research and somebody plz make one cap if you can/have resources at the time.

Shvagyer - at least you can achieve adding the cap to optional items, which I think should be no problem at all - it appeared in film just like pike and holsters.

Personally i'd be delighted to obtain one of those (screen accurate) caps and wear it during table duty or during VERY hot days of trooping.

Oh, and happy new year to all of you Smile


Last edited by Vissan (Maciej Witala) on Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the option to unblouse the flightsuit in the X-Wing costume was removed from the standards. I know I included them in there when it was shown that this was a canon variation.

just as with this issue, I would support that option being restored to the standards.

My stance here will always be : if it was onscreen, (for whatevere reason) it's canon and therefore formal.
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Mac Bragg ()
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI: We (the Legion) are still "Re-judging" older costumes and until that process is complete the existing standards will remain "frozen".

The Legion CO hopes to have that completed by March, but until then no changes to existing standards.
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Okami Dai ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Droidwelder: Perfect find for the caps! Forget all "french caps" mentioned above.....

@ ShVagYeR: I only have the 2004 DVDs, but at 4,47min you can see two RFT´s without helmet behind 3PO when he enters a gangway to search for R2 onboard of the Tantive IV. Well, those RFTs´re fleeing from the Stormtroopers, but...without helmet!
Of course I never thought of making this standard seriously!!!!!!!!
But it is on screen, sooo.......Oh, shut up you stupid...!

@ Schph Gochi: "Celebration Scene Trooper" sounds perfect for this costume!
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Mac Bragg ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was just checking the Blu-Ray and found another shot with the cap in it:



"The Briefing Room" - He has a cap folded in half stuffed under his belt. I've messed with the contrast and brightness, but this AVI sourced grab does not come close to what you can see on the BR.

With the cap folded in half, we can see the profile of the brim - it is rounded at the end like a 1940s or 50s ball cap, not semi-squared off like a modern version.



This would be consistant with GL's suggestions to McQuarrie and Mollo that the rebels look like "Marines and Cowboys"

Note that in the previous photos, the front of the hats do not stand up as we are used to seeing today (to allow team logos to be seen better) but pull back following the natural round contour of the head. I've got a 1960's era cap somewhere in my boxes of hats, and it is worn the same way as you see in the pictures. The "slices" of the hat are almost "pie" shaped, like the segments on an umbrella or parachute. Modern caps are constructed with the bottom 1/3 almost "square" to form the vertical sides and then fold over.

I was able to purchase an original 1980 The Thinking Cap Company "rebel hat" over the weekend, and it should arrive in a week or so. While not "100% screen accurate", the general construction and shape should be very close (as is their Imperial Cap is).

From what we have been able to see so far:
1. The brim has a rounded shape, not "squared off" like modern caps.
2. There are no rows of top stitching on the brim like on the Imperial caps or modern caps.
3. The cap is constructed from six segments, with a one of the seams in the center of the cap (you can see them in the backs of the hat, and by the way the material dips between the seams).
4. The cap is constructed to follow the natural contour of the head, and not present a "hatbox" shape with vertical sides or front.
5. There are no grommets on the body of the hat - metal or stitched.
6. Caps are made to size, there are no adjustable tabs or straps on the back of the hat.
7. There is no top "button".
8. There is a flap on the rear of the cap, that appears to be about 1/4 to 1/3 the width of the overall cap. It is much shorter than the Rebel caps worn on Endor.
9. The flap has a edge trim (bias tape?) possibly 1/2" wide. It is not known if ther is visible top stitching or if all the seams are inside (like the Imperial caps).
10. The flap has a gradual curve from the ends, reaching maximum height at the rear of the cap. It does not cover the ears, in contrast to the sharp rise as seen on the Hoth caps.

To be accurate, these hats will have to be constructed from scratch. Modern caps generally have several, if not all of the following features:
1. The wrong overall shape.
2. The wrong brim shape.
3. Several rows of top stitching on the brim.
4. Grommets in the body of the cap.
5. An adjustable back strap or buckle.
6. A decorative button riveted to to the top of the cap.
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ShVagYeR (Michael Szymanski)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okami Dai wrote:
you can see two RFT´s without helmet behind 3PO when he enters a gangway to search for R2 onboard of the Tantive IV. Well, those RFTs´re fleeing from the Stormtroopers, but...without helmet!

Confirmed! Now that you gave me the exact moment, I've found it. Very Happy Here it is:



Mac Bragg, that is one heck of an analysis! I doubt there is anything else that can be said on the matter of shape and design of those caps. Let me just add bluray screengrabs of the scene you found:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears that the discussion on this matter is over. I imagine few costume parts get such a lengthy and in-depth analysis that spans an 8-page topic. Very Happy Anyway I'd like to thank you all for participating and voicing your opinions. I've posted the suggestion to alter the standards here: http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=465020#465020
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is only temporarily set aside...
and this discussion really has been a good thing..

this does need to be addressed...but we have not been allowed to make any standard changes or additions for a year now since the Legion-wide re-judging started in Jan 2011...

The rejudging is continuing on until the end of March.
Freezing the standards was for the benefit of those older costumes facing re-judging..

personally...
I am all for making the Troopers with the hat a separate character...
the Standard would be pretty much the same as a Rebel Fleet Trooper except the hat would be required instead of the RFT bucket..
Maybe calling them "Celebration Rebel Trooper" or something along those lines...
in a way it would be similar to the Endor Gunners...
similar costume pieces...but different scene.

dunno...

and...
as always...
first rate MacBragg!
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ShVagYeR (Michael Szymanski)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schph Gochi wrote:
we have not been allowed to make any standard changes or additions for a year now since the Legion-wide re-judging started in Jan 2011...

The rejudging is continuing on until the end of March.
Freezing the standards was for the benefit of those older costumes facing re-judging..

I totally forgot about it and jumped the gun... sorry about that. I just hope we'll get back to it after March. Wink

Schph Gochi wrote:
personally...
I am all for making the Troopers with the hat a separate character...
the Standard would be pretty much the same as a Rebel Fleet Trooper except the hat would be required instead of the RFT bucket..
Maybe calling them "Celebration Rebel Trooper" or something along those lines...
in a way it would be similar to the Endor Gunners...
similar costume pieces...but different scene.

I'm not sure about this idea... it'd be like separating different kinds of Endor commandos. They vary in many respects but they're still the same troop formation. Just like RFTs, whether they're wearing helmets or caps.
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Rando Mextra (Mark Bradley)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll add this to the discussion:



M
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Mickey wrote:
I'll add this to the discussion:



M



That costume is what is considered Hoth Tech...

see this thread and scroll down to Hoth Tech:

http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36153
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