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Han Solo buckles...Interested?
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Wolfie (Crystal Bass)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big problem is that LFL doesnt want us being a public shop for costume parts.

The main 501st forum is completely private. Their local forums are usually not, and thats where the for sale areas are OPEN . you cannot normally access the main 501st site for sale area unless you are a member

Well, this is the MAIN RL forums, so our for sale area is private here. LFL requested that. We arent supposed to publically list armor vendors on this site to non-members

We've been handling this by PMing those looking for items and giving them the people who they can buy things from via PM.

So we can try to make a for sale area but if LFL comes down on us, we'll have to close it... I've asked about this when Steve Sansweet was still in office. His last word was NO armor/prop makers selling publically. They watch these forums and it could lead to Cease and Desists being issued.

Sooo we could block it to where members and registered members of the forum only can see it, but then there are some LFL members with accounts...

So hopefully with proposed rules changes and blocking it to registered members only, that would work and cover our butts at the same time, at least some what, while giving access to vendors to the public. But that will open up a lot of our vendors to possibly being seen by LFL as making a profit off their intellectual property. This happened to the Got Armor guys a while back.

Lichtbringer wrote:


Maybe this situation is the reason for the many inaccurate details in the RL - Mercs and Empire have to follow Georgieboys rules, too. But they seem to strive for higher and higher accuracy, encouraging their member to get higher levels, and trying to ease the availability of parts for their members.

From a outside position it´s funny to notice. Wink


As a non-member, where do you see that the RL is so inaccurate anyway? this is not a very "accurate" assumption.

Our old inaccuracies were due to OLD standards that have since been replaced. We have MUCH more strict standards than we used to. Some of which are more strict than the 501st. We routinely turn down Tusken/Jawa/Clone costumes that were APPROVED by the 501st because the RL doesnt think they are accurate enough.

and the Mercs can't push accuracy because their costumes are custom by nature. They can only push quality. Which has improved. But still are not accurate to anything specific unless they do a canon costume.

There are still some inaccurate members and some "informal" costumes in the RL but our newly Formal costumes are MUCH higher than they were 4 years ago. Actually go look at 501st costumes from 6-7 years ago. They include custom mandos (yes the 501st used to have them) , really awful bounty hunters and clones. And they still have some countries/garrison that approve the chinese ebay clone kits. So really TIME and availability is what promotes accuracy.

however, you are right in that we might get MORE applicants if we allowed the out right sale to be open to the public. But LFL doesnt want that. They just cant police a hundred small local 501st websites. Its much easier to police ONE rebel legion website though...


Last edited by Wolfie (Crystal Bass) on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think PHP can be set up in such a way as to... not only have regestered users only to see and purchase, but to also have it so only members can Post new sales! So members with formal costumes would still be the only people to sell items yet still allowing new users (provided they are regestered) to purchase items... yet not post new threads for sales.

This would protect members from people are just here to make a fast buck and allow people in to build up a costume if they go thru the right channels.

If you get a chance Crystal... look into the settings for Mod user set ups and I think you will find this is a possibility.


Bob
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Wolfie (Crystal Bass)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes there is a way to prevent posting and such with some versions of forum releases. I will have to check.

But that wont prevent if we open the forum to registered members that LFL wont see and get vendor names and emails and give them cease and desist orders because of it.

Because I know there are at least 2-3 LFL employees with accounts here.

Sooo it will depend on how much they see it as us completely disregarding the one main rule we were given to play in this sandbox. It may be an old, outdated rule that they don't care about so much anymore though. Possible. But its always been that we do NOT list vendors publicly. I'm not really able to find a way around this. Unless the vendors just post things they MADE then put PM me if interested.

I'd hate if opening this up lead to people like Mark and others who have gotten us stuff over the years to getting in any hot water. We're a private club that takes some work and effort to join. There is plenty of help on these forums though for those who take the time to look for it.

Bob, you were one of the biggest advocates to members making their own stuff. LOL opening this up will lead to an influx of ready made members ya know Razz Which doesnt bother me at all... but it actually could make things worse. People buying things off of others not tailored to their form / bodies, getting mad because they arent approved because the costume looks BAD on them because it wasnt made for them

BUT it would also help those looking for props and parts. Or seamstresses to make things to their body type. And then open THOSE people up and the RL to getting LFL on them.

So I'm just wondering a way we can do this and NOT break the only rule we were given by LFL. "No public costume maker shops"

So the way its been now is people post they make stuff, sell it in private areas, and people PM newbies how to get in touch with these people.

I am ALL for doing this if we can find a way to protect our members and prop/armor/costume makers. They are my first priority in this. But then again, I'm only here a few more months at the helm, after that it will be up to the new LCO to interpret the way these rules were meant and written. I'll just be a normal member then with an opinion and no obligation... but I'll still throw it out there that the prop makers have to be protected for us to stay able to have things.
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SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed that we do not want to even come close to messing up the good relations we have with LFL.

I do think that if we state our case to the LFL they may be able to give us a solution... that we may allready have figured out. It amazes me how people can react completly different about a solution if you let them come up with it. I really believe if you tell them our situation : We have people who want to become members, who are regestered on our site, but are unable to purchase from our sales section because they are not members (vicious circle really) because they cannot get the items. If you mention our situations and solutions we may be able to make a few changes with no one getting upset.


Bob
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an advocate of making it yourself... but not everyone will or can go to some of the leves other are able too. I too can not make everything... allthough I have done work with footwear I am not good enough to make my own boots.... yet! Smile


I just feel items like this buckle are items that people really are not able to make around the world. There are very few Hans who have made their own hardware, and even fewer who have made good ones.

I do not think we should make exceptions for specific items so I have to question the manner of which the rules dictate how we run our for sale section. I think for the most part our sale section runs fine... for the most part. I will say that its kind of backwards for new people though.

New person who struggles to make an Endor costume... spends a ton of effort and resources to make the costume right... becomes a member, and the first thing they see is a For sale section on the items he struggled to make that he could have had us help him with. Simply frustratin... I get it!

So I also understand the stance that LFL has taken... very well! I just would hope that we could meet in the middle with a bit of common sense on this.

Maybe its time we re-think our lower ranking systems and seriously consider adding a new rank just past registered user and go with that cadet rank/ system we talked about in the past. This would help a ton I think with guaranteeing the security of the site, yet getting new costumers the access to the site needed to making a new costume.
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Wolfie (Crystal Bass)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, a new rank could help. It could also give them access to the event/base member areas that are base member only. Basically those people just being handlers until they finish their costumes. So they can see stuff, buy stuff, etc.

If we have a few good ideas, lets get them somewhat organized and I can present them to LFL about a compromise of sorts.

As it is, any one can post found items openly... we basically just need a way to post part makers. Seamstresses basically can post that they are available for seamstress work... the big issue , like you said, are these things like this.

I think really the small greeblie type things wont be a problem. Its things like helmets and armor parts that are the big ones they seem to be worried about when I have asked before. And it has been Steve Sansweet who we went through with these types of things in the past. So right now I will be taking things to Mary Franklin, so it might be a while before we hear back as well. She's a busy lady.
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SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you like for me to propose a new rank in a different thread... or should I hold my tongue till amendment cycles?
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CaptSolo77 (Brian)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It's the politics of contraband, it's the Smuggler's Blues... Cool."

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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfie wrote:

As a non-member, where do you see that the RL is so inaccurate anyway? this is not a very "accurate" assumption.


As a prop guy, and not beeing costumer, that´s what i see on nearly every build i have a look on.

I see splitting hairs about a certain kind of fabric, or how seams should be made - but when it comes to weapons and equipment ......... "ouch", most of the time. "Cheap" and "light" is requested, accuracy not so much.


Wolfie wrote:

Our old inaccuracies were due to OLD standards that have since been replaced. We have MUCH more strict standards than we used to. Some of which are more strict than the 501st. We routinely turn down Tusken/Jawa/Clone costumes that were APPROVED by the 501st because the RL doesnt think they are accurate enough.


Let me guess - wrong fabric? For sure not the wrong Gaffii-stick.

Most of your standards seem to cover the costume only ..... but no matter how good that is made, a ****** blaster (or other equipment needed for a certain character) frakks it up massivly.


Wolfie wrote:

and the Mercs can't push accuracy because their costumes are custom by nature. They can only push quality. Which has improved. But still are not accurate to anything specific unless they do a canon costume.


Maybe the "i build me a somehow merc-ish something", but the Boba and Jango crowd seems to be the most fanatic bunch on every single details you can find. (If the person can afford the better parts, off course.)


Wolfie wrote:

There are still some inaccurate members and some "informal" costumes in the RL but our newly Formal costumes are MUCH higher than they were 4 years ago. Actually go look at 501st costumes from 6-7 years ago. They include custom mandos (yes the 501st used to have them) , really awful bounty hunters and clones. And they still have some countries/garrison that approve the chinese ebay clone kits. So really TIME and availability is what promotes accuracy.


I agree on the time aspect, but you´re handling the standards for weapons so lax (if i´m right they are often not covered in the standards and free for everyone to handle, even if or if not he carries a weapon?). There could be much more encouragement to improve things.

As a example: If someone on the FISD wants to start a E-11 build with a toy (hasbro ....), dozens of guys chime in and try to convince him on a more accurate looking pipe-build, of a doopy-doos kit. At the end not that much more expensive than a completed try to accurize a bad toy. But without that encouragement to make a bigger step to accuracy from the other fellows, many would just use the inaccurate toys.

And that´s the kind of the situation i see here.
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SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It amazes me how people do not take critisizm very well. If we came down hard on weapons here like in the 501 ( I wish we could) we would get a ton of heat from our membership as a whole as being costume elitists. It took me the better part of 3 years to push high standards so Hans bloodstripes were not 2 inches thick height wise. I took a ton of heat from my charge on higher standards, and would do it again. However we need to go in steps to get to the point were we can judge a higher standard for Hans blasters as an example.

I do agree that should be the goal... we are after all a costuming club who strives for movie accurate costumes.


my 2 cents


Bob Kohn
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Twitch (Jagen Ordo)



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed that the question about material etc. was not answered.
The buckles are made out of aluminum, and look very good. Made to fit a 2.25 inch belt.
I asked about price and shipping, and he sells a set of three buckles (so any of the three belts can be made), the connecting parts, and a droid caller clip that can be either aluminum or steel.
Once the buckles arrive, I can make a proper statement on the quality and size.
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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:
It amazes me how people do not take critisizm very well. If we came down hard on weapons here like in the 501 ( I wish we could) we would get a ton of heat from our membership as a whole as being costume elitists.


There is no need to be a elitist, i see nothing wrong in having possibilities for the beginners, or for people with a small amount of free money.

But it´s also not bad to remind the people on a regulary basis that there is something that can be improved - not to persevere in mediocrity cause it is so easy. Not neccessary setting high standards in stone, but making the people wish to have more accurate things than the cheapest possible.

I show my builds, knowing that there will be not much feedback, not even a real interest (only small amounts of clicks). I know they might be a overkill for trooping, but maybe .... if seeing them makes some people wanting to have a build Denix instead a Rubies, then i call it "mission accomplished". Wink


SoloYT1300 wrote:
I do agree that should be the goal... we are after all a costuming club who strives for movie accurate costumes.


I see other communities, too, and i prefer no side - cause i build my Han blaster with as much fun as i build a Trooper E-11 or a Rebel DH-17. I have nothing to loose, and nothing to gain here, so maybe my unbiased voice from the outside helps to make some people think about it, not to go for the lowest common factor as the final goal.
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Masterbean (Brian Bean)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twitch wrote:
I noticed that the question about material etc. was not answered.
The buckles are made out of aluminum, and look very good. Made to fit a 2.25 inch belt.
I asked about price and shipping, and he sells a set of three buckles (so any of the three belts can be made), the connecting parts, and a droid caller clip that can be either aluminum or steel.
Once the buckles arrive, I can make a proper statement on the quality and size.


If you read through all the thread, you'd see that it was answered indirectly. Which is to say that your answer could not be answered on the boards. If you want to know a price, you should PM the person directly.
posting a price effectively makes this a for sale thread, which can't be done.
But you're right, the material question could have been answered, though since you said it's made of aluminum, I'm guessing that means it was. (shrug)
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Masterbean (Brian Bean)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lichtbringer wrote:

There is no need to be a elitist, i see nothing wrong in having possibilities for the beginners, or for people with a small amount of free money.
...
I see other communities, too, and i prefer no side - cause i build my Han blaster with as much fun as i build a Trooper E-11 or a Rebel DH-17. I have nothing to loose, and nothing to gain here, so maybe my unbiased voice from the outside helps to make some people think about it, not to go for the lowest common factor as the final goal.


I just want to say that you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Complaining that our standards are low and yet saying it's okay for beginners...If we raised the standards, than your statement about things being okay for beginners would no longer be valid as they would fall below the standard and therefore not accepted. While I appreciate looking through your builds and I do agree that encouraging us/them to build better/more accurate weapons is good, you coming in and complaining about our standards being low is poor form. Just saying.
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Lichtbringer ()



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Masterbean wrote:
I just want to say that you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Complaining that our standards are low and yet saying it's okay for beginners...If we raised the standards, than your statement about things being okay for beginners would no longer be valid as they would fall below the standard and therefore not accepted.


Don´t get me wrong - when i´m saying it should be possible to have a standard low enough anyone CAN get, it means not that it should be as low as now is accepted.

For example: the old black or the new red Kenner Blaster



are so plain wrong that it hurts to see them used. It would be better to go without any than with this chunk of plastic. (I still love my vintage one as its remembering me on my childhood, it was bought before ESB)

But to the low standards there should be always a effort in the community to convince the beginner to go for higher aims.

You can use a modded Hasbro E-11 to be a trooper, but then you are only background filler material. For getting EIB or Centurion standard you need to met higher standards, also on your weapons. So the people try to encourage every new beginner to go for the better stuff.

The Kenner is awfull, every available Softair is the complete wrong Mauser, ...... a repainted and modified Rubies is not that bad, but also not good.

A Denix would be a good and cheap start - or one of the resin-casts based on a Denix. No need to spend hundred for a real one or for a MGC for trooping, but thats no reason to go as low as possible.

And i´m pretty sure that any newbie looks up to the older and/or more experienced members .... if they would see that the majority of the "older" members would have a higher standard on their stuff, that would made the newbie wish to have such cool stuff, too, instead of inferior starter sets. The same as starting with a costumebase Han costume, and later upgrading. But if everyone tries to keep the standards as low and comfortable as possible, then what should make the new ones to get better?


Masterbean wrote:
While I appreciate looking through your builds and I do agree that encouraging us/them to build better/more accurate weapons is good, you coming in and complaining about our standards being low is poor form. Just saying.


If noone says anything that way, how should you know? Sometimes it´s needed to get some input from the outside, cause everyone is doing it the way as it was always done before.

I didn´t knew it when i chimed in here first, but soon i noticed the efforts made by troopers and mercs to go for higher levels. First i wondered, and so i shut up and looked closer .... but the first view was soon confirmed. It´s so harder to understand cause not everything is handled here that way, just weapons and equipment.
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