About Us Members Unit Listing Events Costuming Resources Forum Contact Us Trading Cards
 

Forum and Costume Controls

   FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  medals.php?sid=4b5fbb6e4e43e852b50f90e34a1bf4d2Medals   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in

       
REMINDER: Do not change your e-mail address yourself. Please read this first for why.

Han Solo Hoth Standards Breakdown

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Han Solo and Other Smugglers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Hurricane Sandy Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Han Solo Hoth Standards Breakdown Reply with quote

This is my take on the Han Solo Hoth Standards. This is an attempt to bring the standards to the attention of everyone in the detachment so we can go over the standards with the information we have and update the standards accordingly. We have no direct say as to how the standards are written, but I do believe being a detachment it is our responsibility to keep the standards committee informed when changes are needed.

Here we go!

Listed below are the current standards for the Hoth Han costume. I am breaking down the standard step by step to go over the costume and to determine where we can make fixes/ corrections. I would love to hear everyone’s input on the standards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Han Solo (Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Hoth Gear)

Required Items:


1. Blue-ish dark brown quilted thigh-length parka with a full hood trimmed in brown/gray fur, 2 pocket flaps at the bottom of the front yoke and a flap pocket on each upper sleeve

2. Correct rank insignia on upper left side of the vest yoke

3. Light gray snow pants

4. Light gray tall snow boots with 3 ivory straps and ivory trim for each boot shaft. Boots must be knee high.

5. Very light gray snow gloves with long cuffs

6. Very light gray or off-white long scarf

7. Pants should be made from brown cotton twill fabric w/ the back riding seam and pin tuck down the front on both pant legs: Riding Seam , Pin Tuck

8. Accurate leather belt and buckles with capped holster, correct tools and proper droid caller

DL-44 blaster (Empire Strikes Back version), unless local laws prohibit or strongly discourage carrying anything that looks like a firearm


Note: The parka was on display at CIV and it was observed to be dark brown. However, the parka does look blue in the films and we will allow both dark brown and blue versions.


Costume Resources:
Parts of Star Wars Han Solo Empire Strikes Back page

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Listed Below are a few changes I would propose.

Han Solo (Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Hoth Gear)
Required Items:

1. Blue-ish dark brown quilted thigh-length parka with a full hood trimmed in brown/gray fur, 2 pocket flaps at the bottom of the front yoke and a flap pocket on each upper sleeve
I think with the pictures you see above you will find that there is no Blue-ish color at all, and is in fact… Brown. The movie is nothing more than a wash of blue, and these details should be mentioned so people making the costume for the first time, have the proper info to making the costume with the correct color right off the bat.



An example of Blue filming at its finest!:


I also think these photos help with the actual quilting pattern for the Parka… its not 100% I am sure, but it is the best example I have seen:
Front



Back





2. Correct rank insignia on upper left side of the vest yoke



3. Light gray snow pants
I agree with Blair… something about the quilting should be in the line above. Maybe just like he said:
Grey/Tan colored pants with quilted/padded knees.



4. Light gray tall snow boots with 3 ivory straps and ivory trim for each boot shaft. Boots must be knee high.
I do not agree with the knee-high comment here. Like Hans main boots they do not quite come to his knees. In fact I would say they are below knee:




5. Very light gray snow gloves with long cuffs
I think the mention of his communicator would be nice as well. Its visible in many of the pictures above. In the one Picture you can see that the glove actually has 2 distinct colors of off white/ gray:






6. Very light gray or off-white long scarf

Might be worth mentioning how it should be worn.. seems to be wrapped around a few times.. and even tied!


7. Pants should be made from brown cotton twill fabric w/ the back riding seam and pin tuck down the front on both pant legs: Riding Seam , Pin Tuck
I fear this is my fault… when I originally updated the standards oh way back when, I think I did the ol copy paste, and forgot to delete this line… I am surprised no one else caught it besides Blair. This whole line should be removed.
8. Accurate leather belt and buckles with capped holster, correct tools and proper droid caller
No evidence of anything changing from the belt or blaster that is used in the rest of the movie… should remain IMO.

9. DL-44 blaster (Empire Strikes Back version), unless local laws prohibit or strongly discourage carrying anything that looks like a firearm
I also think we should add the Micro binoculars with strap to hang on shoulder as an option for this costume… it’s not a key component but it does show up on his person is used more than once during the movie. Maybe even the goggles.






Note: The parka was on display at CIV and it was observed to be dark brown. However, the parka does look blue in the films and we will allow both dark brown and blue versions.

I think this should be removed IMO. It’s not what we think we know… its what we can prove… we can prove its not blue, so why would we have it blue?




Costume Resources:
1. Parts of Star Wars Han Solo Empire Strikes Back page
2.


--------------------------------------------------------------


I hope you guys found this usefull and are able to add to this to make this standard more accurate.


Bob Kohn
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3007
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Boston Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, if in standard was mensioned "long scarf" - googles AND cap AND binoculars should be in same position ...
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3007
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Boston Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we should more discuss parka color issue

Yes, it was displayed at CIV, and clearly is brown - BUT - costume should be accurate as seen in movie - and in movie, looks more dark, more blue ...

Also Han Solo Hoth merch was for manny years producet with BLUE parka - so, If they knew it that is brown - why doing it blue?

I am proposing KEEP color option for parka ...
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Philippines Typhon Relief (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Color option is one thing, but to call the color blueish brown is incorect. I also do not think basing our standards off toys and merchandice is a good choice either.

Its very well known that ESB has a blueish tint for the whole movie... its very visible for the Hoth part of the movie.
Adywans revisited

So if we base everything we see in the movie into the standards should the luke helmut also have been written as a bluish white helmut? Or the old debate as to if the RFTs helmusts are grey... the argument will never end, and common sense or compromise is the key... I just dont think we should merge the colors as blueish brown.

My point is we as costumers must make it better (and usually do) than the movie. Some of these costumes had duct tape, and never were meant to be used like we use them. They would never last a single parade let alone years of trooping.

The color to these costumes have always been subjected to the issue used in lighting and will always be a debate in all costuming forums and venues... not just the RL.

So what I am saying is, we know its a brown parka. So why have it listed as a blueish Parka? If you want it as an optional color ... thats fine, but I think when someone makes a costume for the first time, they should be well informed as to what it actually was, not just what they think they see.

This film was made with special lighting... lighting we wont have on events.. so its all an illusion anyways. All we can do is provide the costumer with the best info we can of what we know. We know it was Brown...

This topic is not new by any stretch... we have talked about it before in this thread ESB Solo Parka. With the LMO and many others who chimed in we all agreed that both colors should be allowed. What I am stating is we should not mix the two colors in the standard the way it is now. It should not be Blueish brown... not even sure thats a real color Rolling Eyes

It should state either Brown (the color that the Parka is) or optional blue ( the color it tends to look like under certain lighting, and for most of the movie. Its clearly a case of lighting messing with perception and bad filming.
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3007
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Boston Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:
....


Point 1. Sorry, but I did not say any word about keeping "blueish"! - I am just proposing to keep this note:

Note: The parka was on display at CIV and it was observed to be dark brown. However, the parka does look blue in the films and we will allow both dark brown and blue versions.

Point 2. Sorry, but I did not say any word about base standard on toys! ... I was only pointing that in Lucasfilm (LucasArts, etc.) they did not know that parka is brown ... if they knew it, why they approved bad merch? (based on this, and know issue with Obi-Wan coat and also that there are no evidence that "stuff" from display was really used in movies - we should not blindly trust everything)

Point 3. And based on chart:

Formal: Formal is defined as a costume from one of the six Star Wars films, Expanded Universe, or Lucasfilm Licensed Media (TV, books, games, etc.) as it would appear in those materials.

So, I think, it is important, HOW it was seen in movie ...
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Philippines Typhon Relief (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said you wanted to keep it bluish.... that is what the standards say as of right now. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I don’t want to change you; I want to change the standards.


you said:
Also Han Solo Hoth merch was for manny years producet with BLUE parka - so, If they knew it that is brown - why doing it blue?

I said:
I also do not think basing our standards off toys and merchandise is a good choice either.

My point is, I do not feel however they came to make a toy... we should not even consider a toy as reference for things that are in a movie. Not to mention evidence we have outside of the movie. Far to often they are wrong, and misleading. Toys and merchandise are good references as well as comics, for things not in movies, like the EU and other off beat costumes. If we have a costume that was in the movie on display... I am sorry that trumps any toy. I could care less if Hasbro makes a toy blue... I will continue to use common sense when making costume; doing research for costumes... and the standards should reflect reality not a toy.

I am not saying you feel a toy should be the base of a standard, I am simply saying we as a whole should not base our standards on toys when we have other references... a ton more reliable.

As far as how we see the movie.. that is all in perception. How you choose to see the movie and how I choose to see the movie is different. That is how many people on the boards miss the simplest of details... because they assume this or that. Here is a web site that shows how the mind can view things that are just not true.: optical-illusionist
We use all kinds of information when it comes to making these costumes... not just what we see in the movie, but things on display, things in books, comments written by costume designers who made the actual costumes. All these things determine how we end up making our costumes. I am not asking for us to drop the blue option for the costume... I am simply asking for both to be considered for formal... not bluish brown.

With that in mind... we have evidence of the costume as a Brown Parka. We also have visual information that shows the costume as blue with the old film stock. We also have had the original film color corrected and it shows the costume as brown. So you can see how both colors are important to be in the standard, for both colors are correct.
Again, I feel if you list the standard as blueish brown, you leading new costumers who have not done the research down a path of miss-information.
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3007
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Celebration Europe 2 (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:
Again, I feel if you list the standard as blueish brown, you leading new costumers who have not done the research down a path of miss-information.


I don't know what you mean - I hope it is some "lost in translation" - because I am saying it again:

Sorry, but I did not say any word about keeping "blueish"! - I am proposing to keep this note:

Note: The parka was on display at CIV and it was observed to be dark brown. However, the parka does look blue in the films and we will allow both dark brown and blue versions.

AND I DID NOT MAKE ANY STATEMENT THAT I WANT LIST STANDARD AS BLUEISH BROWN

(really, I don't know how to make it more simple ... )
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3007
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Gold Star (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also ... Robert, I am sorry that you did not understand my point about toy.

So, I will try it again:

People in Lucasfilm were supposed to know, how parka look. Right? I am just wondering, IF they knew it, WHY they allowed it to be incorrect on merch? Nothing more. I am just thinking. I am not saying something is more correct or incorrect. I am not making any statement - I am just thinking about it. It is clear now?
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Philippines Typhon Relief (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are assuming that when a toy is created that the person was granted access to the archives... and that is probably not the usual case. Lucas Film has rights to these toys, but that does not mean they created the toy. Hasbro, Kenner and all the other toy companies who make these toys, work for the approval of Lucas film… that does not mean they had access to the archives, nor made the toy correctly. Lucas has shown us their quality control in the past with many figures and other gems they have allowed thru that are completely unlike the items in the movie.

More than likely they (toy company) got photos stills or concept drawings from LFL.. depending on the item.

For something like Hans Parka I bet they got a ton of photos or movie stills. If that is the case, they would end up blue... for its what it looked like in the original movie unedited or color corrected.

I get your point Blair, I just highly doubt that every toy made is properly researched they way we would a costume… thus undependable as a costume resource when we have solid evidence of its real color.


I can live with the line below if item 1 is changed to observe both colors.
Note: The parka was on display at CIV and it was observed to be dark brown. However, the parka does look blue in the films and we will allow both dark brown and blue versions.

I would prefer that:
1.Blue-ish dark brown quilted thigh-length parka with a full hood trimmed in brown/gray fur, 2 pocket flaps at the bottom of the front yoke and a flap pocket on each upper sleeve

Be changed to:
1.Dark Brown or Dark Blue (see Note #1 below) quilted thigh-length parka with a full hood trimmed in brown/gray fur, 2 pocket flaps at the bottom of the front yoke and a flap pocket on each upper sleeve.
Note 1: The parka was on display at CIV and it was observed to be dark brown. However, the parka does look blue in the films and we will allow both dark brown and blue versions.
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Hurricane Sandy Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the new standards in place... I intend to redo what we have gone over here in the form of a resource/ tutorial for the Fringe section.

Otherwise seems like a bit waste of research for just us people in DB-94.

The new standards are listed bellow:

Han Solo (Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Hoth Gear)

Required Items:

1. Dark blue or dark brown quilted thigh-length parka with a full hood trimmed in brown/gray fur, 2 pocket flaps at the bottom of the front yoke and a flap pocket on each upper sleeve
2. Correct rank insignia on upper left side of the vest yoke
3. Light gray or tan pants with quilted knees.
4. Light gray or tan suede boots with suede wraps around them and 3 white straps on each.
5. Light gray gauntlet style suede gloves with comlink on left wrist.
6. White rimmed ski goggles with yellow/amber lenses.
7. Light gray or off-white long scarf
8. Accurate leather gunbelt and buckles with capped holster, correct tools and proper droid caller
9. DL-44 blaster (Empire Strikes Back version), unless local laws prohibit or strongly discourage carrying anything that looks like a firearm


Optional Items:

1. White macro-binoculars with attached shoulder-strap.

Note: The parka was on display at CIV and it was observed to be dark brown. However, the parka does look blue in the films, so we allow both dark brown and dark blue versions.

Updated February 1, 2011

_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nikkos Khann (Conley Nichols)
Detachment CO
Detachment CO


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 1580
Location: Newport News, Virginia
Medals: 3 (View more...)
Rebels 4 Japan (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is a more concise and better way to word this standard. Thanks for all the input and hard work everyone.

Mr. Green
_________________



'I've got a bad feeling about this!'
Docking Bay 94 Commanding Officer 2011-2014
Comlink Admin - Fringe LCJ,
Charter Committee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Han Solo and Other Smugglers All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can post calendar events in this forum
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans. While not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred volunteer Rebel costuming group. Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2014 Lucasfilm Ltd. & ™ All rights reserved. Used under authorization.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group