About Us Members Unit Listing Events Costuming Resources Forum Contact Us Trading Cards
 

Forum and Costume Controls

   FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  medals.php?sid=a8c1fc28cb4518866099e39cc23934eaMedals   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in

       
REMINDER: Do not change your e-mail address yourself. Please read this first for why.

Fringe Standards; Possible Revisions?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Fringe Archive
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Commander Cody (Jason R.)
Detachment CO
Detachment CO


Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 7933
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Medals: 1 (View more...)
CVI Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Fringe Standards; Possible Revisions? Reply with quote

Hey folks!

I've been reading through some of the Fringe Standards and was wondering if members of the Docking Bay 94 Detachment agree that some of the standards need to be updated.

Thoughts? Opinions? Please open it up to discussion.
_________________

RAID Commanding Officer | Legion Costume Judge- Rebel Troopers & Officers | Ohio Garrison XO, 501st Legion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Philippines Typhon Relief (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know my stance on the issue...

I think all standards need to be made more alike. I mean what is considered a must for one type of costume needs to be enforced for all. Far too many of these costume standards are following different levels of quality and details.
Some of the standards in the RL are much more strict than others, where some are not strict enough.

IMO I think the Han falls in the later... not strict enough. My main issue is with the Bloostripes and boots and the over all fitting of the costumes. Considering how some of the costume standards are as picky to include food caplets for a Anakin (2 sets of 4 Jedi Capsules)... something most would not even notice how many are needed.
Or how Mara Jade Standards are 10 times more detailed as to what is needed to get it right. It seems to me that we have compromised our standards for numbers far to long in the Fringe section compared to other sections.

Han Standards are my main concerns... however I am sure many of the other fringe costumes made need a looking at as well.
Below are a few of the main ones, but there are many things we could improve detail wise to help inform the costumers... as to what they need, not only for formal but as much info as we can so they have a chance to get it all 100% right with the knowledge we know. It should include links and photos to help guide them to the perfect costume... if they so choose to do so. Like the 501st CRLs.

Han Standard issues

Bloodstripes
Even though you can hardly see Leias stripes down the sides of her pants in the briefing room costume, and its actually a small part of the movie… she still manages to have more control in the standards as to how big the stripe going down her pants are. Han… who has bloodstripes in every scene in every movie does not have a size standard for formal…. It’s listed as optional? Really? I really feel the more info we can put in the standard, not only will it help control quality… it will also inform new costumers as to what to shoot for when making the costume!
Leia Briefing uniform ~Cool pale gray or pale blue twill pants, tailored with a natural waist height. A solid burnished yellow or gold stripe about 1” wide on each side seam.


Ill Fitted
Many Hans in our Formal section may not want to hear this, but far to many of the costumes allowed in just do not fit correctly AT ALL! This is what happens when the standards don’t account for proper fitted garments. Mara Jade standards have this taken care of. I suggest a simple wording change of … “must be properly fitted”. This allows the LCJ to make rulings on ill fitted costumes without it coming back at them.
Mara Jade ~(Black one piece form-fitting jumpsuit made from a medium-sheen material.)
In my opinion that could easily be adapted for all costume standards by saying costume must be “properly fitted”.


Boots
I also think Hans boots should be considered for adjustment as well... below is the Generic Jedi standards for boots.... much Higher standards than Hans... who is a face character. Why does Generic Jedi have harder standards than Han? The height and no visable closures or laces is what is needed IMO for Han. Hidden Zippers should be ok IMO... but not visable!

Generic Jedi... boots
[color=red]6. Brown Boots (leather, suede, pleather) must rise at least to the calf, but not above the knee. No rubber boots or black boots allowed. No visible laces



Thanks for allowing us to chime in on this Jason!


Bob
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cobalt60
Guest







PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see consistency between han's boots and lukeROTJ boots.
currently, the black PVC riding boots are accepted for Luke, but not Han.

those PVC boots are the correct height. they have no visible zippers or laces.
they have the required "leather-look"..
..BUT - they just happen to be made of vinyl. (PVC)

the han standards state clearly "no rubber boots";
the luke standards state no such restriction.

this seems to be the source of confusion.
(regardless, that PVC is not technically "rubber". hehe)

Razz

--> on the one hand, whats good for Luke should be good for Han.
on the other hand, we don't want to see the standards for Han slip backwards.

---> what do the rest of you think? ARE those PVC boots really
"rubber" boots?
or, are they an acceptable "leather-look" alternative?





either way , the standards for luke's boots should read exactly the same as han's.
(they wore the same boots on screen. and we are one legion, afterall.
we should not have two different standards, for the exact same item).

-============-

beyond that, I agree with Bob.

width of hans bloodstripes should be specified, the same as Leia's.

the details of the belt should be spelled out, to the same level as Anakin's belt.

costume should be properly fitted

(etc).
Back to top
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Philippines Typhon Relief (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally the way I view it is like this:

As costumers we are constantly dealing with illusion... trying to make something look like something else. Its why Sandtroopers can get away with tupaware on the backpacks in ANH.
I think if we force leather to be used for the boots... and not "leather like" we are then compromising the creative side for other costume or props. Setting the presidence for other costumes and getting everyone on the same page is what we should do IMO.

"Leather like" gives the LCJ the abilty to view the costume and judge by appearance... not by material. If we whedre to remove costumes from the roster that used incorrect material for a certain costume.... we would have very few Padmes.... cuz silk and some of the other expensivr fabrics are things we canmt afford.

The old adage applies here IMO....." Appearance is everything" if it looks right... that's good enogh for me.
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 2994
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Boston Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was already lot of told about this ...

So, mine opinions:

boots - I definitely agree with Cobalt60 - what is good for Luke, should be good for Han ...

bloodstripes - I would like to leave in current state ... there was already lot of discussed ...

fitting - sorry guys, but some of us are not Mr. Ford in 77'. It is not possible for everyone to looks in costume like original Han ... how you can judge if costume fit, if you are not seeing it in action?


BUT


I think, in standards should be specified which tools should be present in each version of Han costume and also shape of bucles ... why pointing to some details (bloodstripes) when another important details are missed?
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Commander Cody (Jason R.)
Detachment CO
Detachment CO


Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 7933
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Medals: 1 (View more...)
CVI Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blair wrote:

fitting - sorry guys, but some of us are not Mr. Ford in 77'. It is not possible for everyone to looks in costume like original Han ... how you can judge if costume fit, if you are not seeing it in action?


I disagree with you, Blair. You don't need to be as fit and trim as Harrison Ford was in 1977; you can still alter pieces to fit you properly. Baggy articles of clothing aren't appropriate for this particular costume.
_________________

RAID Commanding Officer | Legion Costume Judge- Rebel Troopers & Officers | Ohio Garrison XO, 501st Legion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 2994
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Gold Star (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatooineboy wrote:
Blair wrote:

fitting - sorry guys, but some of us are not Mr. Ford in 77'. It is not possible for everyone to looks in costume like original Han ... how you can judge if costume fit, if you are not seeing it in action?


I disagree with you, Blair. You don't need to be as fit and trim as Harrison Ford was in 1977; you can still alter pieces to fit you properly. Baggy articles of clothing aren't appropriate for this particular costume.


Yes, I understand - but my point is - that this thing is not possible judge only based on some photos. This "fit" requirement can be easily missjudged ...
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Cobalt60
Guest







PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:
Personally the way I view it is like this:

As costumers we are constantly dealing with illusion... trying to make something look like something else. Its why Sandtroopers can get away with tupaware on the backpacks in ANH.
I think if we force leather to be used for the boots... and not "leather like" we are then compromising the creative side for other costume or props. Setting the presidence for other costumes and getting everyone on the same page is what we should do IMO.

"Leather like" gives the LCJ the abilty to view the costume and judge by appearance... not by material. If we whedre to remove costumes from the roster that used incorrect material for a certain costume.... we would have very few Padmes.... cuz silk and some of the other expensivr fabrics are things we canmt afford.

The old adage applies here IMO....." Appearance is everything" if it looks right... that's good enogh for me.


what's your opinion of those PVC boots?

personally I think they're fine. I prefer them to the side-zipper costume-boots. *shrug*

(you can see the ones I'm talking about here:
http://www.soyonet.co.jp/products/riding_boots.html
you can also compare to the "rubber" version, on the same page).

(( HH-2226-Z , and HH-2227-Z are PVC ; HH-1228 are rubber))

personally I think the PVC models are fine .. but the "rubbeR" are NOT!



-> opinions?
Back to top
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Colorado Wildfires 2012 Relief Award (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the PVC boots look, I have yet to see a set in person. That is to say if I have seen them, they are close enough that I did not notice the difference. The rubber boots I have seen, and they DO NOT look like they should, and should not be allowed IMO in the RL as formal.


For costumes that are ill fitted that means the costume must be made to that persons demensions... one size does not fit all... not even for jedi robes. If a costume is made well you can tell by the "cut" of the garments, as it fits well. If a costume is not made for a person properly, it will not hang properly and the costume and the wearer will look shabby.

You can take a well made costume and if its not on the right person, it will look like crap! These are facts. Unless the person pins or tries to hide a poorly made costume the way its fitted, it will almost always get caught by the LCJ.

Photos are the way we judge in the RL... it is what it is. If the day of the BMO's are needed again, I am sure command will make it so.

The bellow charter rule needs to be viewed time to time to remind people what is considered formal. That means if your making a costume from the movie, it must look like it does in the movie... as if it was the same. The costumes must fit the costumer as it did in the movies for the actors.... so it matters ... big time.

Formal: Formal is defined as a costume from one of the six Star Wars films, Expanded Universe, or Lucasfilm Licensed Media (TV, books, games, etc.) as it would appear in those materials. Costumes must be complete, containing all the parts in good working order and appearance
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cobalt60
Guest







PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as a side note: I think the pants should read "no visible pockets", rather than 'pocketless pants'.

this would make it easier to modify existing pants to make Han pants.
Back to top
Cobalt60
Guest







PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoloYT1300 wrote:
I think the PVC boots look, I have yet to see a set in person. That is to say if I have seen them, they are close enough that I did not notice the difference.

....

Photos are the way we judge in the RL... it is what it is.


I think you've probably seen them without knowing it Wink

here is a photo of PVC boots on one of our RL lukes

(not trying to put Matt on the spot or anything -- he's just the first photo I found in the 'Luke Jedi' thread Wink )



what do you think of boots like THIS , for Han ? Cool
Back to top
Commander Cody (Jason R.)
Detachment CO
Detachment CO


Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 7933
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Medals: 1 (View more...)
CVI Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, out of an entire Detachment, only three people want to comment any possible revisions on the Standards? Falcon

Come on folks, give us some feedback Wink
_________________

RAID Commanding Officer | Legion Costume Judge- Rebel Troopers & Officers | Ohio Garrison XO, 501st Legion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Masterbean (Brian Bean)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1471

Medals: 1 (View more...)
Rebel Legion Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in the detachment but I'll chime in.
PVC boots I think are fine for Formal. I personally hate them after having worn both PVC and Leather, but I really don't see anything wrong with them if others like them.

Bloodstripes - the problem I have with having a specific height/width is that not everyone is the same size. To go to extreme's, if someone who's say 5' applies, their bloodstripes are going to look too big if they have to have a specific height/width, if someone who's 6'5" +, they'll look too small. Also...does that mean that someone will have to take a photo with a ruler next to their pants for submission?

Fitted - I understand you don't want baggy...I'm just not certain how you would be able to incorporate that into the standards. Maybe just that...no baggy pants or shirts. That may give the best mental picture to others to get the point across, as you can see it's already lost on some. No, the standards aren't saying You need to be fit and trim, the costume ON you needs to be fit and trim Wink
So...maybe some kind of anti-baggy message would be better than tight fitted wording.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
SoloYT1300 (Robert Kohn)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 5809

Medals: 5 (View more...)
Hurricane Sandy Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the term Fitted is being misunderstood here.

When a seamstress says it has been fitted to him, or the costume is well fitted to that person. It means it was made or adjusted to that person and it’s obvious that it fits.... hangs well.

Not baggy or off the shoulders, the seams hang were they should… not "Ill fitted".

Personally I think it’s a great catch phrase that most of the standards in the RL could/ should incorporate, because its a generic phrase that fits the situation… depending on what that is.

If a costume is supposed to hang a certain way, a standard can be written: must fit properly, or fitted correctly. That covers the situation then.

Now an adjective can be placed in front" Must be tightly fitted, or loosely fitted, but I feel the term fitted... fits the situation. Sorry for the Pun... couldn’t help it. Laughing
_________________
RL Han Solo Archive and information
Han Archive via Photbucket
My Holster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
Lion Base CO
Lion Base CO


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 2994
Location: Brno / Slavicin
Medals: 4 (View more...)
Rebel Legion Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one point related to: Han Solo Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Hoth Gear costume ...

In standards is written:

Pants should be made from brown cotton twill fabric w/ the back riding seam and pin tuck down the front on both pant legs: Riding Seam , Pin Tuck

I would like to ask, if there is some evidence for it? I was doing some research and doing screenshots from movie and there is no evidence about it ...

My screenshots: http://img268.imageshack.us/g/vlcsnap2011011514h08m41.png/
_________________


Lion Base Commanding Officer | Docking Bay 94 Detachment Executive Officer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> Costume and Prop Making -> Fringe -> Fringe Archive All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can post calendar events in this forum
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans. While not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred volunteer Rebel costuming group. Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2014 Lucasfilm Ltd. & ™ All rights reserved. Used under authorization.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group