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R2's take'm when needed leave them when not
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to know. Perhaps you can shed some light on other builder's opinion on this issue? Has the issue come up much on the Artoo builder's forums?
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like to speak for the others...
I don't usually say much in the forums...I mainly read and try to absorb knowledge...

From what I gather...
many are not interested...

but there are those that are...
and again...
is only my observation...
some would like to be full members just to make it a little easier to find and sign up for events.
which I think is a great thing.

Some of them probably have access to some planning forums...
some maybe do not...
I am sure each Base is different...

It is difficult for me to "see" the other side because I have always had costumes...
and have been a member of the RL and 501st for many years...
I have only been working on R2 for the last 4 years...
so...
starting from the opposite direction with a droid first is something I would not comment on because I have not had that same experience.

Sometimes I take my R2 to events...
sometimes I do not...

My situation is also different in as much as my R2 is not remote controlled. He is a more static unit because since I live by myself the weight of a fully rc droid is something that I simply could not lift, carry and what not. My R2 does light up in all the correct places ...in all the correct colors....and he speaks....but past that he does not move.
I plan to motorize the dome and the one holo eye...but that is about it.
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CTX32 ()



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So my droid (R2D2) and my wife's droid (R3T7) qualifies us to be members of the RL?
We plan to build costumes, Just not sure which ones yet.
We are part of the Southern R2 Builders Group which does a booth each year at MegaCon and we also do Ancient City Con.
We are also a charity group and unofficially separate our group from the main R2 Builders Club because we don't agree with every rule that is imposed by the main club.
I hope to meet you guys and we'll see some of you at MegaCon.
Calvin
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GotWookiee (Matt Pfingsten)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, owning a droid does not qualify you for membership. However, some would like that to change.

Personally, I would like to see access to events granted to droid builders, but would not approve of granting them full membership with the ability to vote and hold office.

Thus far Phyllis is the only droid builder (that I am aware of) that has posted on this topic. I commend her for being unwilling to speak for others. The rest of you should follow her example.

Those of us who have held office in this club, especially the Legion Council, have seen this sort of thing many times before. Whether they are arguing for more relaxed standards or trying to start a base or outpost without enough members, there are always people claiming to represent the voices of many others who choose to remain silent. In the end it always turns out to be a bluff. Until you can back this up with people who actually have a horse in the race, no one will take this seriously a second time.

If we are to extend any kind of official privilege to droid builders it will require some sort of change to the charter, droid standards to determine what is and is not admissible and probably an LCJ for processing droid applications.

Getting on the boards and talking about how awesome it would be of droid builders could be members won't get you anywhere. If you want to make this happen, here is what you need to do:
  1. Get people with finished droids involved in the discussion. This is a public board, anyone who wants to make their voice heard doesn't need others to do it for them.
  2. Figure out what you want. Full membership? Events access? What?
  3. Write up a proposed amendment to the charter, write droid standards. Select someone for the office of Legion Droid Judge. Don't expect the LC to do all the leg work, do it yourself.

Anything less and you are just wasting your breath. I'm not saying that to be rude or insulting, just giving honest and accurate appraisal of the situation.
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CTX32 ()



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once we create our outfits this will give us the permission to join the RL?
We were hoping to be active members as much as possible.
Ok, I'll check back later when we have our outfits and maybe then we will get approval.
Calvin
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTX32 wrote:
Once we create our outfits this will give us the permission to join the RL?
We were hoping to be active members as much as possible.
Ok, I'll check back later when we have our outfits and maybe then we will get approval.
Calvin


If you make a canon costume...you will be a full member at the RL and can take your droid with you whenever you want..
you will find that certain events are more "user friendly" for droids than others..

Some inexpensive costumes I can recommend are the Yavin Tech - this costume requires little sewing...

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/yavinhangar/?yguid=122878206


and the Rebel Fleet Trooper - also little sewing:

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/tantive/?yguid=122878206


Here is a group shot with my R2 in it ....and I am in Yavin Tech on the left..



My R2 at the Joliet Jackhammer game - this I wore Jedi...

and...some photos of R2's new friends..



more new friends:





One of my sentry posts...



And our group shot:




I have tons of other photos...but you get the idea..
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CTX32 ()



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome Droid, Static or RC ?
Thanks for the reply and we will get our outfits together soon.
I know what you mean about droid friendly crowds but we have been lucky so far that our droids have been undamaged.
Calvin
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_Master_Skywalker_ ()
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt, I do get where you are coming from and I certainly respect your thoughts on the issue, personally I think it would be ok as building an R2 is the same as building any costume except they cant fit into it. I think on occasions it is better if they are not costumed as they blend in with the crowd and it looks like R2 is "alive"

I would ONLY consider this ammendment for animatronic droids as they can be a costumed character in their own right and not just a prop.

Remember,R2 is a hero of the Rebellion Wink
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CTX32 ()



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although my droid is not complete, Meaning I need to finish the foot shells.
I was hoping to get in with you guys to help with events.
I would like to be part of a group that the politics of you cant do this and you cant do that takes all the fun out of being part of the group.
The R2 Builders Club is strict when it comes to certain things.
I know you guys have your own rules and there should be a guide line of any group.
We hope to become full members and if it takes waiting for the outfits to be created, Then it's worth the wait and I hope to meet some of you in the future.
Calvin
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTX32 wrote:
Awesome Droid, Static or RC ?
Thanks for the reply and we will get our outfits together soon.
I know what you mean about droid friendly crowds but we have been lucky so far that our droids have been undamaged.
Calvin


My R2 is static because I have to keep his weight down and have to take his legs off to bring him to events. I live by myself so I don't have anyone to help me load him up for events...I have to be able to handle him myself. Of course once I get to an event, there are always lots of people to help....but I still have to deal with loading and unloading at home.

I do have the motor and gear to make his dome move...I just haven't gotten it in there yet...lol...always a "work in progress". My R2 does speak and properly lights up.

If you need help down the road with either the Yavin Tech or RFT costume, please don't hesitate to ask me...


and....
indeed...
I think that is the one reason I feel strongly about R2 being a "member" on his own...
he is indeed one of the most important heros of the Rebellion...
Wink
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Mieal Deneb (Rachel Orange)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with making R2 a "member" of the Rebel Legion is one that many of the R2 Builders club members are sort of "afraid" of: Who writes the standards for R2? The Builders Club has always been the "go to" place to find the accurate way to make a R2-D2 (or any astromech for that matter). If the Rebel Legion accepted a R2-D2 into membership, how would they write the standards for what is a "good" droid and what is not?

A lot of the R2 builders club members would rather just bring their droid(s) to events when they are asked and not have to worry about RL or 501st membership. I personally think it works fine the way it is now. Of course, I'm a member of the R2 builders and the Rebel Legion, so there are no issues for me as far as getting access to event schedules.
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_Master_Skywalker_ ()
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd take council from the R2 builders on the standards as they are the experts on the subject. I'm sure RL LCJ's and R2 builders judges could find common ground on it.

I know we are about costuming, but we are about a little more than that too, we are about bringing real life screen accurate (as much as possible with face characters) to life for kids, charities & the general public. R2 is a genuine rebel character. In order to be classified as a member though, R2 would have to be able to "perform"as a member would in an event. IE: move, communicate etc..which is why I'd make allowances for animatronic R2's.

just my thoughts Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GotWookiee wrote:
In all these discussions about allowing droid builders in I've yet to see an actual droid builder involved in the discussion, just lots of "friends."

I can't speak for any staff members but I can't imagine anyone in command giving a poodoo about this if droid builders aren't not even interested enough to comment on the issue.


Sorry, I have not been on this forum for at least a month.
I am an R2 Builder but not an official member of any of the costuming groups.
Apparently you haven't read my thread titled "What are the differences between RL and R2 Builders?"
Or the other threads in this section also discussing this subject. (there are two or three posted here.)

The discussion came up on the R2 Builders forums as soon as the RL created this "Droids" section on your site.
And Frankly it was not received well. One reason is that the R2 Builders club does not want to become the same type of political system that the costuming clubs are. They do not want to have judges deciding who's droids are good enough and who's aren't. And I don't blame them at all for feeling that way.


GotWookiee wrote:
No, owning a droid does not qualify you for membership. However, some would like that to change.

Personally, I would like to see access to events granted to droid builders, but would not approve of granting them full membership with the ability to vote and hold office.

Thus far Phyllis is the only droid builder (that I am aware of) that has posted on this topic. I commend her for being unwilling to speak for others. The rest of you should follow her example.

Those of us who have held office in this club, especially the Legion Council, have seen this sort of thing many times before. Whether they are arguing for more relaxed standards or trying to start a base or outpost without enough members, there are always people claiming to represent the voices of many others who choose to remain silent. In the end it always turns out to be a bluff. Until you can back this up with people who actually have a horse in the race, no one will take this seriously a second time.

If we are to extend any kind of official privilege to droid builders it will require some sort of change to the charter, droid standards to determine what is and is not admissible and probably an LCJ for processing droid applications.

Getting on the boards and talking about how awesome it would be of droid builders could be members won't get you anywhere. If you want to make this happen, here is what you need to do:
  1. Get people with finished droids involved in the discussion. This is a public board, anyone who wants to make their voice heard doesn't need others to do it for them.
  2. Figure out what you want. Full membership? Events access? What?
  3. Write up a proposed amendment to the charter, write droid standards. Select someone for the office of Legion Droid Judge. Don't expect the LC to do all the leg work, do it yourself.

Anything less and you are just wasting your breath. I'm not saying that to be rude or insulting, just giving honest and accurate appraisal of the situation.


I speak now for myself only. Other R2 Builders can speak for themselves if they choose to do so.
To be honest, concerning my previous posts on this subject, I was treated by certain RL officials as a total outsider. Treated like I shouldn't even dare to make any such suggestion. In PM's I was also accused of simply wanting in to get access to the RL merchandise.
In one instance I was told that I could not order a single patch from one of our local events when I was directly represented on it. (A joint RL, 501st, Mercs, R2 Builders patch.)

I tell you, I've been a member of the R2 Builders for almost a decade now. I'm just now completing some droids. (are they ever really complete?) I enjoy going to the local RL and 501st charitable events to drive the droids around, and I enjoy hanging out with the local costumers.
However, I do not enjoy putting in more effort than many of the people in costumes that are officially representing the RL, and being denied recognition for my efforts. I do not enjoy being treated like a wanna-be by certain RL officials. I also do not enjoy telling other R2 Builders that want to participate, that they cannot click on the little tab that says they will be joining the others for an event because the RL doesn't officially recognise us.

I don't give a flip about your RL coffee mugs or T-shirts and the like.
I don't want to vote or hold office in the RL. I don't want R2-D2 to be granted an official member of the RL. (Neither does most other R2 Builder members from their responses posted on the R2 forums.)

I simply want some official recognition for my efforts in supporting the RL at RL events.
I want access to the planning forums for said events.
I want to be able to click on the little tab that shows I have registered to come to an event.
I would be perfectly happy with some sort of title "Friend of the RL" or "Ally of the RL".
And I do expect being allowed access to ordering/purchasing merchandise that R2 Builders are represented on.
(And it would be nice to get a couple of the local RL base patches that are offered.)

I didn't even consider proposing changes to the charter myself after the reaction I received from individuals in response to previous posts I had made on this subject. I personally would not know where to start in making changes. How much of the charter would need to be changed just to let us click the little tab for events???


And on another note not specifically related to R2 Builders,
You guys really need to make some way for new members to purchase costume pieces to complete a costume without being an official member. Allow them to purchase if they have a recommendation from the local base CO and XO or something. Telling new members that they can't purchase anything they NEED for a costume because they are not an offical RL member is a lousy way to welcome people into the fold!

David L. (AKA DroidWelder)

P.S. My Clone Wars R2 made his first steps at CV!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A5U5WgfQvc
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am a member of the R2 Builders Groups, since about 2000.

My opinion is that is is up to the 501st and RL to decided if R2 builders should be members. It is not my place to cry out to be allowed in as a full member. I did submit my droid fro membership once, and was rejected for being a droid and and a costume. I only submitted it to show that there is some interest out there.

Dan
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DroidWelder wrote:

And on another note not specifically related to R2 Builders,
You guys really need to make some way for new members to purchase costume pieces to complete a costume without being an official member. Allow them to purchase if they have a recommendation from the local base CO and XO or something. Telling new members that they can't purchase anything they NEED for a costume because they are not an offical RL member is a lousy way to welcome people into the fold!


I have posted this information at Astromech.net...
they are Yahoo Groups where you can go to get tutorials and links to purchase things that you need to complete a number of Rebel Trooper and Pilot costumes....you do have to join the Yahoo group to see the tutorials etc ...but you do not need to be a member of the RL or even join the RL to utilize the information. I only want people to register at the Yahoo Groups to try to prevent spammers....not sure it always works...but I do try....

The intent of these Yahoo groups is to assist those who don't have costumes.


Rebel Fleet Trooper:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/tantive/

Yavin Tech:


http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/yavinhangar/

All Hoth Costumes - Trench Trooper, Hangar Trooper and Hoth Tech:

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/yavinhangar/

Endor Commando and ROTJ Rebel Commander:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/endorbunker/

The X-Wing Pilots of Outlaw Squadron:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/outlawsquadron/



Hope this information helps...

And...as I had stated in one of my earlier posts...

not all Builders want to have a costume or care about it...

a few do..

I have done a staggering amount of events since 2001
( I did two events this weekend...one Saturday and one Sunday...Artoo accompanied me to both...both had Lucasfilm involvement- I don't always bring Artoo to all events)
and I can assure you...there are few costumes that "trump" R2...

I just feel that the RL is missing a great opportunity to provide SW Fans with one of the MOST iconic character in the "Rebellion" as part of their membership...

that being said...
I think I have pretty much conveyed my thoughts...
I am a member of 4 of the groups...(501st, RL, TJA, and R2 Builders)..
and..
one thing is certain...
each group has something to offer...
each group has GREAT people....and some that are not so great...

that is just the way it is...

Very Happy
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