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***Deliah Blue Resources***
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RoninJedi (Ann Marie)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: ***Deliah Blue Resources*** Reply with quote

So, I've been doing tons of research to prepare for making a Deliah Blue costume. The biggest problem I'm having is that there are some inconsistencies in the original artwork itself. There will be small discrepancies in coloring, which I can usually chalk up to shadows. But her iconic gauntlets get drawn about three different ways, and I don't think they are supposed to be different sets of gauntlets, the artist is just varying details based on how close up he is to it, and how much he remembers of how he drew them last time.

Even her eye color shows up as violet, pink, and even blue gray. Wookipedia says they are violet, but that's the color that appears the least amount of times. I know Zeltron's skin changes darkness depending on mood, do their eyes change too? I haven't found anything to suggest that yet.

Anyway, I'm just trying to get feedback, because I want to do this accurately and get some CRLs set for at least her iconic, first issue cover outfit. The approach I've been taking is looking at all the appearances and kinda averaging them together, or in the case of the eyes picking the most often occurrence (Pink).

Does the RL have a way of dealing with this sort of issue? Or am I going to be told she's not approvable because the artist took too much of an artistic license?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best advice I can give you is to gather the information you have and talk to you LCJ of that catagory and discuss your plans and ideas with them to figure out what they think is the right way to go. The last thing you need to do is waste allot of time and find out you have an LCJ who thinks the "other way" is right!

GL, looks like a fun one!

Bob
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padme911 (Becca K)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Delilah Blue, I found this image:
and this one:


Those look fairly close(a few colors look different). If you have a 3rd one from another comic or book or magazine, it could be considered formal. FYI we do not call them CRLs. Here in the RL, they are called Costuming Standards. I would also suggest submitting your 3 references with your application and then we can judge what we receive.
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Jaina ()
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heya!

WOW, somebody else is a big Legacy fan! I'm working on an Azlyn Rae at the moment.

It's quite simple actually because my green jumpsuit Jaina was also a costume not submitted beforehand in the legion. A big part of what makes or breaks an EU costume is whether you can "pull it off" and whether you have captured the feel of the character.

Sounds vague, I know. But think about it this way - the art is done in a 2D medium (except for the action figure). While the costume should ideally be a "happy marriage" of all the reference pictures you have, you can and you should try to give it an "in universe" feeling as much as possible. That means that you pick fabrics that are seen in the movies (ie think leather for the black parts rather than spandex as seen in superhero comics), perhaps look at her belt holster design and give it some influence from those carried by Han Solo and other smugglers, etc. Hopefully you get my point.

Please do ask or PM me if you have any questions or need help. I'm not working on a Deliah myself but as Azlyn took me hours of research and I'm still flipping through comics and finding details (I'd STRONGLY recommend scanning and printing the pages where certain angles of her are shown) I'm sure I can be of assistance somehow. A big piece of advice would be after you've printed them, cut out her pictures and place them all next to each other on the table and just... look. It's amazing what you can find when you focus on her and her alone. Not Cade, not the story, not the background art. Just her.

Good luck! Very Happy
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Daritha (Christian)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can show us a picture of the particular outfit you want to make I'm sure I can get you some nice hi-res shots from the comics for research. With Deliah, there's the problem that this party girl wears a dozen different outfits during the course of the comics.

Jaina wrote:
A big piece of advice would be after you've printed them, cut out her pictures and place them all next to each other on the table and just... look. It's amazing what you can find when you focus on her and her alone. Not Cade, not the story, not the background art. Just her.

Good luck! Very Happy
Hey, how do you know what I'm doing in my spare time? Laughing

RoninJedi wrote:
I know Zeltron's skin changes darkness depending on mood, do their eyes change too? I haven't found anything to suggest that yet.
Don't be confusing it with the Falleen. Zeltrons don't change their skin color. Falleen's changing theirs in dependence of their mood.

To the inconsistencies: These are often simple mistakes. Jan Duursema just draw the pictures in black-and-white. Colorists doing the painting job. And if the communication between both parties is poor then this kind of mistake happens. A big one was in Legacy #7 when we saw Marasiah Fel and not Deliah Blue in bed with Cade. This was corrected in the Trade Paperback.

Jaina has given some nice hints. Your costume should be "real-world ready". If you want to make a Jedi then your robe can't be 2 meters in length. Just think of stairs of simple things like walking. You would always fall over you feets. The same with some dresses of the ladies who are looking good but aren't usable if you want to breath. ^^
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WookieeGunner ()
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you don't have a scanner, post which pics from which issues you want to use as your basis. I'm sure there are several of us who have both comics and scanners that might be able to help you out.
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RoninJedi (Ann Marie)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

padme911 wrote:

FYI we do not call them CRLs. Here in the RL, they are called Costuming Standards.


Sorry, I'll try to make sure not to mix my jargon.

padme911 wrote:
I would also suggest submitting your 3 references with your application and then we can judge what we receive.


Can I submit Costume standards with references before I actually construct and apply? I'm just concerned about being able to find enough of the same fabric to update it if there are any concerns with the standards.


Jaina wrote:


A big piece of advice would be after you've printed them, cut out her pictures and place them all next to each other on the table and just... look. It's amazing what you can find when you focus on her and her alone. Not Cade, not the story, not the background art. Just her.

Good luck! Very Happy


Thanks, I have an image gallery on my computer of all the instances of her wearing the same outfit that I could find.

Daritha wrote:
Don't be confusing it with the Falleen. Zeltrons don't change their skin color. Falleen's changing theirs in dependence of their mood.

To the inconsistencies: These are often simple mistakes. Jan Duursema just draw the pictures in black-and-white. Colorists doing the painting job. And if the communication between both parties is poor then this kind of mistake happens. A big one was in Legacy #7 when we saw Marasiah Fel and not Deliah Blue in bed with Cade. This was corrected in the Trade Paperback.


Ha, I guess I just wanted to help explain in my head why her skin color varies so wildly. I've seen the original of Legacy #7 with the wrong coloring, hehe, yeah definite communication breakdown.

I'll post some of the inconsistencies/problem areas I've seen in a little bit.
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RoninJedi (Ann Marie)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking back through it I've found that most of the inconsistencies I found were in coloring (another post to follow shortly). Except for the gauntlets that change details ALL the time, but they are always something along the lines of "wide gold bracelets with large purple oval gemstone with raised gold detail" At least I think that would be a good way to phrase it for costume standards?



I collected as many images as I could of a similar style of gauntlets that I plan to fashion mine like. Because there are some really frilly looking ones and totally geometric ones, but I guess for standards we can't get more specific than I did above, right?

Harsh line geometric version:



And the more organic, swirly, filigree version:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoninJedi wrote:
Can I submit Costume standards with references before I actually construct and apply? I'm just concerned about being able to find enough of the same fabric to update it if there are any concerns with the standards.


Yes you can but when we write standards, we rarely include types of fabrics. For example, we never say leather b/c it can be expensive and limit who can do the costume. We try to give descriptions of fabrics rather than fabric types as what one person calls satin someone else calls charmeuse and there is not even consistency among good fabric websites and fabric descriptions on sites can be deceiving. As for the jargon, I always have to remember what CRLs stand for and it does not make sense to me and makes me look for my library card. We are a club that has costuming standards to gain admission and not libraries....see my point? Razz It is just another way our approval systems differ.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to color inconsistencies. It seems like the colorist likes to switch blue and black a lot, which I guess is an easy mistake. There's also a lot of change in where the green and black are on her top.

For example:



becomes this:




Now the second image is clearly in a darker room, but if you look at her pants the inside color actually looks like a dark blue, which to me means the colorist inverted the black and blue. Yet in the dark room he managed to clearly show the green panel on the top, whereas in the first image he colored it black with green highilights. Argh.

I guess I'm probably nit-picking with a lot of this stuff, but for me I need to know that I'm making as accurate of a replica as possible. And there's details I'm going to do that probably can't be included in the Costume Standards, but I want to help make them as accurate as I can.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand. In addition, to the standard, you can always do a tutorial as well. That way you can show all the details you did that are a bit too specific for the standard. Amadalia
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

padme911 wrote:

Yes you can but when we write standards, we rarely include types of fabrics. For example, we never say leather b/c it can be expensive and limit who can do the costume. We try to give descriptions of fabrics rather than fabric types as what one person calls satin someone else calls charmeuse and there is not even consistency among good fabric websites and fabric descriptions on sites can be deceiving.


I understand the "type of fabric" thing for standards. I just meant that I've already purchased my fabrics and I don't have enough to remake the outfit if it's decided that something I say as an "inconsistency" is ruled to be the accurate coloring instead, and I doubt I can get the same fabric again because I got it at a bargain loft. I don't think that the coloring will be a problem because I've put a lot of time into my research, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

padme911 wrote:
I understand. In addition, to the standard, you can always do a tutorial as well. That way you can show all the details you did that are a bit too specific for the standard. Amadalia


That's a good idea, I probably will. I'm still in the research and collecting materials stage because I have other projects before it in my queue. But I'm excited about it and want to get things as prepared as possible, i.e. things like Costume Standards.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yepp, these are some bugging inconsistencies but remember: It's a comic! Look at Starkiller in his comic version and the TFU game version. These are worlds!

In general, I would say: Stick to the latest clothing style since the newer releases outdates the older ones officially. And use the style that's more real-life. Esp. for Deliah, there're some "interesting" clothes on her body. A friend of mine once said to her bikini in "Loyalties": The will of the Force hold this thing on her body. *giggle*

EDIT:

I know I'm not helping but I stumbled over the Deliah picture in the Legacy Era Campaign Guide. Look at her trousers. These one are not completely but slightly different to the ones in the comics.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daritha wrote:


EDIT:

I know I'm not helping but I stumbled over the Deliah picture in the Legacy Era Campaign Guide. Look at her trousers. These one are not completely but slightly different to the ones in the comics.



Yeah, her pants have the panels shaped differently and different widths and they reversed the yellow and black. She's not wearing her gauntlets, which she always does with that outfit in the comics. Her hair is probably a good foot longer than usual. Her boots are shorter and black instead of purple. And there's no green in her top at all. :SIGH:

I actually really like how she looks in this version, but this is the only time she looks quite like that. I'm working on a set of preliminary costume standards by looking at the way this outfit appears most often in Legacy. It's just frustrating, because her top will appear one way 4 times and her pants one way for 4 times, but those four times might not be at the same time! :-P Ah well, babbling, but you get the point, paying attention to all the details is making me a little crazy.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very interested to hear whatever progress you make as this is one of the costumes on my "To-Do" list. Wink Smile
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