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What are the differences between RL and R2 Builders?
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DroidWelder ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject: What are the differences between RL and R2 Builders? Reply with quote

There appears to be some misinformation and misunderstandings regarding how the R2 Builders Club is structured, organized, and interacts with the costuming clubs. I have taken it upon myself to inform all of you of the differences between the costuming clubs and the R2 Builders community. Attitudes towards R2 Builders are not always favorable among some of the costuming club members, and really needs to be addressed on the Legion level.
I write this as independent of the R2 Builders Club, and will explain why below. Some of the issues and differences I have listed between R2 Builders and the RL/501st clubs are written in general and may not be the case with all bases or Garrisons.

What's the difference between the R2 Builders Club and the Costuming Clubs?

The purpose of the R2 Builders club (and other droid related off-shoots) is solely to exchange information and assist other members in the construction of droid replicas.

Unlike the costuming clubs, there are no requirements for membership other than the desire to build droids. Anyone may sign up on the forums and get full access to the club's plans, reference materials, club made parts, and any merchandise that is being offered.
The only real rules that must be followed are to keep the club plans, parts, and merchandise within the club, to ask permission for the use or copying of other member's work (club logo, parts, plans, ect...) and not to build droid replicas for sale or profit.

The R2 Builders club has no hierarchical structure like the costuming clubs. Other than forum moderators and owners, no member outranks the others, though you will find senior and prominent members that take charge in club matters and the production of droid parts.

When it comes to R2 Builder members using their droids for events, you will usually find that the individual is already a member of either the 501st or the RL, already has access to their Base or Garrison forums, and often participates in that capacity. However, for those of us who are not members of any of the costuming clubs, each of us acts as an independent. The individual will usually represent themselves as an R2 Builder, however, the R2 Builders Club does not promote it's individual members, nor does it take responsibility for their actions at such events.
You will not find an appearance request form on the R2 Builders websites, and members are not officially required or encouraged to use their droids for any such events or appearances.

For those of us who choose to bring our droids and participate in RL and 501st events, unless we are contacted directly by event organizers, we rely on information about those events from the RL and 501st forums and it's members. Info about events does not normally come through the R2 Builders Club. While one of our forums does have an “Events” thread, it is mostly used for organizing local droid workshops and gatherings, larger gatherings of it's members such as the Celebration conventions, and to showcase any public events that individual members have participated in that have already concluded. Anyone is free to register an account on astromech.net and make a post in the Events forum looking for R2 Builders in their area if they need a droid for an event, though this rarely occurs and often times there may not be anyone in that particular area or available on the time/date wanted.

R2 Builders Club merchandise is not nearly as common as merchandise produced by the costuming clubs. It is usually very rare and typically only becomes available in preparations for the Celebration conventions or other special events where large numbers of R2 Builder members will be gathering. Most other R2 Builder merchandise that you will see is produced in small quantities for personal use on local levels.

While you will find many cross-over members from the costuming clubs, the R2 Builders Club also has taken a stance not to promote any of the costuming clubs or the sale of their merchandise on it's forums. The forums are strictly for building droids.

In the case of a multi-club event where all clubs will be promoted equally, merchandise offered and sold with the mention or logos of each club on them, We as R2 Builder members and independent operators still rely on the RL and 501st forums for the information to order such merchandise at the local level. Such merchandise will not be offered on the R2 Builders Club forums.

Since the RL and 501st restrict access to non-members for all merchandise (and event info in the case of the 501st forums), we as R2 Builders members may often be left out of the loop. For many of us R2 Builder members that wish to bring their droids and participate in events alongside the costuming clubs, it is our desire to be treated as colleagues rather than outsiders and be afforded some sort of special membership to the costuming clubs so that we may have access to such information and be allowed (if we so choose) to officially register on your forums for said events as participants. As independent droid operators we feel that we should be as qualified as any other official member of the costuming clubs since the amount of time, effort, and money involved in building a droid may often far exceed that of any costume. Our desire to bring smiles to the faces of the public also should not in any way be viewed differently than that desire for official members of the costuming clubs.

A few of the 501st Garrisons have already adopted R2 Builder members with a "Friend of the Legion" or similar title, though I do not know if that afforded them any special privileges or access to restricted information. (I do know of a couple of the Garrisons that have given local R2 Builders access to their event planning threads.)

I write this as an independent entity since a request like this would not be endorsed by the R2 Builders Club. There are many R2 Builder members that think there should be a definite separation between the clubs. I can understand, and don't entirely disagree with their viewpoint. Most of those individuals expressed their objections when the RL decided to create a Droid forum, either on the R2 Builder forums, and some even posted their objections on the RL Droids forum. Most all of the members with that viewpoint have already been approved members of the costuming clubs for a long time. They seem to not understand some of the inconveniences that us non RL and 501st members face when joining you to participate in events.


If you are wondering what my status is among the R2 Builders community, I would like to think that I am a regular contributor. I often make and supply droid parts to other members, I regularly post on the R2 Builder forums, and I also wrote the majority of the FAQ page on Astromech.net.

David L. (DroidWelder)


Last edited by DroidWelder () on Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wolfie (Crystal Bass)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant you just locally get with people making the patch and buy it directly from them? if you were at the event it makes sense that you would have contact to these people directly. Or someone could give you one. Its not against the rules to give merch to anyone, it just LFL gave us rights to use logos and such with the absolute rule of not selling it to anyone not a member of the organization and to not make a profit. Its not that we want to be jerks, its just what we HAVE to do.

Trading your groups merch for 501st/RL merch is a common practice as well and you could offer a trade in the forum....

Or you could build and RL costume and be a member with full access to all types of merch. In this case I understand it says R2 Builders on the patch as well, so you may just have to go directly to the source in buy one... but in other cases there are many people in other groups who want to buy our merch but dont want to make a costume. I dont understand that at all. Why have something that represents something that you dont like enough to even join? You being a general term in this case.

Like even mentioned R2 builders merch isnt really offered to RL members and 501st members on a regular basis either. So what about members here who would want that as well? The 501st and the RL worked out where members of either could get merch from both... So many times you can find RL patch runs for sale over there too now.
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DroidWelder ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crystal,
This is not simply about the patch. I posted this to dispell any misinformation or misunderstanding about how R2 Builders operate.
When several costume club members including yourself say "the R2 Builders can do this or that", it's not that simple and many times we can't do this or that.

Yes I can easily get the patch through the locals. As for R2 Builders merch, what little is made of it is out there. But it's rare for large quantities of any of it to be made as per the forum owners and logo owners wishes.

David L.


Last edited by DroidWelder () on Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wolfie (Crystal Bass)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DroidWelder wrote:
Crystal,
This is not simply about the patch. I posted this to dispell any misinformation or misunderstanding about how R2 Builders operate.
When several costume club members including yourself say "the R2 Builders can do this or that", it's not that simple and many times we can't do this or that.

Yes I can easily get the patch though the locals. As for R2 Builders merch, what little is made of it is out there. But it's rare for large quantities of any of it to be made as per the forum owners and logo owners wishes.

David L.


Ok, understandable. It ws just confusing it comes up after the patch thing, and it talks about merch through half the post. I think a lot of members of other groups also dont realize our merch rules are the way they are in most respects due to LFL rules.

But it is good information , thanks for presenting it. Its good to know you cannot get your own merch from your own website or cross sell joint merch.
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DroidWelder ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfie wrote:

.... Its good to know you cannot get your own merch from your own website or cross sell joint merch.


Just to clarify: R2 Builder Members can get R2 Builder merch through the R2 Builders forums when it is sanctioned by the forum owners and the owner of the club logo. (Most cross-over members already have this merch.) However, as I said this is a rare occurance. Most merch you will see is only made in small quantities by local groups of R2 Builders for their personal use. (As per the request of the club logo owner.)

Edit: The R2 Builders Club also has to follow LFL rules. One of those rules is not to make large amounts of R2BC merchadise, or distribute it outside of the club.

David L.


Last edited by DroidWelder () on Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wolfie (Crystal Bass)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you allowed to post it for sale here?
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DroidWelder ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything with the club logo is not supposed to be sold outside of the club. But like you we can trade, and I guess many of the crossover members have done or will do that. Most of the merch sanctioned and produced by the club has been branded with the Celelbrations on it, since that's the one time that most of us are able to gather together. Only one official R2 patch has ever been offered. So you may find a few of those floating around. Mostly it's just T-shirts or Polos that are offered. I think there was a run of baseball caps a few years ago.

David L.
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WedgeAntilles (James Norman)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've said it elsewhere here, but as far as I'm concerned an R2 droid in my eyes is remote controlled costume because lets face it, very very few of us are small enough to fit in one like Kenny Baker. I think allowing them as members if they wish to join and participate is a great idea as I think the more astromechs the merrier.

I realize that they're not costumes in the traditional sense but they bring so much to any event that it behooves everyone to include them as much as possible.

I'd like to see fuller cooperation between willing builders and the RL & 501st whether that operator owns a costume for themselves or not.

Granted I think that they fit better with the RL than the 501st, lets face it Imperial Astromechs are few and far between and as far as Republic Astromechs go... Well, I think that falls in the same category as Clones where they in general overlap. Except for Artoo of course.

I've only seen three characters ever outshine Darth Vader at events. Bob's Chewbacca, Tom's 3P0, and Darryl's purple R2. You get the last two together and you have a bonafide traffic jam.

Granted, Darryl has costumes of his own, but I'd be just as proud to troop with him and his R2 if he didn't. Heck we had some R2 builder that I'd never seen before and never had the chance to talk to him at Star Wars in Concert, but he didn't have a costume and he blended completely into the crowd while he hid R2's controls in his messenger bag. Total pro because most of us took a while to figure out that the guy who was the owner was the only guy in the crowd by R2 not really moving anywhere.

Anyways, thanks for sharing the point of view from your side, its great to see your experience from your point of view.
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edgejedi (Jase Fox)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats a great personal overview of the R2 Builders David, thanks!

We have a few R2 builders in the UK who we enjoy working with and who love trooping with RL UK at our events. We give them full access to our forums events section and treat them exactly as you had described, so Im pleased we think alike.

I couldnt see why anyone would treat them otherwise...but I guess that some do. Thats a shame, for all the amazing hard work they put in to build the astromechs of the republic - which we of course stand for!

Heres to more great events and a budding relationship!

R2 with the RL UK and Betsy from APT at the SW Concert World Premiere back in April last year


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DroidWelder ()



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone will agree that the droids obviously bring something more to events than just the costuming clubs do alone.

For those that may have missed my point, or other R2 Builders who don't share my views, I just wanted to clarify something before they read this and start debating over my post. I'm not asking for the RL to make astromechs members or necessarily give the R2 builders the full benefits of all the officially approved members. When I choose to bring a droid to events with the local RL base, I volunteer just as much of my time, energy, and fuel to get there and help the charities that the base is currently promoting, that any other approved RL member does. Often times it can be just as much or more work dealing with a droid than it is putting on a costume. Even though I am not wearing a costume, it would be nice to have some sort of official recognition as a representative of the RL or local base for those of us who choose to associate themselves and share in the charity work. The RL certainly benefits and gets credit for the events and monies brought in to charity where droids have participated.
As it stands, R2 Builder individuals officially have no connection with the RL and we cannot even register and be counted for an event.

There will always be people that say they want to sign up and come here only for what they can get out of selfishness. The fact that R2 Builders spend so much time and effort building and perfecting their droids should not be taken lightly by the RL or 501st officials. Just because we don't have costumes does not mean that we're only trying to get your merchandise. That's not why I hang out with the local base members or why I post these messages.

David L.
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Mieal Deneb (Rachel Orange)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then there are people like me, I joined the R2 Builders just before CII because I HAD to have a R2-D2 and I realized the R2 Builders' club was the best place to find out how to make the best R2 (it IS!). At CII I learned about the Rebel Legion and then joined...because I LOVE Star Wars costuming. I bring my R2 to Rebel Legion/501st events that I costume. It's the best of both worlds. Mr. Green
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catwmn (Syrena Edmonds)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mieal Deneb wrote:
Then there are people like me, I joined the R2 Builders just before CII because I HAD to have a R2-D2 and I realized the R2 Builders' club was the best place to find out how to make the best R2 (it IS!). At CII I learned about the Rebel Legion and then joined...because I LOVE Star Wars costuming. I bring my R2 to Rebel Legion/501st events that I costume. It's the best of both worlds. Mr. Green


That is cool Rachel, that is how we got involved with the 501st & RL, joined the R2 builders first, then the RL, and then I had to have armor and joined the 501st. Our little group of builders has a great relationship with both groups here and do almost all events together with no problems!
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rmeyer ()



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Thanks David- Reply with quote

I just found this thread and I think it gives a pretty good overview of our (The R2 Builder's) approach. As one or two long time RL members might know, I had a droid long before I heard of the 501st, the RL or the R2 Builders Group. I had built it for a two-night Halloween show and after that it just sat in my house year after year collecting dust and just serving as an interesting conversation piece on the rare occasion I would have guests over. When I was finally approached to appear in a fan film, and then later as part of a wedding party, a whole new purpose for building these things opened up for me.

Making appearances with these droids- especially those for charitible causes- is to me ten times more rewarding than simply building them and perhaps sharing them with other club members. Once I got more familiar with the various club activites and started showing up at events it was more satisfying than I ever dreamed it could be. I appreciate every opportunity to appear with any of the clubs and I hope my being there continues to be a welcome and valuable enhancement.

Sometimes when I have appeared with other costumed characters I have heard one or two off-handed comments like "oh well- here come the droids to steal our thunder"- but I think, and I sincerely hope they are just joking. I feel that our droids are just another integral part in the Star Wars universe we wish to portray. They might be popular, but I know they would not have near the draw without the troopers, mercs, jedis, jawas and such milling about with them. When I see group pictures from events here and there I know we are all meant to do this together, and I for one will continue to support and promote any inter-club activities.

Likewise I will always appreciate and pursue any opportunity to be included in either RL or 501st events, and I hope to be doing so for a long time.

Rob
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all!
I'm new here and a member over at the R2 Builders. I've been researching a "droid tech" costume to wear when trooping with the RL in the future. I'm currently in dialogue with Claudio at custom-props trying to find a color match for him to do Yavin Hangar tech suits - imo the perfect costume for a droidwrangler. Mark Bradley (Jedi Mickey here, Bradleyfett over at astromech.net) mentioned that the RL is positive to allow Rebel Techs without the helmet as long as the jumpsuit is as accurate as possible (for much of the hangar scenes they don't wear the helmet). This makes costuming, and thus full membership, here at the RL very easy for us Astromechanics. Yay! I'll post on both forums when color for the jumpsuits is settled. As of now Claudio can do them in khaki but me and Mark deemed the color a bit on the dark side (! Very Happy ) so the quest continues...

Lasse
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Mieal Deneb (Rachel Orange)
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may want to talk with Phyllis (Schph Gochi) of Nar Shaddaa Base she's made the Rebel Tech costume. It is essentially the same as the flight suit only a light tanish greyish color. I'm hoping someone will do a run of hydrospanners, it would be the pefect accessory for this costume and droid builders!

http://costumesandartwork.blogspot.com/2008/03/at-at-driverpilot-coveralls.html

http://costumesandartwork.blogspot.com/2008/12/x-wing-flight-suit.html

http://costumesandartwork.blogspot.com/2010/03/x-wing-mini-tutorial.html
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