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Endor Rebel Trooper (ROTJ) revision
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Msuaaronc ()



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct me if I am wrong, but the webbing for the endor trooper is US m56 web gear (belt, m16 pouches, compass pouches, butt pack) with some US m67 ammo pouches (plastic clip). It's all Vietnam issue and makes sense since endor was filmed in the US.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Msuaaronc wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the webbing for the endor trooper is US m56 web gear (belt, m16 pouches, compass pouches, butt pack) with some US m67 ammo pouches (plastic clip). It's all Vietnam issue and makes sense since endor was filmed in the US.



You are probably correct about the pouches but I am not a hundred percent sure. I am more familiar with the Rogue One troopers.

The belt is not a US M56 belt. The M56 belt has a ball-type buckle and many grommets. The belt used in ROTJ is a simple olive green webbing belt with a black metal slider buckle similar to some riggers belts.



US M56 belt






Belts use in ROTJ














Rigger belts


https://www.rothco.com/product/rothco-military-riggers-belt


https://www.rothco.com/product/rothco-heavy-duty-riggers-duty-belt
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Costumes: Jawa, RFT ANH, Signals Intelligence Technician, Rebel Vanguard (Hasbro), EA BF1 Female DRT, R1 Senior Officer A, Yavin Operations Officer, Yavin Operations Trooper, Scarif Marine

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Last edited by PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss) on Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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BigFatCat (Geoff Hawley)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there reference images of troopers showing belts in any clarity, of a higher resolution of what we have already seen?
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Niall ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigFatCat wrote:
Are there reference images of troopers showing belts in any clarity, of a higher resolution of what we have already seen?


Not that many. The best images are from the costume book or if you can grab anything from 4k screencaps. But any web-style belt will work for approval.
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Niall ()
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigFatCat wrote:
Are there reference images of troopers showing belts in any clarity, of a higher resolution of what we have already seen?


Not that many. The best images are from the costume book or if you can grab anything from 4k screencaps. But I think any web-style belt of this type should work for approval.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a promotion photo of Luke with some ERTs online. I also went to starwarsscreencaps.com and downloaded some of their 4K references. There is never a clear screencap of the belt buckles but I can see that the belt is just regular olive green webbing. It does not have grommets like an M56 belt. I am pretty sure that the ERTs in the movie wear the same belts as the ones in the promotion photo because the Millenium Falcon Turret Gunners from the deleted scene wear the same belts.

























Falcon Gunners







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Last edited by PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss) on Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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BigFatCat (Geoff Hawley)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we proposing the belt to be 38-50mm plain olive webbing with a slide/triglide buckle? Canvas looks more like the thickness in the refs but I would expect either could suffice.

In the Ackbar and Madine briefing scene, there are plenty of troopers not wearing headgear. Some don't seem to have it about their person either.

https://i2.wp.com/caps.pictures/198/4k-swreturnjedi/full/4k-swreturnjedi-starwarsscreencaps.com-8570.jpg

Big step to not require one of those though, it's the signature piece of the costume really for me.

Are there any other areas of contention? We know you can't just pick up trousers with accurate pockets but a tan or light khaki BDU properly sprayed look the part and is the way the majority of us appear at present.

Donuts can have painted or physical indents, even though I haven't seen a reference with a physical indent in it but we have established user bases so I don't have an issue with either.

I have no issue with retiring Holiday Green from the colour list and stipulating a minimum of 20% of a base garment is base tan.

Can we agree on updating the overall summary and working through the list of components?
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigFatCat wrote:
Are we proposing the belt to be 38-50mm plain olive webbing with a slide/triglide buckle? Canvas looks more like the thickness in the refs but I would expect either could suffice.


Yes, I propose the belt should be changed into 38-50mm plain olive webbing with a slide buckle. It does not matter if the belt strap is cotton, canvas, or synthetic. We clearly have evidence for this because of Blue Ray and 4K screencaps as well as additional photos from books.

BigFatCat wrote:

In the Ackbar and Madine briefing scene, there are plenty of troopers not wearing headgear. Some don't seem to have it about their person either.

https://i2.wp.com/caps.pictures/198/4k-swreturnjedi/full/4k-swreturnjedi-starwarsscreencaps.com-8570.jpg

Big step to not require one of those though, it's the signature piece of the costume really for me.


I propose to change the helmet to an optional item. I have three reasons for that. First off all we clearly see that some ERTs do not wear their helmets in the briefing scene so there is evidence. Secondly, the Falcon gunner CS, OT pilot, and ST pilot CSes have optional helmets because the characters can be seen without helmets so RL already set precedent in the CS as well. I do not see a reason that we cannot update all RAID trooper CS to optional helmets where there are supporting screencaps. Thirdly, making the helmet optional would open up this costume for alien characters that can wear human gloves and boots, such as the Sullustan.




BigFatCat wrote:

Are there any other areas of contention? We know you can't just pick up trousers with accurate pockets but a tan or light khaki BDU properly sprayed look the part and is the way the majority of us appear at present.


I think we should write the CS in a way that allows tan, or khaki BDU pants that are painted it the correct ERT colors for basic approval but also add the information on the correct pocket shape and placement in the optional area so that people can make more accurate pants if they want to do that.




BigFatCat wrote:

Donuts can have painted or physical indents, even though I haven't seen a reference with a physical indent in it but we have established user bases so I don't have an issue with either.


Do you mean the black stripes on the back of the donuts? The stripes are clearly painted on in the movie. I think painting on, as well as physical indents, should be allowed because one is what they supposed to be in the movie and the other is how it was accomplished in the movie. It is similar to the vents on the OT Stormtroopers.







BigFatCat wrote:

I have no issue with retiring Holiday Green from the colour list and stipulating a minimum of 20% of a base garment is base tan.

Can we agree on updating the overall summary and working through the list of components?



I do not have an opinion about the colors because I have not bought the colors or started making my husband's ERT and my ERT yet. I just think that it is important that the colors look similar to our reference.
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G'nott sH'urr (David Campbell)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We discussed removing helmets, several years back. No clear decision was made but now that we are several years down the line with new movies, we need to seriously consider making helmets optional. To me, it will cldearly weaken the trooper image, but there is canon evidence that not all troopers wore helmets all the time.

Boushh also had painted stripes on the back of the helmet like the ERC. Someone at the prop shop was in a helmet painting frenzy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked over the proposal and I dont see it, but Id like to see something along this line added:

"approximately 20% of the original trouser base color remains unpainted"

we see a lot of applicants that completely cover their trousers with camo paint, leaving none of the oringal color.
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BigFatCat (Geoff Hawley)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That 20% figure has appeared a few times and it does seem appropriate. I'd extend the wording to include all trousers, dusters and parkas. I don't want to make a sprawling rolling list of proposal texts so we need to centralise the wording with agreed edits in a single post.

Last roll the ball again. If we start at the top of the proposal list, item 1 is the donut. The last comment posted was:

1. DONUT HELMET
- Soft-cap: AN-H 15 flight helmet or replica with ribbed strip on top. Black ovoid ear pieces and cheek piece hardware is exposed. Cheek piece is covered with a darker beige and brown leather-like material and has snap buttons.

- Dark or olive green rigid donut ring. Egg-shape from overhead with recessed back. The back has 8-10 1-12mm wide indented or painted vents.
- May have referenced red and yellow insignia on left front, 1.30 to 2 o'clock.
- May have paint chips, dents and other weathering effects.

- Tan cloth bill attached to cap or bottom of donut.

Shirt wise:

If you're wearing the parka or duster, you'll never see the shirt sleeves. These could be either short or long. If you wear the vest, then long sleeves are a must.

2. SHIRT
- Tan/Beige/Sand tee-shirt with round/crew elastic neck
- Long-sleeved under vest. long or short for parka and duster options.

Your witness.
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Niall ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm planning on going through and writing all the proposed updates in a single post so we can narrow our focus. Life's been a bit busy so I just haven't had the time to go through it completely.
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kman ()
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I haven't seen mentioned:

Quote:
2. SHIRT
- Tan/Beige/Sand tee-shirt
- Long-sleeved with elastic neck


There's no elastic in that neck. That's just ribbed fabric. Standard t-shirt construction.
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BigFatCat (Geoff Hawley)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niall wrote:
I just haven't had the time to go through it completely.


That wasn't a dig, that's not what I do so please don't feel any ill from that.
It's a systemic issue where a post is tied to a single user and that becomes a pinch point in workflow. If more than one user could edit a single, publicly visible post in here it would allow a spread workload and maintain visibility without having to host it externally.
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Niall ()
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've updated the proposal with all the comments. Please see if there's anything I missed.

OPEN DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
1. Should pistol belts with grommets be acceptable? Many current costumes have these.
2. Should helmets be optional? There are some troopers who don't wear them in the film, but it is the iconic item of the costume.

__________________________


ENDOR REBEL TROOPER (ROTJ)

1. DONUT HELMET
- AN-H 15 flight helmet (or replica) with ribbed strip on top.
- Black ovoid ear pieces and cheek piece hardware is exposed. Cheek piece is covered with darker beige/brown leather (or similar) material and has snap buttons
- Dark green rigid donut ring. Oblong shape from above with leather cheek pieces with recessed back.
- Recessed back has 8-10 vent details approximately 10mm wide. Vents may be painted or iindented.
- Cloth bill may be attached to cap, attached to bottom of donut, or be integral to donut.
- May have red and yellow insignia on right front quarter or left side

2. SHIRT
- Tan/Beige/Sand tee-shirt
- Long-sleeved with ribbed neck
- Short-sleeved is acceptable if not visible under duster or anorak

3. TORSO (choose one)
3A. CAMOUFLAGE* DUSTER
- Calf/Ankle length
- Modern double lapel
- Slit up back reaches to waist
- Two bellows pockets on hips
- May have pointed tab across slit at butt level
3B. CAMOUFLAGE* ANORAK
- Long-sleeved hooded jacket
- Waist length with drawstring at waist
3C. TAN VEST
- Straight opening with no lapel or collar
- No closure method
- Capped sleeve covers deltoid
- Waist band approximately 2 inches high
- Quilted panel on front of right shoulder with vertical overstitching
- Front slash pockets
- Darker material than tee-shirt
3D. ANORAK AND VEST
- Vest worn over anorak with hood exposed

4. GLOVES
- Light colored work gloves
- May have elastic or drawstring on back of wrist

5. CAMOUFLAGE* PANTS
- Exterior patch pocket on hips are similar to flight suits
- Bellows pocket on each thigh
- Bellows pocket on each side of rear
- BDU style pants are acceptable


6. WEB BELT
- Olive webbed rigger style belt with slide buckle
- Metal or plastic buckles are acceptable
- May have metal grommets. Military-style pistol belts are acceptable

7. CANVAS BELT POUCHES (at least three of two types)
Military-style pouches may include the following onscreen examples:
- Canvas M14 magazine pouch
- Canvas compass pouch
- Canvas butt pack
- Spanish Mauser magazine pouch (leather or similar)
- Nylon entrenching tool pouch (this is the only acceptable nylon pouch)

8. BOOTS
- Desert style combat or hiking boots
- Tan/Sand upper with brown/beige sole
- Sole is molded with thick “lug” tread
- Sole continues over top covering approximately 1/2 inch of toe
- Original Sierra brand boots are long out of production so similar boots are acceptable

9. GAITERS
- Cotton or canvas tube that covers from bridge of foot to above mid calf
- Dip on back that covers part of heel
- Covers most of boot laces
- 5-9 sets of eyelets depending on wearer
- Laces on front of shin (costume displays showed this incorrectly)
- Olive, brown, or gray laces. Original material is unknown but olive paracord is acceptable

10. BLASTER (choose one where allowed by law)
A280 “Endor rifle” with leather sling
DH-17 (ROTJ style)
E-11

11. OPTIONAL ITEMS
TWO BOX BACKPACK
- Brown tube frame with bent bottom to form a shelf
- Frame bent to approximately 15 degrees between boxes
- Olive or green shoulder straps
- Two boxes approximately 12 inches wide, 8 inches tall, and 5 1/2 inches deep
- Both boxes have raised “seam” around perimeter
- Top box has correct socket greeblie right of center, switch on ride side, and “handle” on top.
- Bottom box has correct greeblie left of center and socket greeblie on left side
- Camouflage* canvas cover has flap on top box with two snaps/rivets. Bottom flap has three snaps/rivets around greeblie
- Correct four-tube greeblie between boxes
- 3/4 inch black corrugated tube goes from right-most tube between boxes to bottom of pack
CLOTH BACKPACK
- Canvas drawstring backpack with two front pockets
- Upside-down scout trooper nose greeblie on top flap
- Rectangle greeblie on lower right flap
- May have 1-1.25 inch black corrugated hose from right pocket to top opening
- Original item is unknown so Czech Daypack is acceptable
WEB BANDOLIER
- 2 inch canvas webbing with 1 1/2 inch carriage loops on front
- May have carriage loops on back
- Accessories include:
- Cylindrical greeblies with domed top and bottom worn in carriage loops
- Hoth radio without antenna
- Hoth chest grenade on flat plate
WRIST COM
- Mounted on tan elastic with velcro closure
- Worn on left wrist
SQUARE RANK BADGE
- worn on center of either sleeve or left chest of vest
- worn on left chest of anorak
RECTANGULAR RANK BADGE
- Two circular details
- Worn on left chest of vest
- May be worn with square rank badge if they are the same height

*NOTE ON CAMOUFLAGE
- The Endor Rebel Trooper camouflage is the same color as Princess Leia’s, but differs from Luke and Han’s.
- Acceptable camouflage uses Tan base. If the base item is not tan, such as a white lab coat turned into a duster, it must be dyed tan first.
- Finished camouflage should show approximately 20% tan.
- Design Master Colortool Spray in the following colors (an equivalent is acceptable):
- Moss Green (heavy)
- Hunter Green (light)
- Basil (heavy – primary color)
- Olive Bright (small accents. Use sparingly)

REFERENCES
Hard Pack Tutorial: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90551
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Last edited by Niall () on Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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