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Future Elections: public vs. discreet nominations

 
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AgnesAUT ()
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject: Future Elections: public vs. discreet nominations Reply with quote

Inspired and motivated by the other recent thread regarding the election process, I want to bringt something up that comes across my mind basically every year with every election:
the nomination process which is public.

I think it might keep some people from nominating since it might make them feel uncomfortable having to expose themselves, doing it publicly and therefore "declaring" themselves.

I am aware that changing such a system would be a huge undertaking, given that others within the legion (members and command staff) see a "need" or opportunity for change at all.

I am curious if this is something that has came to mind to others at well, or that might even bother them!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see a lot of value in considering this. There don't seem to be a lot of downsides that I can see, and it WOULD introduce more equity into the process by removing the current barrier for folks with anxiety. If we created a nomination infrastructure that was available in multiple languages, it could also potentially improve equity in terms of making the process more accessible to non-English speakers. Obviously, it is something that couldn't be implemented in the current forum infrastructure, but if folks agreed it would be a good idea, it could be added to the design specs for new forums. It would need to be implemented in such a way that the staff verifying eligibility could still check who was doing the nominating (or at least verify that the person doing the nominating is eligible to do so) but I think that is a solvable problem.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with this. With the new translation team now doing an awesome job, language is no longer a barrier to most things on the forums. Transparency is very important in the Legion, and I see no need to hide anything about someone who will hold a public office.
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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amalphiea wrote:
I disagree with this. With the new translation team now doing an awesome job, language is no longer a barrier to most things on the forums.



With respect to our awesome new translation team, I don't think that's actually the case. Large portions of forums remain untranslated, including posts of high public interest, like answers to Q and A threads, due to lack of volunteers time and capacity. Additionally, our current system requires that each individual election post be translated each year - which, given the limitations previously mentioned, is going to ensure that some smaller election-related posts get missed. Now, of course, that aspect can be decoupled from visibility of nominators - a standardized nomination system where the translators only have to do the translation work once can still be created with the folks doing the nominating being visible. That is probably something for the web development team to consider as the new forums are designed.

Amalphiea wrote:
Transparency is very important in the Legion, and I see no need to hide anything about someone who will hold a public office.


So, I have been thinking about this a lot, and considering: what does seeing who nominated and seconded a candidate serve, in terms of public interest? Is it seeing whether the people who do the nominating are people whose judgement we personally trust? Is it seeing their geographic origins, or the number of posts on the forums? If so, is this respecting the spirit as well as the word of the rules against campaigning? Is it respecting the spirit of equality if we privilege the nominations of members we know over members we don't?

To be clear, I don't know the answers to these questions. I have actively participated in nominations in every election cycle since I joined the legion, and I admit, there have been times that I wondered if I was unfairly influencing my friends towards one candidate or another by being the one to publicly nominate them. But that doesn't automatically mean that the answer to that is yes, or that it's necessarily a bad thing if it is. The fact that it has been pointed out as a possible accessibility barrier, though, makes me think it's an idea worth exploring more thoroughly.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The translation team has only just been formed and begun translations, so not sure how they could have even been involved in translating anything else yet. The only thing so far has been the announcement from Bill.
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Baris_Alrisul ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amalphiea wrote:
The translation team has only just been formed and begun translations, so not sure how they could have even been involved in translating anything else yet. The only thing so far has been the announcement from Bill.


The translation team has been up and active since mid-November. Thanks to their hard work, we had multi-lingual versions of important announcements like Rebel Reads posts, Bill's message about conduct, etc. We are so lucky to have those volunteers working to make the legion more accessible! At the same time, posts like the answers and voting threads for the non-US CRC member never got translated, even though much of the non-US membership is also non-English-speaking. That isn't a failing on the translation team's part: there are only so many of them, and they only have so many hours to devote to the task. But it does emphasize the need for the new forums to have more standardized systems for things like nominations and voting, so we don't need as much translator availability for every election.

However, like I said, that is something that can totally be decoupled from the visibility issue. The idea of creating a more robust election infrastructure offers opportunities to address both concerns, but they are, in the end, two different things.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I understand the point here; do you want all nominations to be secret, so people can't see who is nominated for a post until elected or just wanting to hide 'seconds' and 'thirds'?
I'm thinking you can't mean you want it to be a secret who holds office in the RL, because that would cause some serious transparency issues, and personally I'd prefer to see who are volunteering before the volunteering period is over.
Just trying to understand what is meant here.
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AgnesAUT ()
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lora Skywalker wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the point here; do you want all nominations to be secret, so people can't see who is nominated for a post until elected or just wanting to hide 'seconds' and 'thirds'?
I'm thinking you can't mean you want it to be a secret who holds office in the RL, because that would cause some serious transparency issues, and personally I'd prefer to see who are volunteering before the volunteering period is over.
Just trying to understand what is meant here.


I apologise for the late reply, I totally "oversaw" this!

I mean descretion concerning who nominates (or seconds) whom.
It could simply state "person XY was nominated for office XY", without information by whom.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. Wanted to be sure I understood you correctly. Smile
I'm afraid that what you are asking for will not be possible on the current forum, but I don't know about the future forum. Perhaps? I don't have a problem with people seeing who nominates or seconds a person, but I recognize that people will hold different views on this.
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