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Black Lives Matter Support
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wabbit89 ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lora Skywalker wrote:
wabbit89 wrote:
Lora Skywalker wrote:
There's a lot of things here, and I don't think I've got anything to add right now, but I did want to address this issue:

Quote:
I've met members who were told because they're POC they can't costume "main" characters unless it matches their skin tone. That isn't right. We praise inclusivity (that is spelled wrong? I hate spelling) and then tell perspective members that?


As DXO of RLGS I just wanted to say that ANYONE can do ANY character they want, no matter what their skin color is, no matter what their gender is, no matter what their physical ability is!
Are most of the main characters white? Yes, they are. It doesn't matter. Do whatever character you want to do, not what others think you should do.
We absolutely want to see and welcome black, latina, first nation, heck, everyone to the legion and the detachment. Come join us. Be a black Leia or a crossplaying Padmé. It's all about the costume, not your skin color, hair color, your gender or sexual orientation. We promise we will welcome you in our detachment. Smile

Go out and ROCK whatever costume you want to! biker Dance Chewie rock pompom Guard


(P.s. The people saying you can't do a main character because of skin color are probably the same telling others not to do Jar Jar. To Byss with that! Do Jar Jar, too! Ahmed Best would approve).


Yaaaay to this! Thanks. I honestly didn't know the answer to this. Let's be fair, the canon isn't exactly diverse, so only bending allows for other races, etc. And I didn't know if it was OK or not. I'm glad to know it is.

Also, this post brings up an unrelated thing I've wondered about how to fix for a long time. See, I don't know what RLGS is. Or DXO, either. What do those stand for? There is a lot of alphabet soup here that is super intimidating to new members. I'm not a new member, and I still don't know what folks are talking about half the time. Not today's issue. At all. But seriously, the jargon (and the need to join a million groups) needs be streamlined or made to go away. If we want more and new and diverse members, let's make it easy for them to understand stuff. Just something to think on.

But I don't want to derail here.

Black Lives Matter.


I just saw no one else explained the DXO etc. so I thought I'd just quickly clear up the confusion. Smile

If you look to the left above my avatar and rank badge, you'll see 'Detachment XO' as my title. This is usually shortened to DXO. XO stands for 'Executive Officer'. So I'm the Detachment Executive Officer of the RLGS detachment.
Likewise there is a Commanding Officer aka CO. In the legion we have LCO (Legion Commanding Officer), DCO (Detachment Commanding Officer), BCO (Base Commanding Officer), and OCO (Outpost Commanding Officer). All of these have an Executive Officer as well, aka an XO.

RLGS stands for Rebel Legion Galactic Senate. All detachments have a short form that's an abbreviation of their full name. KJO, for example, is Knights of the Jedi Order, RLSC is Rebel Legion Starfighter Command, GSC is Galactic Strategic Command, and TWH is The Wretched Hive. Smile
I personally have references to my detachment in my signature, so that is another clue besides the rank under my forum name. Many other people do the same, so it can help you learn the different shortenings.
The shortenings are fairly standard with the CO and XO being the most used. Of course, it also helps if you know basic military jargon, but it's not really necessary.

Other good shortenings to know:
LCJ - Legion Costume Judge
LMO - Legion Membership Officer
BMO - Base Membership Officer
LPRO - Legion Public Relations Officer
LAC - Legion Administrative Council
RL - Rebel Legion

As far as I know all of these and more can be found in the charter, but I don't think we have a sticky anywhere with a full list of official shortenings used in the RL.

I hope that cleared things up for you. Smile (And anyone else who might have been confused).

You can go back to the topic now. Wink


It is important we do not become complicit in supporting racism or other forms of bigotry through silence and that we show everyone is welcome in our community. That has always been our goal and it is also in our charter where it says you cannot discriminate against people. Let us keep focus on that and show support for each other while we geek out over costumes. Smile


Thanks for taking the time. I've figured out many of the abbreviations through the years, but I still think there are waaaaaaaaay too many of them. Same with detachments and groups and etc, etc, etc. Heck, I never joined a detachment with my very first costume. Only found out last year it even belonged in one. (I did another in that group, and the line in my welcome email of "congratulations on your second detachment costume" puzzled me to no end for a while.) I personally just don't get detachments at all, and I find all the various groups tedious. And the alphabet soup is insane. Even if you figure out what an abbreviation means, it doesn't help you, because who the heck knows who that title even belongs to? But maybe that's just me. *shrug*

Anyway...thanks for taking the time and agreed on the rest. Silence is complicit.
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JediXXL (Gil Guemes)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrihn wrote:
To the leaders of Rebel Legion,

Regarding this particular matter, you do not speak for me.

I stand by these truths that are self-evident, that all men (=people; =mankind; =humans) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I do not support or endorse the organization that is Black Lives Matter.

Respectfully,
Erin



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Thorn_Korrd ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrihn wrote:
To the leaders of Rebel Legion,

Regarding this particular matter, you do not speak for me.

I stand by these truths that are self-evident, that all men (=people; =mankind; =humans) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I do not support or endorse the organization that is Black Lives Matter.

Respectfully,
Erin



We'll spoken.

I don't think we need slogans like BLM or any other whatever Disney or Lucasfilm say.
We would be better off staying away from all political matters and focus on our hobby in this club.
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Kensh Wi'Oak (Kenneth Shawver)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thorn_Korrd wrote:
Ayrihn wrote:
To the leaders of Rebel Legion,

Regarding this particular matter, you do not speak for me.

I stand by these truths that are self-evident, that all men (=people; =mankind; =humans) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I do not support or endorse the organization that is Black Lives Matter.

Respectfully,
Erin



We'll spoken.

I don't think we need slogans like BLM or any other whatever Disney or Lucasfilm say.
We would be better off staying away from all political matters and focus on our hobby in this club.



Thorn/Erin, both well stated as we need to keep these topics out of the club. Although new here, I believe that we need to be inclusive and since that is RL's stated position then we should not have to state it in any other way.

If we are inclusive, then ALL RL members should feel accepted and respected. We should not be pigeon-holing anyone based on any particular metric. We have a common reason for joining RL and that is the love of Star Wars. Looking at external aspects of anyone is counter-productive to the universe of hope and inclusiveness.
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Shrey ()
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe one day we will live in a world where we have truly dealt with these issues, but Star Wars itself has a diversity problem that is reflected in club membership and leadership. To have these discussions is important, and it is also important to recognize that the club exists in the real world. While yes, it is fake and in space and an escape for many, others encounter prejudice and insensitive comments both outside and within the club. How can we expect our BIPOC members to feel like this is a place they can enjoy a fun hobby if we're not even willing to acknowledge that there is a problem, let alone try to do something about it?

I don't think anyone is advocating that RL become some sort of political entity. But recognizing the issues our members face, undertaking a hard look and making positive changes within the club certainly is worth doing.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrey wrote:
Maybe one day we will live in a world where we have truly dealt with these issues, but Star Wars itself has a diversity problem that is reflected in club membership and leadership. To have these discussions is important, and it is also important to recognize that the club exists in the real world. While yes, it is fake and in space and an escape for many, others encounter prejudice and insensitive comments both outside and within the club. How can we expect our BIPOC members to feel like this is a place they can enjoy a fun hobby if we're not even willing to acknowledge that there is a problem, let alone try to do something about it?

I don't think anyone is advocating that RL become some sort of political entity. But recognizing the issues our members face, undertaking a hard look and making positive changes within the club certainly is worth doing.


Well said.
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Yub-Yub ()
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrey wrote:
Maybe one day we will live in a world where we have truly dealt with these issues, but Star Wars itself has a diversity problem that is reflected in club membership and leadership. To have these discussions is important, and it is also important to recognize that the club exists in the real world. While yes, it is fake and in space and an escape for many, others encounter prejudice and insensitive comments both outside and within the club. How can we expect our BIPOC members to feel like this is a place they can enjoy a fun hobby if we're not even willing to acknowledge that there is a problem, let alone try to do something about it?

I don't think anyone is advocating that RL become some sort of political entity. But recognizing the issues our members face, undertaking a hard look and making positive changes within the club certainly is worth doing.


In this club I have withness racism faced discrimination and my wife was sexually harassed.
What changes specifically do you think need to be changed?

feel free to PM me
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Thorn_Korrd ()
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is plain wrong to align yourself with a slogan like BLM, because pointing out a "color" or other property that supposedly matters is racism in itself.
What about red, yellow, white lives?
Don't they matter?

Just because a very vocal minority demands something, it is pointless to jump on the bandwagon and issue statements and whatnot supporting them.
Also, I am quite positive that stating "we support xyz" is a lie to begin with as in the "we" you will always have a number of people who do not support xyz for whatever reason.

I stand by what I said: it is best to abstain from political issues for the benefit of all members of the RL.
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Last edited by Thorn_Korrd () on Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JediXXL (Gil Guemes)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



That's all I'm going to say about that.
If you have a problem with that statement, you may want to ask yourself why that is.

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Shrey ()
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In this club I have withness racism faced discrimination and my wife was sexually harassed.
What changes specifically do you think need to be changed?


I am not on LC so I don't know all the specifics of what does or doesn't happen at that level. Earlier in the thread, the idea of a diversity panel was floated, which might be a good interim measure to get more perspectives into the leadership circle.

I also think it is often easier for those in charge (not just in the clubs, everywhere) to work to not rock the boat rather than towards a just conclusion. If not already done, a clear policy of how complaints need to be handled and taken up the chain, and a maintained documented "HR file" at Legion level so patterns can be tracked would be helpful. I have certainly seen situations of "he said, she said" end with, "well, that's just how so-and-so is and he didn't mean anything", which becomes harder to say if there are multiple similar complaints about so-and-so. I understand that often it is subjective rather than objective as far as what anyone's intent is and there is always the possibility that someone is working to discredit someone else through a false allegation, but the "hope it goes away" method almost always works in the favor of bad actors and discourages good people that the clubs should be striving to maintain (there is a limited amount of people in this world that are going to be attracted to charity costuming -- bad actors can sour the experience for numerous others).

I certainly don't have the answers for such a complex issue, but there is always room for self-reflection and growth. I love getting to be a big nerd for charity and love being a part of RL and we do some amazing things. But that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve. I certainly hope next election period stimulates some good discussion on these issues.

Quote:
I stand by what I said: it is best to abstain from political issues for the benefit of all members of the RL.


I don't think "not all people are being treated equally and we think that should change" is really a political statement, although unfortunately the current toxic political climate is polarizing what should be a simple statement. The point isn't that any particular lives should be elevated over others-- the whole point is that some lives are not valued as others and that needs to change.

There's no way RL is going to speak for every member's opinion as there are way too many people with way too many perspectives, but Star Wars costuming doesn't come with some space wizard magic that makes all real world issues go away. It's nice if people are able to enter complete fantasy escape with it, but that's simply not true for everyone. I'm personally not a fan of not rocking the boat just because that's how it's been and it's comfortable for those not being affected.

The original issue here was RL decided to make a middle-of-the-road general statement initially, rather than no statement or a strong statement. I don't think anyone is advocating that RL make regular statements on current events.

I'm really interested in seeing where we go now. A statement without any action is just words.
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Yub-Yub ()
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrey wrote:
Quote:
In this club I have withness racism faced discrimination and my wife was sexually harassed.
What changes specifically do you think need to be changed?


I am not on LC so I don't know all the specifics of what does or doesn't happen at that level. Earlier in the thread, the idea of a diversity panel was floated, which might be a good interim measure to get more perspectives into the leadership circle.

I also think it is often easier for those in charge (not just in the clubs, everywhere) to work to not rock the boat rather than towards a just conclusion. If not already done, a clear policy of how complaints need to be handled and taken up the chain, and a maintained documented "HR file" at Legion level so patterns can be tracked would be helpful. I have certainly seen situations of "he said, she said" end with, "well, that's just how so-and-so is and he didn't mean anything", which becomes harder to say if there are multiple similar complaints about so-and-so. I understand that often it is subjective rather than objective as far as what anyone's intent is and there is always the possibility that someone is working to discredit someone else through a false allegation, but the "hope it goes away" method almost always works in the favor of bad actors and discourages good people that the clubs should be striving to maintain (there is a limited amount of people in this world that are going to be attracted to charity costuming -- bad actors can sour the experience for numerous others).

I certainly don't have the answers for such a complex issue, but there is always room for self-reflection and growth. I love getting to be a big nerd for charity and love being a part of RL and we do some amazing things. But that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve. I certainly hope next election period stimulates some good discussion on these issues.

Quote:
I stand by what I said: it is best to abstain from political issues for the benefit of all members of the RL.


I don't think "not all people are being treated equally and we think that should change" is really a political statement, although unfortunately the current toxic political climate is polarizing what should be a simple statement. The point isn't that any particular lives should be elevated over others-- the whole point is that some lives are not valued as others and that needs to change.

There's no way RL is going to speak for every member's opinion as there are way too many people with way too many perspectives, but Star Wars costuming doesn't come with some space wizard magic that makes all real world issues go away. It's nice if people are able to enter complete fantasy escape with it, but that's simply not true for everyone. I'm personally not a fan of not rocking the boat just because that's how it's been and it's comfortable for those not being affected.

The original issue here was RL decided to make a middle-of-the-road general statement initially, rather than no statement or a strong statement. I don't think anyone is advocating that RL make regular statements on current events.

I'm really interested in seeing where we go now. A statement without any action is just words.


when you really get down to the bottom of it holding people accountable is not as difficult as one might seem until you get into the minutia.

The reason I made my comment is because posting that you are against racism and actually standing up to racism are 2 different things, especially when it involves standing against a friend or if your position hinders on who you upset or don't upset. And that's where this club as well as the other star wars clubs fail.

A members rights in this club, whether they be a POC, a woman, trans, LGBTQ, etc.. hinders on whether they are popular or if they have a good reputation. That's where these clubs(including RL) fail.

Thats why adding a new position such as the diversity officer/panel doesnt work in any of these clubs, the leaders pick their friends. It gives the illusion of progress and action when in actuality it just adds another position of power that will support the status quo.

My suggestion:
We need to hold members accountable for what they say on FB when it pertains to Legion business, especially when some one is targeted. The bad stuff usually doesn't happen here on the boards, it happens on social media.

If an LCOG witnesses bullying on social media and charges are brought from the person bullied, the LCOG should not recuse themselves but instead act as witness to what they saw. That should pertain to the officers as well. If they see something they need to hold members accountable.
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Thorn_Korrd ()
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand why one would turn to a board or Minority Officer or whatever in a club when it comes to things that should be handled by your country's legal system.
If you feel you're being bullied, harrassed, abused, assaulted etc. go get a lawyer and drag the perp to court.
I'd not count on a club to protect my rights.
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Yub-Yub ()
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thorn_Korrd wrote:
I don't understand why one would turn to a board or Minority Officer or whatever in a club when it comes to things that should be handled by your country's legal system.
If you feel you're being bullied, harrassed, abused, assaulted etc. go get a lawyer and drag the perp to court.
I'd not count on a club to protect my rights.


Why is it the members country legal system's job to enforce the rules of the club and enforce the members rights?

Rebel legion members do have rights, we have a charter. according to the charter:

Quote:
The Rebel Legion is an inclusive, equal opportunity fan club. The Legion will not discriminate members on the basis of sex, race, religion, creed, nationality, sexual orientation, age (as long as the minimum age of at least 18 years or higher if required by local law has been reached), or physical handicap. The Legion also will not tolerate any type of discrimination amongst its members.


If its the responsibility of the police or the responsibility of the member to take it to court then why do we have LCOGS? why do we have an LCO and LXO? Why do we have a council?

If the club isnt going to protect the members from discrimination of any kind then saying that the club stands with /supports BLM is more dangerous then if the club said nothing at all because it gives POC a false sense of security just like it gives any of its members a false sense of security.
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Thorn_Korrd ()
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a non-American member of the club living in a non-American country, the Charta doesn't mean anything when it comes to my legally protected rights.

There has been mentioned cases of discrimination, harrassment and whatnot.
Over here, if you're the victim of such an act, you don't talk to your CO, but go straight to the authorities who will investigate the case and take it from there.
It's just the way it is.

If you become a member of an organisation like the RL, you may be well advised to find out how that organisation or at least the national chapter is perceived according to the law of your country.
You might be surprised when you find out that the Charta doesn't do you any good in most cases as it can never stand above your country's laws.

By the way: if something like harrassment turns into something like sexual violence and you're part of the club's board who has brushed your member's claims aside as hysterical or if you act against a member who's been wrongly accused out of maliciousness or something, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when this gets taken to court.
See if your Charta protects you then. Lucasfilms or Disney ain't gonna send their top legal dog in your support.

All good reasons to stay away from as many trip wires as possible.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thorn_Korrd wrote:
I think it is plain wrong to align yourself with a slogan like BLM, because pointing out a "color" or other property that supposedly matters is racism in itself.
What about red, yellow, white lives?
Don't they matter?

Just because a very vocal minority demands something, it is pointless to jump on the bandwagon and issue statements and whatnot supporting them.
Also, I am quite positive that stating "we support xyz" is a lie to begin with as in the "we" you will always have a number of people who do not support xyz for whatever reason.

I stand by what I said: it is best to abstain from political issues for the benefit of all members of the RL.


Several things I would like to say, I’m unsure if it’s a ‘lost in translation’ or misunderstood sentence. But referring to Asian or Indigenous communities as ‘red or yellow’ is outdated at best and insensitive or disrespectful at worst. I also don’t believe recognising that people of different backgrounds Will experience the world differently, is inherently a form of racism. Recognising that people of different races face different issues in some respects, means we can challenge those specific issues, and deal with them in the best way possible. The same way a man and a woman will walk through life differently, so will people of colour compared to white people, in a country where they are the minority. It isn’t directly problematic to recognise that people need different support systems based on who they are. Intersectionality is really important.

Secondly I don’t believe it is a vocal minority who would have wanted us to show support for very serious issues facing many of our members. I believe if people fully understood the statement and reasoning behind ‘black lives matter’, they would see why it is necessary.

Third, we do, mostly, abstain from political issues. However supporting communities who are facing hardship, I don’t believe is a political issue. I believe it is more a moral one.

I have no interest in arguing or being confrontational for no reason, however I do believe some people need to examine internal biases they may have, what is it about saying ‘black lives matter’ specifically that is upsetting? Why is that, truly? Why does pride month/4th of July/essential workers postings not illicit the same reaction.

I personally believe it’s because a lot of us aren’t ready to challenge the biases that we have or that the Star Wars community has as a whole, and being faced with the fact that we have some more work to do, is uncomfortable. But we have to push through it to be better for all.
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