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Revised A-Wing (RotJ) standards

 
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Dr. Morbius (Ingo Kaiser)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: Revised A-Wing (RotJ) standards Reply with quote

A-WING PILOT (ROTJ)

1.Flight Suit:

REQUIRED:

• Green colored flight suit (Lincoln green, Forest Green, dark Green or similar green color), Olive Drab, Kelly Green or greens that show a predominance of blue should not be acceptable.
• Flight suit has a folding style collar (club type), with a rectangular closure tab closing to wearer’s left side. Closure tab may be pointed (chevron).
• Left arm has a pocket 2-3 inches below shoulder. 3 layers including a base, a layer that has two channel pockets and an upper layer with the same two channel pockets. The over-all pocket is tilted between 15-40 degrees towards the front. All layers have a double stitch around the edges. With the channels being the only openings. Original was a bellow type pocket but bellow type is optional.
• Thigh pockets with rectangular flap closures.
• No other pockets. Especially Commpad pocket, code cylinder pocket and pocket on right arm are not allowed.
• No visible zippers or snaps, zipper cover has a female opening (attached on wearer’s right side) of the suit.

OPTIONAL:

• Left arm pocket may be bellow type and/or may have rounded lower edges.
• Rectangular application on shoulders from edge of shoulder to almost the collar.
• Trapezoidal applications/fake pockets on left and right side of chest running down to the belt section.
• Rectangular application on the sides of the legs visible half on the front and half on the back.


2. Gaiters/Spats:

REQUIRED:

• Gaiters are identical to B-Wing and Y-Wing pieces.
• A centered double rib should run down the front of the gaiter with a small separation between them. A aprox. 1" black backpack buckle should be sewn to the spat/gator at the top just on the outside of the ribs. A 1/2-3/4" strap, made of the same material, should run the circumference of the gaiter and should be at the top of the back and run approximately 3" down on the front of the spat/gator. Appropriate material should be a light tan canvas or similar weight material. Leather is not acceptable.
• The gaiters’ height should be above mid-calf to just under the knee.

3. Boots:

REQUIRED:

• Boots should be mid-calf black boots (Jak boots or engineer boots are acceptable)
• Leather pull-on style preferred with low heels.
• No laces or ankle buckles
• No non-black zippers. Any zipper closure must be either hidden or on the inside calf.
• No zippers on front or outside of calf of boots.
• High-Calf and Low-Calf boots are acceptable if fully covered by the Gaiters.

OPTIONAL:

• small buckle at top edge of boot (Original German 60’s Jackboots used in the film) may be used if covered by blousing or gaiters.

4. Belt:

REQUIRED:

• Belt is white, or naturally colored (off white) aprox. 2" webbing/belt strap.
• Buckle is a black snap-release buckle and is on the back of the belt.
• Along the front of the belt is a piece of belt material. the material is stitched to the belt. It has two triangles stitched into it with black thread. The apex of the triangles should face the center of the belt material overlay (that is they are almost on their sides).
• Along the right side of the belt, are 8 mini-flare loops. Can be filled with any number between 3 and 8. Mini-flares may be used in aluminium or metal colored wood.


5. Ejection Harness:

REQUIRED:

• The ejection harness is one piece of the same aprox. 2” wide webbing that is folded in the middle and attached to the flak vest. It runs down in two equally long pieces between the belt and the extra piece of belt material with the triangle stitchings.
• The loops for each leg are approximately knee height with a silver colored slide. The loops should not have any visible excess strapping after the slides.


6. Flak Vest:

REQUIRED:

• Accurately styled scoop-necked grey, grey-brown or naturally colored woolfelt or similar type material flak vest.
• vest is made out of 1 piece.
• A small black (aprox. 1 inch wide) plastic snap-release is attached with next to no visible webbing to the vest at about the same height as the lower edge of the flightsuits closure tab.
• Aprox. 1 inch wide straps run from buckles down the front and attach to the chestbox.
• On the front is a white/off-white “bib” section made from ballistic nylon or similar coarse weaved synthetic material. The shape of this section is the same as the front. It has a seem running around the edge, a rib aprox. 1/4 inch from the top and bottom and a seam running along the middle at the top of the wings.
• On the outer right wing of the white material should be an accurate circular disc greebly. It is aprox. 2" in diameter. Consisting of raised quarters with hex head nuts and a lower center portion. It is colored with the raised portions being the same color.
• The back and front side-pieces are connected by hidden velcro along the sides under the arms, where the front panel lies over the back panel.


6. Chest Box:

REQUIRED:


• Accurately styled black chest box with accurate ribs and circuit board.
• Accurately shaped lower soft round chest box piece, covered in white/off-white cloth.
• A white dome is attached to this piece with a white/off-white 1 inch strap going around the lower chest box piece.
• A white gathered cloth covered hose is attached to the bottom of the dome piece and is tucked away on the flight suit or under the belt.


7. Gloves:

REQUIRED:

• Black gauntlet-style gloves (flared leather or pleather preferred, cloth or rubber gloves are not acceptable) without any buckles straps or decorative stitching.

OPTIONAL:

• Black gauntlet-style gloves may have 3 straight lines of seams on the back of the hand.


8. Soft Helmet

REQUIRED:

• Cloth tan AN-H-15 flight cap/helmet (or replica).


Modified: Optional Accessories
1. A-Wing hard helmet with Star Wars style decorations OR
2. Y-Wing helmet with Star Wars style decorations OR
3. X-Wing helmet with Star Wars style decorations OR
5. Black belt box/comm box that attaches that to the left side of the belt.
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Last edited by Dr. Morbius (Ingo Kaiser) on Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an excellent start, but I'm thinking the references to other costumes (ex: Thigh pockets are same as X-wing thigh pockets) should be dropped in favor of more detail. We can't assume that the reader is familiar with the other costume standard.
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Dr. Morbius (Ingo Kaiser)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snap616 wrote:
This is an excellent start, but I'm thinking the references to other costumes (ex: Thigh pockets are same as X-wing thigh pockets) should be dropped in favor of more detail. We can't assume that the reader is familiar with the other costume standard.


That can be easily fixed Smile
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Dr. Morbius (Ingo Kaiser)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fixed. Any X-Wing references were removed.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good so far. A few thoughts, though...

-The strap on the gaiters has a square or rectangular stitch on the front center.

-You didn't mention how the straps should be sewn onto the back of the gaiters. There are two ways seen in ROTJ... Some gaiters have the ends of the straps stitched into the back seam of the gaiters, other gaiters on characters have the ends of the straps simply layered one over the other and sewn flat over the back seam.

-I don't think I'd list the buckles on the boots as an "optional" item, it makes it sound like buckles are accurate. Instead, when describing the boot, perhaps just mention that if the boot has buckles, any buckles over the foot must be removed and any at the top of the shaft need to be covered by blousing the legs of the suit over them.

-The buckle on the belt (and the 1" buckles on the flak vest) are called "side release buckles". Snap buckles I think are, technically, any type of buckle that snaps closed and has to be pressed to be opened, even center-release buckles. Calling them "snap release buckles" may be confusing to applicants.

-The flight cap probably shouldn't be required. If the helmet isn't required the flight cap probably shouldn't be either. The flight cap should be optional, but it should be required if the applicant has an A-wing pilot helmet. That is, they shouldn't wear the helmet without the cap.
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Dr. Morbius (Ingo Kaiser)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny Alex that you are picking on all the things that you approved when Robert made an update. I‘ve reused most of what he had already written down...could have said that back then don‘t you agree?
The buckles on the belt ARE ACCURATE as they used the same German Jackboots as the Imperials and there you see the buckles in many instances. The Rebels merely bloused the suits over them or hid them under the gaiters.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Morbius wrote:
Funny Alex that you are picking on all the things that you approved when Robert made an update. I‘ve reused most of what he had already written down...could have said that back then don‘t you agree?
The buckles on the belt ARE ACCURATE as they used the same German Jackboots as the Imperials and there you see the buckles in many instances. The Rebels merely bloused the suits over them or hid them under the gaiters.
What's with the hostility? I wasn't attacking you. Why can other people leave feedback but I can't? Calm down.

Robert's post was a few years ago, I don't remember any of it,

That said, the boot buckles... It's moot anyway, isn't it, considering the fact that the gaiters would cover the buckles? Other than that, I was just giving you the correct name for the belt and vest buckles so there aren't people submitting costumes with the center release buckles and wondering why they're being asked to change them, and you didn't mention how the straps should be attached to the back of the gaiters so I brought it up. And I didn't see any reason to require the cap as it is, essentially, akin to a helmet in the way of costuming, and if helmets aren't required it seemed logical that the cap wouldn't be required, either, and would just be optional.

I'm sorry if you didn't want any feedback on your proposal. Getting feedback here on proposed standards is all part of the process, and posting this here I figured you were looking for more feedback and ideas. You're under no obligation to change anything that I mentioned and you're free to ignore what I said, I was only trying to be helpful. I meant no offense. Sheesh.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need images for this to move forward.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pagil M'gar wrote:
We need images for this to move forward.


I have my vector flight suits ready.

I just need some help getting the suits more refined for consideration.
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Dr. Morbius (Ingo Kaiser)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pagil M'gar wrote:
We need images for this to move forward.


I can send you images of all my parts, no problem
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made the revised A-wing standards right after the costume book came out and it was buried. In it it has links to pocket pictures and color codes for the costume. I really appreciate Dr. Morbius picking this up. I gave up on getting it approved. I have images of anybody is interested also I have the detailed chest box.

Peace
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carly's been lighting a fire on Facebook about these revisions, and I came up with some stuff myself based on some mental notes and stuff that I had discussed with Mr. Nelson (Paleosilex)... he deserves a lot of credit for the suit and chest box bits that I mention. I forgot that we had this thread going already, but here are my change proposals. I'll first list the current standard, then my ideas for changes.

NOTE: A WHOLE LOT of pictures will have to accompany the revision... this will cut down on the constant questions and reposts of the same info, across multiple threads.

Anyway....


1. THE SUIT
CURRENT STANDARD: Spruce/Hunter Green flightsuit (no Kelly/Olive Drab/Grass Green) with mandarin-style collar (with squared tab) or same tabbed collar under another flipped up collar
*Correct arm pockets (shaped code cylinder pocket on upper left arm
*Rectangular pocket with a squared-flap closure on upper right arm), and thigh pockets with squared-flap closures (upper set required, lower set optional)
*No visible zippers or snaps

PROPOSED STANDARD: Hunter or dark green flight suit with correct pockets and reinforcements. Spruce-green coverall conversions are NO LONGER accepted for new submissions. The fabric should be a twill or solid medium-weight fabric, and pocket and reinforcing seams should be double-stitched around edges (ala blue jeans).
*Collar has rounded edges, and can either be worn flipped down, or up with keeper tab underneath to close.
*Zipper is hidden by a placket, and the opening SHOULD open towards the left (traditionally female), but can optionally open to the right.
*Left upper arm has a small, layered "pen" pocket. It is angled at a roughly 75-degree angle, centered on the upper arm. The bottom/outer pocket is rounded on the bottom edges, 6-7" long and 5" wide. The middle & top pieces should be about 3"x4.5", with both made each with 2 slots for pens or similar devices (NOTE: A-wing pilots do NOT use the code cylinders found on orange X-wing pilots).
*Yoke seam along top chest... optional for back.
*Angled reinforcing panels stitched to the upper body, between yoke seam and waist. These can also have the option of being turned into hidden slash pockets, leaving the seams on the sides open.
*Elastic draw around waist.
*Large cargo pockets, one on each upper leg. These are patch type, sewn flat to the leg, with a flat rectangular flap. These should measure 7-8" wide, 9-10" long, depending on size of suit.
*Lower-leg reinforcing panels, one on each leg. These are trapezoid shaped panels, with the small narrow point (about 4" wide) stitched right above the knee, and the bottom part stitched into the leg seams, covering the whole lower front leg.
*Arm cuffs (about 1.5" wide) should have a draw closure similar to the X-wing, with velcro and pointed ends.
*Leg cuffs should be open with plain cuff.
*No visible zippers or snaps.


2. GAITERS/LEGGINGS
CURRENT STANDARD: Light Tan, Beige, or Taupe cloth or canvas spats over black boots
Leather spats are not acceptable
Spat height should be mid-calf to just under the knee and fall all the way down
Spats should feature an additional strap (w/no buckle) of the same or similar material, running around the length around the calf approximately 1/8-1/4 down from the top of the spat
Spats may feature single or double seam running down the front or back
No laces should be visible

PROPOSED STANDARD:
One pair of lower-leg coverings about 12-14" long (depending on wearer's height), made of a tight-woven material, vinyl, or similar. The color should be light tan or pale beige, with liberal weathering encouraged. Each gaiter is constructed in two halves, or with one piece that wraps around and comes together in the front. The front edges are padded (about 3/8"/1cm) and have a small gap down the center. The bottom edges should be angled to sit over the top of the boots, and ride about 1" above the bottom of the heel. The top is even all around.
*Length depends on wearer's height, but should start just below the knee. Normal length, roughly 12-14".
*A 1 to 1-1/4" wide strap, made from the same material as the gaiters, wraps around each legging at a slight angle, with the lower part about 3" from the top edge, and the higher part attached to the back about 2" from the top. A metal or metal-like slide buckle is mounted center-back.
*A 3/4" black plastic side-release buckle is mounted vertically and flat just to the side of the front edge, about 1". This will be on the right side for the right gaiter, and left for the left gaiter, and mounted between the top edge and the strap. (This is purely a decorative "greeblie", just tacked down to the surface.)
*No other visible buckles, snaps, or other closures.
NOTE: It is recommended to attach the leggings to the legs of the suit via velcro, snaps, magnets, etc to keep them from moving around or falling off.


3. BOOTS
CURRENT STANDARD: Boots should be mid-calf black boots (Jack boots or engineer boots are acceptable
Leather pull-on style preferred with low heels
No laces
No ankle buckles (small buckle at top edge of boot allowable if covered by blousing)
No non-black zippers. Any zipper closure must either be hidden or on the inside calf
No zippers on front or outside calf of boots
High-Calf and Low-Calf boots are acceptable if fully covered by the spats

PROPOSED STANDARD: Any kind of black leather or leather-like boots with rounded toe, and no visible laces, buckles, straps, or zippers. The boots may have such closures above ankle-height, as long as the gaiters will fully cover them.


4. BELT
CURRENT STANDARD: Belt may be off-white and is to buckle at the front or back with a black snap-release buckle

PROPOSED STANDARD: The belt is made of 2” white webbing, the same as the ejection straps.
*A short section of 2” white webbing is layered over the front center of the belt, with two black triangle safety stitches that point inward.
*Six flare loops made of 1” white webbing off to the wearer’s right side of the belt. At least 3 mini-flares (metal or painted dowel rods) be mounted in the flare loops.
*2” black plastic or metal side-release buckle on the BACK of the belt.


4B: EJECTION STRAPS:
CURRENT STANDARD: Leg loops are individual per leg and split at the waist. Belt is worn over the harness

PROPOSED STANDARD: Both straps are made of 2" white webbing, same as the belt.
*Constructed as one large loop, with one end stitched around the center of a thin metal 2" slide buckle, and the other end coming together with the other strap end and both attached under the bottom of the vest (can be attached permanently or via velcro, snaps, etc). The leg loops are formed by passing the long end through the slide buckle. The leg loops should hang freely around the knees of the wearer.
*When worn, the ejection straps are UNDER the belt in the front, roughly at the wearer's belly level.


5. FLAK VEST:
CURRENT STANDARD: Accurately styled scoop-necked charcoal/dark grey cloth or canvas flak vest with smaller white front section bib applied over it.
White section should have appropriate ribbing- one above chestbox, 2 below (separated from each other by a gap). This is NOT a duplicate of the X-wing vest
Small black plastic snap-release buckles on the shoulder straps
Side strapping should be white and 1.5″ – 2″ wide
Shoulder strapping should match front and back panel material
Back panel is smaller and differently shaped than the front but should match front panel material

PROPOSED STANDARD: The flak vest is made of a light or medium gray wool or heavy felt with fibers of various colors (such as a disaster relief blanket). The wool/felt should be heavy, and not easily stretch or wrinkle (This could also be accomplished by reinforcing the back).
*The front is shaped roughly like a trapezoid, with narrow bits that extend out and form the shoulder (about 2.5-3" wide) & side straps about 3.5-4" wide). The back is similarly-shaped, taller, but also has narrow bits that form the shoulder and side straps. The shoulder straps and vest front & back should all be one piece, but the sides can be split and held together via velcro, snaps, etc (as long as the closures are hidden). NOTE: white webbing on the sides is NOT allowed... only on B-wing vests (which were initially confused in screen shots).
*A white cloth panel is stitched to the front, in a similar shape as the trapezoidal front part of the vest. It is top-stitched to the front with black thread, with detail parallel stitch lines along the top and bottom. NOTE: X-wing style ribbing using tubing is NOT used on A-wing vests.
*The female end of a 1" black plastic slide buckle is mounted to each shoulder strap part of the vest, roughly 2-3" from the top line of the shoulder. These connect to the chest box hanging straps.
*A 2" diameter gray disc-shaped greeblie is mounted to the right side of the vest, on top of the bottom-right corner of the white panel.


6/7. CHEST BOX:
CURRENT STANDARD: Accurately styled black upper chest box with accurate ribbing details and black straps
7. Accurately shaped white lower chest box (hard or soft) with white cloth-covered hose coming out of the bottom and connecting to flightsuit. This box should be directly under the upper box, with no gap between.

PROPOSED STANDARD (Both as one piece): A solid, black, rectangular box with trapezoidal sides, roughly 7" wide, 2" deep, and 5" long. Also featuring:
*2 hanging straps made of 1" black webbing, attached to male ends of 1" side-release buckles. These hook into the buckles mounted on the vest.
*5 "vanes" along each side
*A square "greeblie" panel on front-bottom-center, with electrical capacitors and resistors mounted squarely for detail.
*Properly-shaped greeblies on the top and sides, also painted black to match the box.
*A single, cylindrical piece extending out from the right-bottom, also painted black to match the box.
*A cylindrical-shaped cloth "bag" made of plain white cloth is attached to the bottom of the box, with a 1" white web strap around its middle to hold a solid white funnel-shaped piece. This white funnel can be used to attach to the cloth-wrapped hose, or mounted directly behind it to the cylindrical cloth "bag".
*The cloth-wrapped hose is made from scrunching up a long tube of plain white cloth around a rubber hose, thick rope, etc. The hose should be long enough to hang down along the wearer's left leg, a few inches above the knee. The loose end is then tucked back up under the left side of the vest.


8. GLOVES:
CURRENT STANDARD: Black gauntlet-style gloves (flared leather or pleather preferred, cloth or rubber gloves will not meet standards)

GOOD.... keep same



FORMAL REQUIREMENTS (CURRENT STANDARD)
1. A-Wing hard helmet with Star Wars-style decoration
2. Cloth tan AN-H-15 flight helmet (or replica)

3. Y-Wing helmet with Star Wars-style decoration

4. X-Wing helmet with Star Wars-style decoration

5. Mini-flares on web belt – a mix of filled and empty slots are okay

6. Accurate Comm Pad (size, details, 3-dimensional, coloration, etc.) visible in the correct comm pad pocket on outside left forearm above wrist

PROPOSAL: Do away with this "formal" category altogether. I would list some of these as optional, some obsolete, some now required:

NEW STANDARD REQUIRED:
9. AH-H-15 Flight Cap: Bare minimum required for headgear. This is a WWII-era cloth flight cap, khaki in color, with rubber ear cups and snaps along the cheeks (originally to attach the oxygen mask). Worn as the basis for all A-wing, B-wing, and Y-wing pilots from RotJ, under the solid helmet. Originals or accurate reproductions are accepted.

NEW OPTIONAL/ENCOURAGED:
10. Solid A-wing Flight Helmet: Accurately shaped "bucket", with movie-accurate or Star Wars style paint and markings. Also:
*Leather or leather-like padding around the inside edge of bottom half
*Proper greeblies and wiring. NOTE: There have been several styles and combinations of greeblies identified... see examples.

11. BELT BOX: An old Motorola "Pageboy" pager, painted black and clipped to the left side of the belt. This can be scratch-made, as long as it is about 5" tall, 2.5" wide, and 1" deep, and with proper screen detail and red button on the top.

OPTIONAL:
X-wing or Y-wing (OT) Helmets: seen worn by extras walking around in the hangar on Home One in RotJ.

Rebel Sidearm: Never seen on screen on A-wing pilots, but allowed. Should stick to Alliance-appropriate blaster pistols such as the DL-44 or DH-17, with matching holster.

NO LONGER ALLOWED:
Comm-pads
Code cylinders
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to shift this over to "In Progress" until it's fully ready for proposal approval. Thanks all and let's get this rolling again!
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